Incomprehensible mass shooting happens again

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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
25,938
24,256
136
The vast majority of guys I was friends with at 18 that were very immature were all in much better head spaces at 25. It's a simple fact. Of course we were all middle class so that helped give us a softer landing spot. But a ton of it was getting that bit more mature. You can probably talk to Amy psychologist work a shit and they'll verify.

This guy is just a moron.
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,448
2,978
136
The vast majority of guys I was friends with at 18 that were very immature were all in much better head spaces at 25. It's a simple fact. Of course we were all middle class so that helped give us a softer landing spot. But a ton of it was getting that bit more mature. You can probably talk to Amy psychologist work a shit and they'll verify.

This guy is just a moron.
WOW! Man the fuck up if you are going to call someone a moron, quote me.. And then dispute what I said with something other than "the majority of the friends I had at 18" blah blah blah.. They had access to guns at 18.. why didn't your friends shoot themselves or people if it's about age limit of guns, growing up, maturity? They had access to guns.

Explain why most gun deaths happens from age 24 to 35 if it's about age, growing up, maturity. Why doesn't it go down till after the age 35?


Suicides are also the highest for the 24 to 35 range (all suicides, not just gun related) What does that show us? :

 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
25,938
24,256
136
WOW! Man the fuck up if you are going to call someone a moron, quote me.. And then dispute what Isaid with something other than "the majority of the friends I had at 18" blah blah blah.. They had access to guns at 18.. why didn't they shoot themselves or people if it's about age limit of guns, growing up, maturity? They had access to guns.

Explain why most gun deaths and gun violence happens from age 24 to 35 if it's about age, growing up, maturity. Why doesn't it go down till after the age 35?

Those are going to be more socio economic issues and relationship conflict, not psychopathic meltdowns. Can't stop all shootings. Good place to start is by age.
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,448
2,978
136
Those are going to be more socio economic issues and relationship conflict, not psychopathic meltdowns. Can't stop all shootings. Good place to start is by age.
HUH? So, under 25 those issues are not present? Wouldn't maturity better equip you to handle those issues over the age 25, or does maturity only apply to guns?
As raising the drinking age has shown us.. raising the age to purchase guns will only delay the problem.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
25,938
24,256
136
HUH? So, under 25 those issues are not present? Wouldn't maturity better equip you to handle those issues over the age 25, or does maturity only apply to guns?
As raising the drinking age has shown us.. raising the age to purchase guns will only delay the problem.
Dude. It's science. Brains don't mature until 25, which includes controlling impulsivity better



If you want to deny science, keep on keeping on. Literally a million sources back this up.

Just admit you are wrong
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,448
2,978
136
Dude. It's science. Brains don't mature until 25, which includes controlling impulsivity better



If you want to deny science, keep on keeping on. Literally a million sources back this up.

Just admit you are wrong
Are we back to that bs excuse/argument again? if that is the reason, why do the numbers not go down from ages 24, thru 35 but go up? Why is 33 the average age of mass shooters? As I said before, if that was the reason, we would be having chaos in schools all the way thru collage, not just a gun crisis that is taking place across this country thru all ages. We learn morality, right from wrong by our early teen years..

Why is the US the leader in school shootings around the world? Why doesn't Switzerland for example, have the same problem, they can buy guns at 18? Is the rest of the world immune to the brain maturity theory when it comes to guns and school shootings?

Don't misunderstand me, I am not disputing that our brains don't mature till 25, I am not denying Science, but I am denying that the gun problem is linked to brain maturity.. there is no proof of that. Other countries prove that is not the case.. If you want to get down to it, our brains are never fully mature, as they are always changing, constantly developing, making new connections, etc thru out our lives. It's a muscle per say that has to always be exercised.. And just like any muscle, it will only adapt to what it's trained to do.

So no, there is no proof that I am wrong.. There is only unproven theories.
 
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Reactions: ivwshane

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
38,267
31,145
136
Question: Should any member of this group be denied a gun license even if they have a clean record?
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
25,938
24,256
136
Are we back to that bs excuse/argument again? if that is the reason, why do the numbers not go down from ages 24, thru 35 but go up? Why is 33 the average age of mass shooters? As I said before, if that was the reason, we would be having chaos in schools all the way thru collage, not just a gun crisis that is taking place across this country thru all ages. We learn morality, right from wrong by our early teen years..

Why is the US the leader in school shootings around the world? Why doesn't Switzerland for example, have the same problem, they can buy guns at 18? Is the rest of the world immune to the brain maturity theory when it comes to guns and school shootings?

Don't misunderstand me, I am not disputing that our brains don't mature till 25, I am not denying Science, but I am denying that the gun problem is linked to brain maturity.. there is no proof of that. Other countries prove that is not the case.. If you want to get down to it, our brains are never fully mature, as they are always changing, constantly developing, making new connections, etc thru out our lives. It's a muscle per say that has to always be exercised.. And just like any muscle, it will only adapt to what it's trained to do.

So no, there is no proof that I am wrong.. There is only unproven theories.

Switzerland is a poor example. Their guns are regulated quite strictly.

We can just agree to disagree, I don't think kids with an undeveloped brain that can't temper impulsivity should be able to buy semi automatic weapons until at least 21, if not a bit longer. I fail to see how this is bad policy. It will definitely reduce gun violence. I still think guns should be more regulated overall for everyone, but you just can't ban them altogether, so raising the age is just smart. But there is nothing wrong with strongly reducing gun violence of the younger crowd either while hopefully someone in this country has the balls to regulate guns better overall. Should we tackle none of the problem because we'll still have a big problem?
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
25,513
11,898
136
A LOT of mental health issues manifest in that 16-25 year age, so the full of shit gun nutters that just scream "mental health" while tacitly doing less than nothing (often actively work against anything and everything even) about mental health, seems like perhaps something to consider.

I think most people know someone that went through very destructive (often self) phase of life during that time.
I just extracted this from a link about schizophrenia.

A person can develop schizoaffective disorder anywhere in their late teen years or early adulthood. The most common age range for someone to develop the condition is 16 to 30. One of the severe side effects is memory loss, which will occur anytime after the disorder has developed.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,339
10,858
136
Switzerland is a poor example. Their guns are regulated quite strictly.

If I'm not mistaken in Switzerland there used to be (and may well still be) a law to the effect that every home was actually required to have a gun.

What people often fail to add is that every healthy adult citizen in Switzerland is also required to (albeit often briefly) serve in the military where they receive mandatory weapons-training and are issued a rifle.

The Swiss culture is also far different then it is here in 'murica.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
30,402
44,912
136
The very same thing happened when they raised the drinking age to 21.. People believed that it would prevent alcohol related traffic deaths. It didn't, it only delayed them. The very same thing will happen if the legal age to buy a gun is raised to 25. The only difference with guns, is it's not about experience, but the mentality that is built up around guns, and the ability to access them at any age, especially assault weapons, in this country.


Speculation on your part, and not borne out by science at that.

Regardless of the topic being alcohol or firearms, the fact is the human brain is not finished developing until the age of 25. We take mental fitness and maturity into account with other safety measures, it's time to apply it to semi auto battle rifles.

Do you have any data that shows alcohol related deaths among 18 year olds as being no different than among 25 year olds? There might puddin there.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
16,911
15,987
146
Switzerland is a poor example. Their guns are regulated quite strictly.

We can just agree to disagree, I don't think kids with an undeveloped brain that can't temper impulsivity should be able to buy semi automatic weapons until at least 21, if not a bit longer. I fail to see how this is bad policy. It will definitely reduce gun violence. I still think guns should be more regulated overall for everyone, but you just can't ban them altogether, so raising the age is just smart. But there is nothing wrong with strongly reducing gun violence of the younger crowd either while hopefully someone in this country has the balls to regulate guns better overall. Should we tackle none of the problem because we'll still have a big problem?
I think a not terrible idea would be single shot (breach action, single load bolt action, muzzle load) at 18, revolvers, multi load bolt action, lever action, pump action at 21, semi auto pistol/long gun at 25. Mind you this is just for age grouping, disregards any additional work to be done.
 
Reactions: nakedfrog

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,448
2,978
136
Switzerland is a poor example. Their guns are regulated quite strictly.

We can just agree to disagree, I don't think kids with an undeveloped brain that can't temper impulsivity should be able to buy semi automatic weapons until at least 21, if not a bit longer. I fail to see how this is bad policy. It will definitely reduce gun violence. I still think guns should be more regulated overall for everyone, but you just can't ban them altogether, so raising the age is just smart. But there is nothing wrong with strongly reducing gun violence of the younger crowd either while hopefully someone in this country has the balls to regulate guns better overall. Should we tackle none of the problem because we'll still have a big problem?
HUH? Switzerland is a poor example because their guns are regulated quite strictly you say? The one restriction that you say we need here in the US because of brain development, is not one of them. Their legal age to purchase a gun is 18 years old. Any restrictions they have in place, apply to EVERYONE. If it's really connected to brain development, then why do they not restrict the legal purchasing age to 25, or have the problems we do with ages 18 to 25? for that matter, why do they not have the problems we do from ages 24 to 35, and the age groups after?

I agree, we can just agree to disagree.. Because I believe it has zero to do with brain development for reasons I have already explained. Raising the legal age to purchase a gun is not going to fix or change the problem, it will just delay it as the statistics show it has nothing to do with brain development, otherwise, the numbers would drop after the age 25, but the increase. Why are most of the 18 to 25 year old unaffected by their underdeveloped brains.. shouldn't they be going around shooting up schools also? or is there something else that is the contributor or reason for the problem?


Speculation on your part, and not borne out by science at that.

Regardless of the topic being alcohol or firearms, the fact is the human brain is not finished developing until the age of 25. We take mental fitness and maturity into account with other safety measures, it's time to apply it to semi auto battle rifles.

Do you have any data that shows alcohol related deaths among 18 year olds as being no different than among 25 year olds? There might puddin there.
Speculation on my part? The whole blaming brain development for the cause of gun violence in 18 to 25 year old is all speculation, as there is no evidence that shows that gun deaths are linked to brain development in 18 to 25 year old. If it was, why do the numbers go up after the age 25 for gun deaths?

Can it be linked to mental illness? Most likely since our brains are never fully develop as they are constantly changing thru out our lives, just as mental illness can in all other age groups. Since most gun deaths and violence are committed by men, maybe it's linked to testosterone, and we should ban all males from owning guns.. what do you think? Or maybe we should ban all drugs and all alcohol, since they are mind altering substances.. maybe that is the problem? Or maybe we can actually put realistic gun laws in place that apply to everyone rather than trying to place blame on something that has not actual proof it is linked to other than speculation and unproven theories.

I already linked an article that talks about drinking age facts on the previous page. It shows that it did not prevent traffic deaths, it only delayed them.. However, here are statistics.. Take not that 21 to 24 and 24 to 35 are only 1% different.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,215
19,928
146
Why are guns used by 25-34 year olds more for violence?

I offer my opinion - their minds have developed and they realize how fucked most Americans are. Low wages, higher education out of reach, stuck in a rut, no retirement will happen for them, medical is just crazy expensive coupled with chronic health problems suffered by 10’s of millions, the list goes on.

the younger crowd still uses them, guns surpass cars as leading cause of deaths for minors.

the kids shooting in schools haven’t even realized how screwed huge portions of society are as adults. It’s more likely the 18 year olds are influenced by shitty people around them and acting out in a very American way, blaming others and destroying things / lives to make others aware of their pain.
 

eelw

Lifer
Dec 4, 1999
10,217
5,323
136
the kids shooting in schools haven’t even realized how screwed huge portions of society are as adults. It’s more likely the 18 year olds are influenced by shitty people around them and acting out in a very American way, blaming others and destroying things / lives to make others aware of their pain.
For sure. Like when does mental health come into issue, when there is a troubled family. But do Americans only think this is a US only thing? Plenty of shitty parents world wide.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,266
16,589
136
Easy access is the issue, whether that’s someone else’s gun in the house or how easy it is to buy one. Guns make hurting people easier, period.

We’ve got two options; make guns way harder to access or remove guns from the equation altogether.

The more these shootings happen the stricter one of those two will be as a reaction.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,215
19,928
146
For sure. Like when does mental health come into issue, when there is a troubled family. But do Americans only think this is a US only thing? Plenty of shitty parents world wide.

I agree, but I'll also say that a family can not be "troubled" but still struggle with mental health issues. People can be really good and hiding stuff, for better or worse. Lots of references points for this. "They seemed like such a nice family" "he was just a good kid, dunno what happened", etc..
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
14,735
9,624
136
If I'm not mistaken in Switzerland there used to be (and may well still be) a law to the effect that every home was actually required to have a gun.

What people often fail to add is that every healthy adult citizen in Switzerland is also required to (albeit often briefly) serve in the military where they receive mandatory weapons-training and are issued a rifle.

The Swiss culture is also far different then it is here in 'murica.

Switzerland also has a much lower number of 'guns per person' than the US (about a quarter as many). And still has the highest rates of gun deaths in Europe (gun murder rate five times as high as the UK).

Swiss gun ownership really does seem to be for the purposes of a "well regulated militia", insofar as the logic of it seems to be for defending the country against foreign invasion, rather than against it's own government or "criminals".
 
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Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
13,247
10,647
136
Switzerland also has a much lower number of 'guns per person' than the US (about a quarter as many). And still has the highest rates of gun deaths in Europe (gun murder rate five times as high as the UK).

Swiss gun ownership really does seem to be for the purposes of a "well regulated militia", insofar as the logic of it seems to be for defending the country against foreign invasion, rather than against it's own government or "criminals".

Also ironic when you consider their lack of involvement in armed conflicts.
 
Reactions: Leeea and Captante

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,990
32,260
136
Are we back to that bs excuse/argument again? if that is the reason, why do the numbers not go down from ages 24, thru 35 but go up? Why is 33 the average age of mass shooters? As I said before, if that was the reason, we would be having chaos in schools all the way thru collage, not just a gun crisis that is taking place across this country thru all ages.
The brain continues to develop past 25, but the changes are not as dramatic. Once you start throwing kids in the mix, emotions skyrocket. Wife is leaving and taking the kids? Might as well blow everyone away because "I can't imagine life without them." That's just one possible reason the numbers go up for the prime breeding age bracket.


We learn morality, right from wrong by our early teen years..

...
Morality is complex. Heat of the moment property damage seems like a victimless crime when your brain can't think through ALL of the consequences for the property owner. At a younger age, it's like "they can just replace it, no big deal." Then it happens to you and you realize the psychological trauma that can come from such incidents that go way beyond the cost to replace.
 

eelw

Lifer
Dec 4, 1999
10,217
5,323
136
Well he wouldn’t be saying things like that if he wasn’t pandering to the gun nutters. And there are selfish people that will vote for him because MUH RIGHTS! MUH FREEDUMS!!! more important than giving up their precious metal penises
 
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