Incomprehensible mass shooting happens again

[soulcougher73]

The worst mass shooting was 32 killed and 17 wounded (not counting gunman) at Virginia Tech. He had 2 semi-auto pistols.

Time to ban ALL semi-auto's. I laid out my gun plan in this thread somewhere. Not a full gun ban, but leaving behind guns that can serve a purpose but cant hold many rounds for mass carnage.

 

[soulcougher73]

The goal of self defense should be to stop the threat.

Just lock your doors. That is all it takes apparently if you are a republican politician.

 

[Pens1566]

Just lock your doors. That is all it takes apparently if you are a republican politician.

I wonder if Kavanaugh's doors were locked ...

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/08/politics/man-arrested-near-brett-kavanaugh-home/index.html

 

[brycejones]

Ronald Reagan addresses the NRA in 1983. This was about 2 years after he was almost assasinated.

He quotes the US constitution: The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." This IS the core issue, correct. I can see why its so hard to get any gun laws passeed, because many Americans will look at it as a threat to our democracy. I don't know what the answer is. Guns are as American as apple pie it would seem.

There is more to the 2nd than that.

 

[blackangst1]

You just called out for posting more misinformation about the filibuster. How about just admitting that you didn't have the facts, again.

You know a cloture motion and a filibuster are different, right?

What is a Filibuster and a Cloture Motion? | Politics Teaching (Currently being rebuilt for September 2022)

 

[fskimospy]

You know a cloture motion and a filibuster are different, right?

What is a Filibuster and a Cloture Motion? | Politics Teaching (Currently being rebuilt for September 2022)

They are not meaningfully different in the modern US senate. Talking filibusters nearly never happen anymore, which is one reason why one of the proposals floated to end the filibuster was around requiring the filibusterer to actually talk continuously instead of the filibuster by mail we currently use.

I think that article is badly written and misinforms the reader but even it acknowledges the purpose of a cloture vote is to end a filibuster, meaning that cloture votes equate to the number of filibusters. (although really they underestimate the number as not every filibuster leads to a cloture vote)

The cloture motion is an important part of the filibuster process because it is the only current mechanism by which a filibuster can be stopped.

 

[Captante]

How is it a stupid and pointless comparison that the laws say a 18 year old is too immature to drink, but mature enough to buy an assault rifle (or any other firearm for that matter)?

Consider the source.

 

[HomerJS]

Those "overthrowing tyrannical government" fantasies are particularly deranged given that history has shown that most violent revolutions end with another dictator in charge.

If overthrowing a tyrannical government is the reason, it must be cool for people to show up at Kavanaugh's house with their loaded weapons preparing for the overthrow. AMIRITE??

 

[eelw]

Chicken shit Texas repugnican house member just on CNN. Boasting his district school system with ability to flag mental health of students to lock down if necessary. Anchor, so does that mean that student banned from owning guns? No that’s a violation of their rights. Like WTF????? But then he starts blaming Pelosi bill all one sided and didn’t take any feedback from across the aisle. Well he didn’t say lock the doors and thoughts and prayers.

 

[MrSquished]

You know a cloture motion and a filibuster are different, right?

What is a Filibuster and a Cloture Motion? | Politics Teaching (Currently being rebuilt for September 2022)

One party just has to say, look we will use the filibuster and that's it. Nobody has to stand and talk, but it's technically still filibustered. So yes the filibuster has been used plenty in Biden's term.

 

[dlerious]

Vegas ...

I stand corrected

 

[Bitek]

I wonder if Kavanaugh's doors were locked ...

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/08/politics/man-arrested-near-brett-kavanaugh-home/index.html

We will never know as he had an armed marshalls outside his house. Prospective assassin saw the armed men and immediately walked away.

Huh, so good guys with guns did stop a bad guy with a gun, a bad guy from California with all their strict gun regulations no less.

It's like... criminals don't respect laws... but they do respect force.

 

[TheVrolok]

We will never know as he had an armed marshalls outside his house. Prospective assassin saw the armed men and immediately walked away.

Huh, so good guys with guns did stop a bad guy with a gun, a bad guy from California with all their strict gun regulations no less.

It's like... criminals don't respect laws... but they do respect force.

And yet an entire police force couldn't stop the shooter being discussed in this very thread. The good guy with a gun fallacy. Disgusting.

 

[Bitek]

The fuck is wrong with you. I seem to remember you used to be well tethered to reality. Now you sound like the average Fox News ditto head.

Because Democrats are wrong on this issue, are too emotionally invested in ineffective gun grabbing, are ignoring constitutional liberties, ignoring court precedent, ignoring political realities, and haven't done a damn thing to fix this issue since Columbine.

Democrats are completely ignoring, actually deriding, school safety security issues, mental health issues, and are hell bent on passing partisan, ineffective and ultimately doomed to fail legislation.

Who's tethered to reality here? Democrats? What a joke. Why aren't you more pissed, or are you just happy with culture war bullshit? Trot kids out in public, give emotional speeches, then pass partisan legislation just to complain about nasty Republicans in the fall?

I have no interest in giving up constitutional freedoms just to pass stupid laws that criminals just ignore and puts law abiding citizens at risk because they don't have the means to defend themselves when the govt is too incompetent or ineffective to solve the underlaying crime problems.

I've laid out what I thought reasonable reforms were, and that's coming from a liberal gun owner. You'll need to reach further across the aisle if you want actual change.

 

[ivwshane]

We will never know as he had an armed marshalls outside his house. Prospective assassin saw the armed men and immediately walked away.

Huh, so good guys with guns did stop a bad guy with a gun, a bad guy from California with all their strict gun regulations no less.

It's like... criminals don't respect laws... but they do respect force.

You are an idiot. The guy has mental problems and called the police on himself because he was suicidal.

 

[Bitek]

And yet an entire police force couldn't stop the shooter being discussed in this very thread. The good guy with a gun fallacy. Disgusting.

And is exactly why you need to be responsible for your own safety, unless you want to give everyone armed guards to protect themselves from the nuts, psychos, criminals, or just plain thugs and domestic abusers in the world.

 

[TheVrolok]

You are an idiot. The guy has mental problems and called the police on himself because he was suicidal.

The FBI report states the guy saw the marshals, turned around, walked away, and then called. This is what I'm assuming he's referencing. Is that actually what happened? Did the guy actually change his mind because he saw marshals? I guess he'll have to tell us.

 

[Bitek]

You are an idiot. The guy has mental problems and called the police on himself because he was suicidal.

Yes, like a lot of these mass murderers.

He just gave up before the murder and suicide part. Buffalo shooter got to the murder and gun under the chin part.

Your gun grabbing isn't going to stop crazies from existing, and who wants to fight a psycho with a knife and crow bar with their fists?

You feel ok letting your wife fight off knife wielding attackers or rapists with fists?

 

[TheVrolok]

And is exactly why you need to be responsible for your own safety, unless you want to give everyone armed guards to protect themselves from the nuts, psychos, criminals, or just plain thugs and domestic abusers in the world.

I'm not going to relitigate the argument as it's been addressed ad nauseum in this thread, but having a firearm makes you less safe.

Before you bark down that tree, I own an AR15 myself, among several other firearms.

 

[pmv]

We will never know as he had an armed marshalls outside his house. Prospective assassin saw the armed men and immediately walked away.

Huh, so good guys with guns did stop a bad guy with a gun, a bad guy from California with all their strict gun regulations no less.

It's like... criminals don't respect laws... but they do respect force.

Though, as has been demonstrated in multiple mass-shootings (not to mention multiple Islamist suicide bombings), it seems they don't if they are suicidal. Kavanagh's fortunate that his enemies are relatively-rational.

 

[HomerJS]

Because Democrats are wrong on this issue, are too emotionally invested in ineffective gun grabbing, are ignoring constitutional liberties, ignoring court precedent, ignoring political realities, and haven't done a damn thing to fix this issue since Columbine.

Democrats are completely ignoring, actually deriding, school safety security issues, mental health issues, and are hell bent on passing partisan, ineffective and ultimately doomed to fail legislation.

Who's tethered to reality here? Democrats? What a joke. Why aren't you more pissed, or are you just happy with culture war bullshit? Trot kids out in public, give emotional speeches, then pass partisan legislation just to complain about nasty Republicans in the fall?

I have no interest in giving up constitutional freedoms just to pass stupid laws that criminals just ignore and puts law abiding citizens at risk because they don't have the means to defend themselves when the govt is too incompetent or ineffective to solve the underlaying crime problems.

I've laid out what I thought reasonable reforms were, and that's coming from a liberal gun owner. You'll need to reach further across the aisle if you want actual change.

You’ve got your wish this time Murphy is negotiating the bare minimum like raising the age for semi-auto rifles to 21. You seem to think Republicans are negotiating in good faith. We will see if they are.

As for the kids testifying today god bless the parents. They are trying to prevent other parents from losing their kids in the future. It wasn’t the Dems that brought out that little girl it was her parents

 

[Bitek]

The FBI report states the guy saw the marshals, turned around, walked away, and then called. This is what I'm assuming he's referencing. Is that actually what happened? Did the guy actually change his mind because he saw marshals? I guess he'll have to tell us.

That's the news reports so far. I'm sure more deals will emerge. Not sure where he bought the gun, but MD also had tough gun laws..

Guy also had a nail punch, duct tape, zip ties and other bad juju supplies.

Sounds like the Riddler murders scene from The Batman movie...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1534637026053476352

 

[Bitek]

You’ve got your wish this time Murphy is negotiating the bare minimum like raising the age for semi-auto rifles to 21. You seem to think Republicans are negotiating in good faith. We will see if they are.

As for the kids testifying today god bless the parents. They are trying to prevent other parents from losing their kids in the future. It wasn’t the Dems that brought out that little girl it was her parents

Fully support raising the age to 21, that and the storage items are exactly in line with what I wrote 50 pages so.

Red flag laws are needed, but making them federal will be a nonstarter. That's a poison pill, as is the magazine limit. Those are deal killers for 2A community, and really won't make any safety differences.

What's missing is any concessions to the other side. No significant mental health resources (school shootings are often violent suicide) nor to school safety.

Even then it may not be enough, but make all those changes then I'll blame Republicans.

As it is now, it's dead legislation and useless but for campaign ads.

 

[HomerJS]

Fully support raising the age to 21, that and the storage items are exactly in line with what I wrote 50 pages so.

Red flag laws are needed, but making them federal will be a nonstarter. That's a poison pill, as is the magazine limit. Those are deal killers for 2A community, and really won't make any safety differences.

What's missing is any concessions to the other side. No significant mental health resources (school shootings are often violent suicide) nor to school safety.

Even then it may not be enough, but make all those changes then I'll blame Republicans.

As it is now, it's dead legislation and useless but for campaign ads.

Where are the concessions from Republicans? They’ve always rejected any healthcare funding. Even if you include mental health no provisions to separate the mentally incapable from guns.

What does the GOP give up?

 

[Bitek]

Though, as has been demonstrated in multiple mass-shootings (not to mention multiple Islamist suicide bombings), it seems they don't if they are suicidal. Kavanagh's fortunate that his enemies are relatively-rational.

Yeah, I'm not going with rational with his little torture in a bag tool kit and cross country travel plans.

I bet he was met with enough force to reconsider his choices. If no one was there, where would he have stopped? Before breaking in, after? After tying up ol Brett? Maybe after working him over with the crowbar? We will never know thankfully.

I will say, I would much prefer these suicide interdictions occur before guns have to come out. That's why I think the mental health resources are far more important, effective and practical than arming teachers and shit.

I wish no one had to choose to arm themselves for defense, and only acquired guns for hunting or for sport. Killing people is terrible, even when justified.

Unfortunately, there are too many criminals and lunatics, not effective enough law enforcement, and some neighborhoods too rough. People in those situations have the right to effectively arm and defend themselves if they feel they need to, and that is protected by our constitution.

I'll repost this again regarding a study on mass shooters, suicide, and underlaying motivations.

Two Professors Found What Creates a Mass Shooter. Will Politicians Pay Attention?

Mass shooters overwhelmingly fit a certain profile, say Jillian Peterson and James Densley, which means it’s possible to ID and treat them before they commit violence.

www.politico.com