I'm starting to dislike Canons

[Aharami]

I've been a Canon fanboy all my life but I've started to disliking Canons recently. They price their cameras too high, care more about the mpixel race than retaining IQ, and dont really listen to their customers. Actually my dislike started when I read about the specs for S5IS. Every single S2/S3 owner HATES their EVF. You'd think with all these negative comments, Canon would upgrade the EVF on the S5. But nope...still same EVF. S5 uses the same size chip as the S3 but with 2 more mpixels crammed in. That will definitely add more noise and give worse IQ. It seems like they are holding the S5 back because they care more about selling their DSLR+Lenses which means more money for them. But what about for people who specifically dont want a SLR (not saying that's me, but buying a XTi + lenses is a much more $$$ proposition for me than a decent all-in-one camera like S3)?

Then recently I started looking for an ultracompact for my gf. Natually I went toward canon and started reading up on SD800IS. It has cool features like IS and a wide angle lens (28-105mm) when the other cameras in its class starts at 35mm. But then dpreview complained about corner softness at its widest angle. I checked out the sample pics and results are atrocious! Then I came across the Fuji F31fd. Yea it doesnt have IS like the Canon, and isnt as "cute" (cuteness matters for a girl's camera) as the canon but I liked what I read about the camera and ordered it. Been playing with it for a week, comparing it to my S3 (yea yea, i know...different class) but im blown away by what the little fuji can do. I mean it doesnt come close to matching all the manual controls my S3 has, but F31 is better at low light than the S3, even with S3's IS on. Also the Fuji blows the S3 away at higher ISO shots. Quite impressive to say the least. Plus the F31 was a good $100 cheaper than the SD800IS (with the fuji $30 rebate).

I havent done much research in the SLR market, so I cant really comment about that. But it seems like other brands are coming out with comparable SLRs for cheaper than Canon.

 

[GTaudiophile]

I too am I Canon fanboi and respect your comments.

I have heard a few good things lately about the Fuji P&S cams and their superiority in low light. That said, I just bought my GF the SD700IS, and from what I've seen after playing with it, it's a great little camera for her needs. It only has a 6.1 MPX sensor, but it's the same size as the one on the SD800IS. Not only was the SD700IS cheaper but I figured on less-noisier photos at higher ISOs.

But as far as their DSLR market, I would say Canon did indeed listen to their customers with the EOS 1D-Mark III. I think it has some awesome features. The question is whether or not some of those features will trickle down to the "Prosumer" bodies. I expect the new EOS-40D to be something pretty special. If you think about the XTi having more MPX and anti-dust technology and the 1D-MkIII having all of its features, I would say the 40D is ripe for a significant upgrade. Time will tell.

But yes, Canon is a bit arrogant IMO. Nikon makes cheaper, better bodies for the low and mid-range market segment. But at the end of day, I read stories every day of people switching from Nikon to Canon for Canon's "L" glass. Canon is really well entrenched in this respect. And despite ever-increasing competition from Sigma and Tamron, Canon doesn't appear to flinch. If they did, they would produce a new EF 30 F1.4 USM and price it at $400 or less. But no, they don't update their primes. Now, for years Canon fans screamed for an IS version of the famous 70-200 F4L, and in the end, they get their wish but for a $500 premium. Is IS worth $500? No. Are people selling the non-IS 70-200 4L lenses in droves for the new IS version? Yes, many are. Strange how that works but Canon is making money hand over fist. Instead of updating their $300 EF 50 F1.4, what does Canon do? They release a $1500 EF 50 F1.2L that gets mediocre reviews. Go figure!

I know many are screaming for Canon to introduce in-camera IS for their DSLR bodies. Do I think they will? Heck no! Then why pay the $500 premium for their IS lenses? Canon is first and foremost a money making company and they will do what is best for their bottom line irrespective of what customers want at the end of the day. Heck, I want a $1500 weather-sealed Full-Frame DSLR to replace the EOS-30D but that won't happen as it would kill sales for the $2800 EOS-5D.

In the end, Canon's greatest strengths at the moment are, 1) a massive, loyal, professional user base, 2) the best and broadest lineup of lenses, 3) their low-noise/high-ISO champion CMOS sensors used in their DSLR bodies. In a way, having a really competitive, unparalleled DSLR offering is all Canon needs as many hobbyists tend to gravitate up in that direction. Take me for example, going from a Canon S10 to a Canon PowerShot G2 to a EOS-20D with several lenses, etc. The sometimes slow and poor-performing low-end P&S products only push people like me up market.

 

[ElFenix]

canon will put in body IS into their SLR bodies when it actually matters. in-body IS so far hasn't helped pentax all that much. only sony might really shake up that market. if canon puts in body IS in their cameras it will be on the low end first. gotta sell that IS L glass (and the 4 stop performance of their latest IS puts in-body stuff to shame, at least).

canon won't make a 35 mm frame $1500 dslr for quite a while. they don't have any competition in the 35 mm frame dslr market at all. why increase your cost that much?

yes, canon has killed their high end compact cameras because it wants people to move on to more profitable dslrs and lenses. of course, there are a lot of people who would like to have both a dslr and a quality compact with photographic controls and a decent lens (which no one makes, the panasonic LX-2 seems about as close as it gets but the noise and smudging is unbearable. and it's been discontinued, according to fry's), which canon seems to ignore (more likely that's just a much lower number than the people who would only buy one camera) (i'm really only complaining because their line used to feature both).

the 1D Mk. III is spectacular. i'm expecting a 40D and a new 1Ds this fall. the 40D will be an upgrade, but i'm not sure by how much. canon doesn't want to eat 40D sales. i guess it'll depend on what canon thinks nikon will do with a D200 upgrade. for the 40D i'll guess 50 to 6400 sensitivity in 1 EV increments, deeper buffer though not much faster, maybe the AF from the 1D, another 2 million pixels.
1Ds i bet gets to 20 MP and 6 or 7 fps.
for all the complaints we might have about

 

[Aharami]

GT, you're much much more well versed in DSLRs than I am. So I wont try to argue with you since I dont have a leg to stand on when it comes to DSLRs (not that I think what you're saying is incorrect. I just dont know enough to bring up a counter-point, even if there were any)

In the end, Canon's greatest strengths at the moment are, 1) a massive, loyal, professional user base,

does Canon really make most of its money from professionals or from regular consumers looking at the compact P&S, or hobbyists looking at the XTi/30D? I understand that IDs and 5D are the best of the best but most normal people cant afford those. So we're looking at a relatively small group of people buying canon's top cameras/lenses. Being such, I'd expect the droves of consumers buying their cheaper cameras would end up being majority of Canon's income. And if that is really the case, then Canon's arrogance would come back to bite it in the ass.
Dont get me wrong, I love my S3 as well as my A85. I love the bright, punchy colors my canons produce. But they have priced themselves out of my radar this time around...in the P&S class.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Aharami Being such, I'd expect the droves of consumers buying their cheaper cameras would end up being majority of Canon's income. And if that is really the case, then Canon's arrogance would come back to bite it in the ass.

canon has 47% of the dslr market, which is only 1/20th of the size of the compact market (p&s is a bad description, imho), in which canon has the largest share as well (and growing it, they're at 18.7%, up from 16.7%). so, all that this arrogance has gotten them is a dominant market position.

to respond, though, obviously most of their money comes from selling digital elphs. on the dslr side, most of their money is from xt and xti buyers. i'm not at all certain that the 1D's of the world are sold for much profit. they probably make it up mostly when the technology trickles down to the lower end dslrs and eventually compacts. canon's strategy for the last couple of decades has been to please professionals and let the rest of the market follow. it's worked pretty well for them. and the 1D Mk. III is going to please a lot of pros.

Dont get me wrong, I love my S3 as well as my A85. I love the bright, punchy colors my canons produce. But they have priced themselves out of my radar this time around...in the P&S class.

oddly enough, canon dslrs don't produce punchy colors. that's olympus' reputation.

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
canon has 47% of the dslr market, which is only 1/20th of the size of the compact market (p&s is a bad description, imho), in which canon has the largest share as well (and growing it, they're at 18.7%, up from 16.7%). so, all that this arrogance has gotten them is a dominant market position.

hmm interesting. but i disagree on why they got market dominance. I think up until recently they got market dominance in the compact market by making better products. i mean for the first few years of the elph's life, what were it's true competition? I cant think of any. But now the competition has upped the ante (bigger, better LCDs, bigger sensors, etc)...and canon is being too arrogant and refusing to keep pace. This may come back to haunt them. I may come off as a Canon hater...but believe me, im not. The only reason I made this thread is because I hated having to switch away from Canon. I was quite used to their layout and menu system...to the point where I almost had everything memorized. But now I have to familiarize myself with fuji's menus. On that note, Canon has better UI than Fuji. Maybe thats because I've been using canons for so long...but Canon's button and menu layout seem more intuitive to me.

oddly enough, canon dslrs don't produce punchy colors. that's olympus' reputation.

hmm. learn something new everyday. wasnt aware of that.

 

[cheapherk]

I A am a Canon fan. The only negative thing I can note is any Canon digital camera I've ever owned was a red-eye demon. I just bought the SD1000- small & light, great pics. The only drawback on such a small camera is the low optical zoom.

 

[episodic]

Lots of people have not noticed that on the low end canons, features are disappearing. Like the canon a510 and a520 had tv and av modes - and stitch assist, and could use detachable lenses (from the ring mount).


Fast forward - a530, a550, a560 are missing those things - you have to get the a570is to get stitch assist in the a series for the panorama mode or to use the detachable lenses. . .

 

[AmigaMan]

my first Canon compact camera was an S2 IS. I've had it about 2 years, and now it's taking pictures with lots of chromatic aberration defects. Don't know what happened, but it didn't instill in me a lot of trust in their brand. So when I went looking for a DSLR, I only considered Sony, Nikon, and Pentax.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Aharami

hmm interesting. but i disagree on why they got market dominance. I think up until recently they got market dominance in the compact market by making better products. i mean for the first few years of the elph's life, what were it's true competition? I cant think of any. But now the competition has upped the ante (bigger, better LCDs, bigger sensors, etc)...and canon is being too arrogant and refusing to keep pace. This may come back to haunt them. I may come off as a Canon hater...but believe me, im not. The only reason I made this thread is because I hated having to switch away from Canon. I was quite used to their layout and menu system...to the point where I almost had everything memorized. But now I have to familiarize myself with fuji's menus. On that note, Canon has better UI than Fuji. Maybe thats because I've been using canons for so long...but Canon's button and menu layout seem more intuitive to me.

oddly enough, canon dslrs don't produce punchy colors. that's olympus' reputation.

hmm. learn something new everyday. wasnt aware of that.

the first few years of the digital elph's life Sony was the market leader. and, canon increased their market share from 2005 to 2006. not just shipments, but share. canon grew faster than the market. so, even after the competition 'upped the ante,' canon still ate their lunch.

and no, for the most part the competition is not going with bigger sensors. on the contrary, very few compact cameras use a significantly larger sensor than the 1/2.5" sensor used in the digital elph series. a 1/2.5" sensor allows for smaller camera packaging as you can get longer zoom functionality out of a smaller lens. so just about all sub compact cameras use them (and pretty much all compact super zooms as well). fuji isn't exactly setting the market on fire, regardless of how good their high sensitivity image quality is (and the low sensitivity image quality really isn't any better than any other compact). nor does anyone else really seem to have higher quality LCD screens. 230,000 pixels seems about standard for the high end, and there are plenty of screens with half of that.

the thing with canon is that regardless of what camera you pick, you don't compromise very much at any part of the feature set. they're generally good with noise for compact cameras, they're generally one of the first with any particular feature.

i guess i'd have to say that canon is the mid to late 90s toyota of the camera world, but with GM's marketshare.

 

[zig3695]

canon is also starting to hack up the benifits of their inkjet printers, and charging as much as others for the non-refillable ink too. it seems this company is headed the way of all the special ones... dell, creative, lexmark... list goes on.

 

[Captante]

I just purchased my first Canon (SD800IS) mostly becuase of all the positive reviews I've read & the overwhelming support from folks here on AT & so far I couldn't be happier with it ... I had several Sonys before this & the Canon just takes much better quality pictures.

It came down to a choice between the SD800IS, the Canon A710IS and the Sony DSC-W90 ... I decided to go with Canon because I read too many mixed reviews of the Sony & chose the 800 over the more versitle 710 mostly due to its smaller size.

 

[episodic]

Originally posted by: Captante
I just purchased my first Canon (SD800IS) mostly becuase of all the positive reviews I've read & the overwhelming support from folks here on AT & so far I couldn't be happier with it ... I had several Sonys before this & the Canon just takes much better quality pictures.

It came down to a choice between the SD800IS, the Canon A710IS and the Sony DSC-W90 ... I decided to go with Canon because I read too many mixed reviews of the Sony & chose the 800 over the more versitle 710 mostly due to its smaller size.

O yea - they are good cams, I think everyone is just concerned about little things they've noticed becoming a trend. ..

 

[Jawo]

Originally posted by: zig3695
canon is also starting to hack up the benifits of their inkjet printers, and charging as much as others for the non-refillable ink too. it seems this company is headed the way of all the special ones... dell, creative, lexmark... list goes on.

Huh...good point. Its much easier when you are NOT in first place and you are trying to get to the top (in business, sports, etc). Failures are allowed and not many people are watching your every step. As soon as you have a smash hit product/win, everyone will be watching you in the future. Thus, less room for mistakes, errors, et al. Its a lot harder to stay at the top, than the path climbing your way up. Canon seems like they are getting content with being the best. I bet they have a few tricks up their sleeve, if a competitor (Sony, Nikon, Pentax) make a serious threat to their market share.

 

[Rottie]

I am a Canon fanboy (Powershot A610, iP4000, CanoScan 4200) I always get special treatment from Canon
Anyway I am disappointed that Canon did not include power supply for A610 (have to pay separately) while my old roommate got Sony Cybershot with power supply included.

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: Rottie
I am a Canon fanboy (Powershot A610, iP4000, CanoScan 4200) I always get special treatment from Canon
Anyway I am disappointed that Canon did not include power supply for A610 (have to pay separately) while my old roommate got Sony Cybershot with power supply included.

what do you mean by power supply? A610 uses 4 AA batteries. Do you mean battery charger?

 

[Rottie]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Rottie
I am a Canon fanboy (Powershot A610, iP4000, CanoScan 4200) I always get special treatment from Canon
Anyway I am disappointed that Canon did not include power supply for A610 (have to pay separately) while my old roommate got Sony Cybershot with power supply included.

what do you mean by power supply? A610 uses 4 AA batteries. Do you mean battery charger?

sorry stupid me i meant to type "AC power adapter"

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: Rottie

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Rottie
I am a Canon fanboy (Powershot A610, iP4000, CanoScan 4200) I always get special treatment from Canon
Anyway I am disappointed that Canon did not include power supply for A610 (have to pay separately) while my old roommate got Sony Cybershot with power supply included.

what do you mean by power supply? A610 uses 4 AA batteries. Do you mean battery charger?

sorry stupid me i meant to type "AC power adapter"

to be honest, I've owned 3 Canons so far (A75, A85, S3IS) and none of mine have come with an AC power adapter.

 

[ElFenix]

what is annoying is that they have a confusingly large array of models. they don't do it for your benefit, they do it so that the limited amount of space in stores is taken up by canons and not other brands.

and yes, canon is sitting on their lead. they're like ford when presented with the minivan. why would they want to kill their station wagon sales?

 

[erub]

Originally posted by: Rottie

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Rottie
I am a Canon fanboy (Powershot A610, iP4000, CanoScan 4200) I always get special treatment from Canon
Anyway I am disappointed that Canon did not include power supply for A610 (have to pay separately) while my old roommate got Sony Cybershot with power supply included.

what do you mean by power supply? A610 uses 4 AA batteries. Do you mean battery charger?

sorry stupid me i meant to type "AC power adapter"

what would you use an AC power adapter for if the camera takes AAs? I would never bring that anywhere, and I don't really take pictures all that often in my house. Even if i was having a party or something inside my house, I wouldn't want to find a plug to take a couple pictures..

of course, if the camera uses a rechargable lithium battery, like my Canon Digital Elphs do, then of course they come with a recharger..

 

[Rottie]

Originally posted by: erub

Originally posted by: Rottie

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Rottie
I am a Canon fanboy (Powershot A610, iP4000, CanoScan 4200) I always get special treatment from Canon
Anyway I am disappointed that Canon did not include power supply for A610 (have to pay separately) while my old roommate got Sony Cybershot with power supply included.

what do you mean by power supply? A610 uses 4 AA batteries. Do you mean battery charger?

sorry stupid me i meant to type "AC power adapter"

what would you use an AC power adapter for if the camera takes AAs? I would never bring that anywhere, and I don't really take pictures all that often in my house. Even if i was having a party or something inside my house, I wouldn't want to find a plug to take a couple pictures..

of course, if the camera uses a rechargable lithium battery, like my Canon Digital Elphs do, then of course they come with a recharger..

I understand but it would be nice to have AC power adapter while taking picture of myself also I depend on LCD view which eat up alot of battery and I remember reading magazine suggesting to use AC adapter when you want to upload your picture to your PC.

 

[Rottie]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Rottie

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Rottie
I am a Canon fanboy (Powershot A610, iP4000, CanoScan 4200) I always get special treatment from Canon
Anyway I am disappointed that Canon did not include power supply for A610 (have to pay separately) while my old roommate got Sony Cybershot with power supply included.

what do you mean by power supply? A610 uses 4 AA batteries. Do you mean battery charger?

sorry stupid me i meant to type "AC power adapter"

to be honest, I've owned 3 Canons so far (A75, A85, S3IS) and none of mine have come with an AC power adapter.

my old digital camera comes with AC adapter included...To me I think Canon need more money for each accesories separately.