Why can't we do both?
might be the first time i've agreed with js80. trade barriers and silly protectionist thinking isn't going to save our economy. we need to get back to being leaders in engineering, bio-tech and other sciency shit.
I know I'm talking to a sack of hair, but let's try.
When a country gives up the vast majority of its basic manufacturing skills to another country, it can then be held hostage by the country that has the manufacturing skill.
Consider: We're outsourcing more and more of our steel production to overseas sources, closing steel plants here in the U.S., and essentially losing our basic heavy industrial base in this area....among others.
Now, when and/or if the time comes that the country(ies) that export our raw steel to us decide to "disagree" with a policy of our government, be it import/export duties, social issues (human rights, freedom of whatever---speech, assembly, etc.), and that country decides to, in an offhand manner, suggest we may not be able to source as much steel as we'd like, what do we do? We've given up the ability to make our own, so we're essentially held hostage by the country with the ability to make it.
Wars have started over less.....but by continually outsourcing our basic manufacturing industrial base....steel, bearings, whatever.....we lose the ability to make it here at home and will forever be held hostage by those with the manufacturing base needed for production of raw goods. How do you make a weapon, plane, warship, if you cannot make the steel sheet or precision bearings or anything else we've lost to outsourcing? You can't, and rest assured, China just loves the fact that more and more of our basic manufacturing industries are essentially closing down in the U.S. and moving to China. Gives China a huge bit of leverage over us. And don't think that down the road, if the situation requires them to pull that card out and play it, they won't.
I really think it's absolutely foolish for this country to lose basic industrial capacity and techniques to another country just to save a buck or two right now.
We cry about having to import so much oil and how the Middle Eastern countries have so much effect over our economy simply by driving up prices on oil or withholding a portion of the supply we need.
Now imagine a country like China restricting our supply of steel or titanium or bearings, to name a few critical goods. We'd grind to a halt in no time...unable to manufacture a single gun or plane or ship.
I know I'm talking to a sack of hair, but let's try.
When a country gives up the vast majority of its basic manufacturing skills to another country, it can then be held hostage by the country that has the manufacturing skill.
Consider: We're outsourcing more and more of our steel production to overseas sources, closing steel plants here in the U.S., and essentially losing our basic heavy industrial base in this area....among others.
Now, when and/or if the time comes that the country(ies) that export our raw steel to us decide to "disagree" with a policy of our government, be it import/export duties, social issues (human rights, freedom of whatever---speech, assembly, etc.), and that country decides to, in an offhand manner, suggest we may not be able to source as much steel as we'd like, what do we do?
We've given up the ability to make our own, so we're essentially held hostage by the country with the ability to make it.
Wars have started over less.....but by continually outsourcing our basic manufacturing industrial base....steel, bearings, whatever.....we lose the ability to make it here at home and will forever be held hostage by those with the manufacturing base needed for production of raw goods. How do you make a weapon, plane, warship, if you cannot make the steel sheet or precision bearings or anything else we've lost to outsourcing? You can't, and rest assured, China just loves the fact that more and more of our basic manufacturing industries are essentially closing down in the U.S. and moving to China. Gives China a huge bit of leverage over us. And don't think that down the road, if the situation requires them to pull that card out and play it, they won't.
I really think it's absolutely foolish for this country to lose basic industrial capacity and techniques to another country just to save a buck or two right now.
We cry about having to import so much oil and how the Middle Eastern countries have so much effect over our economy simply by driving up prices on oil or withholding a portion of the supply we need.
Now imagine a country like China restricting our supply of steel or titanium or bearings, to name a few critical goods. We'd grind to a halt in no time...unable to manufacture a single gun or plane or ship.
I try to buy products in this order:
1) American-union made
2) American made
3) European or Canadian made
4) ANY free, non-Communist, non-dictator-led country
5) Chinese made
6) the rest of the 3rd world shitholes. (I REFUSE to buy any products from Vietnam.)
How about we manufacture it AND develop it? We're at 10% unemployment. In china, rural factory workers are getting raises because they LACK workers. They have very low unemployment. Some are earning 2 dollars an hour now for doing grunt factory work .
There are probably 150 million people in the US workforce right now, and I'll bet that less than 1% of them are smart enough to build the next iPod (or do brain surgery, or design the replacement for the space shuttle, or whatever ultra high skill job you have in mind).
What should we have the other 148 1/2 million people doing? Working at Panera Bread or Walmart?!? I'd rather have a higher paying manufacturing job myself.
That would be great if manufacturing paid that much but it pays $2/hr. You make more money working at Walmart.
$2/hr in China is not $2/hr in the U.S. The point is whether earning minimum wage in the U.S. is worth more than being on welfare. I say it is and, I believe the majority of Americans feel working is better than not. It's nice to talk about economics when you don't have to worry about where your next meal is coming from. Is the pursuit of quarterly bonuses really worth creating a situation where American labor can't compete even at minimum wage? Really?
Tell me, where does the benefit to American labor come from in the continued outsourcing/down sizing of business? Oh yeah, I forgot about the riots that only having 6 brands of cheap Chinese shoes at Walmart caused. Or, the strikes caused by grocery store patrons who demanded watermelon in January. Let's not forget the pandemonium caused by motorists who refused to buy cars without cup holders.
The free market system has failed American labor because of a failed premise i.e. what's good for big business is good for America.
One engineer works on Ipods, which are made in China let's say and sold in abundance. He receives a decent salary and makes a good living for himself.
One day he decides to upgrade his house. Since he doesn't have time to do it himself, he calls a contractor and pays him good money for a new kitchen and dining room.
He then proceeds to the supermarket where he buys a good meal to prepare in his kitchen. The next day he goes to a nice restaurant nearby.
A few days later, his American-built car breaks down so he brings it to the nearest garage for repairs.
What is the common denominator here? Wealth generated from a moderately-high-end job "trickles" into the lives of contractors, supermarket clerks and janitors, restaurant owners and waiters, farmers, truckers, mechanics, factory workers who built the trucks and his car and the contractor's tools, and the list goes on.
Shit, good luck finding any products other than produce (and a good portion of that is imported too), dairy, meat, poultry, and cars that isn't imported.
I just bought a pair of boots that were made in Italy. I was actually stunned that they weren't made in China.
Have you been reading this thread?
Who do you think opened those factories in Mexico and China for American companies?
It's the same guys who ran the previously existing factories here.
Your point? Seems to me they didn't "Adapt", they merely Cut and Ran.
You could look at it that way. But either way, they saw the writting on the wall. Labor refused to adapt, so mgmt returned the big middle finger and left labor to fend for themselves, and since labor was dependent on the mgmt they kept giving the middle finger to so.... they basically screwed themselves.
That's stupid. They got screwed, simply because "Management" got Greedy. Nothing more.
Ahh the old greed card. Do you really think manufacturing plants in the US could still be competing had not this "greed" crept it?
Theres a Ford plastics plant near me in Michigan. The managers actually make less then the line workers, with way worse bennies. They had to accept lower pay just to keep the plant open, the line workers wouldnt budge. Who was greedy there? But it's only a matter of time, the amount of work they get decreases every year.
i lol'd
I know I am talking to a wall but let's try. China makes iPods because we tell them to. We tell them how. If you cannot see that the "developing" part of the iPod is infinitely more valuable than the actual manufacturing, then you won't really "get it."
Why can't we do both?
That's stupid. They got screwed, simply because "Management" got Greedy. Nothing more.
greed is a necessary component of capitalism.
god, it's like i'm dealing with retards.
and unions are wholly and completely contrary to capitalism. and should be abolished.
if you want to look at why companies source manufacturing jobs overseas, take a look at your local manufacturing union.
Why do so many people on these boards hate working Americans so much?