Indictments coming...

[woolfe9998]

Well... someone is definitely cooperating...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/23/us/politics/flynn-mueller-russia-trump.html

I think this has been inevitable since we learned that Mueller is considering indicting Flynn's son. It's the ultimate leverage. The only question is, will Flynn incriminate Trump himself, or will it be someone else like maybe Kushner.

 

[Thump553]

There always has been a legal issue whether a sitting President can be indicted. They can be impeached Nixon wasn't indicted in Watergate, but the report listed an unindicted co-conspirator which nearly everyone assumes to have been Nixon. Mueller's goal in that regard is to present enough evidence to Congress that they must impeach Trump.

If the NY Times story is correct, Flynn has almost certainly flipped, or at least strongly considering flipping.. Mueller is too smart to give that big a fish immunity unless his proffer of evidence against Trump himself is pretty appealing.

From what I have seen I have little doubt that both Donald Jr. and Kushner can be indicted, with at least Donald Jr. also being swept up in NY state charges as well. which Trump can't pardon. There's going to be some real serious hardball played in the next few months. Trump is playing checkers against a chess master. Outside of his tweets and cries to his base, the only strategy Trump has left is to fire Mueller, which will set off a constitutional crisis and most likely tear the GOP apart-separating those blindly personally following Trump versus those that will honor their oath to the Constitution. His only other real alternative is to resign before things come to a head with the understanding that Pence will throw away his career by pardoning everyone.

 

[UNCjigga]

"Flynn who? Barely knew the guy, he had a very small role in the campaign blah blah..."

 

[unseenmorbidity]

I think this has been inevitable since we learned that Mueller is considering indicting Flynn's son. It's the ultimate leverage. The only question is, will Flynn incriminate Trump himself, or will it be someone else like maybe Kushner.

If Trump goes down for rigging the election, I'll give you a bitcoin.

 

[Paratus]

If Trump goes down for rigging the election, I'll give you a bitcoin.

Quoted for posterity.

 

[IronWing]

... the only strategy Trump has left is to fire Mueller, which will set off a constitutional crisis and most likely tear the GOP apart-separating those blindly personally following Trump versus those that will honor their oath to the Constitution.

Hehe, good one.

 

[alien42]

Well... someone is definitely cooperating...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/23/us/politics/flynn-mueller-russia-trump.html

for anyone interested, here is a detailed breakdown of what this means/could mean from a former federal prosecutor who is running for AG of Illinois...

https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/933892591145320449

 

[woolfe9998]

More possible crimes on the part of Flynn:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...i-835am:homepage/story&utm_term=.b597d4ab0ab9

In short, Flynn was paid by two American companies to consult on a venture to build nuclear plants in the middle east, in partnership with Russia. He failed to disclose this information both in his security clearance application in January, 2016 and in his financial disclosure statement in February, 2017.

Sounds like Flynn is facing the very real possibility of dying in prison if he doesn't cooperate with Mueller.

 

[Commodus]

More possible crimes on the part of Flynn:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/michael-flynns-role-in-middle-eastern-nuclear-project-could-compound-legal-issues/2017/11/26/51ce7ec8-ce18-11e7-81bc-c55a220c8cbe_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_flynnsaudi-835am:homepage/story&utm_term=.b597d4ab0ab9

In short, Flynn was paid by two American companies to consult on a venture to build nuclear plants in the middle east, in partnership with Russia. He failed to disclose this information both in his security clearance application in January, 2016 and in his financial disclosure statement in February, 2017.

Sounds like Flynn is facing the very real possibility of dying in prison if he doesn't cooperate with Mueller.

You have to like how Trump's undoing may be his fondness for appointing other corrupt people to his team. Mueller may get all the info he wants simply because he knows people like Flynn and Manafort are terrified of spending the rest of their lives in prison, as they deserve.

 

[trenchfoot]

You have to like how Trump's undoing may be his fondness for appointing other corrupt people to his team. Mueller may get all the info he wants simply because he knows people like Flynn and Manafort are terrified of spending the rest of their lives in prison, as they deserve.

If not for the horrifically enforced disciplinary penalties that organized crime families impose on their members most if not all of them would cease to exist as the lust for cash and the power it brings would overcome any sense of loyalty short of blood ties and even then sometimes cash and power is thicker than blood.

There are many similarities that the Trump administration has with organized crime and the rules they live by except for the ultimate form of enforcing discipline.. So for the Trump organization, being thrown in jail as sacrificial lambs is one of the worst or most loyal forms of discipline he can administer to his underlings. This is a far less threatening motivation than other criminal organizations can bring to bear, but at the level of society that the very wealthy and the politicians who bear their marks as servile pawns, it seems to me that it's almost as unbearable but not as, shall we say, a permanent solution.

Point being, without the ultimate threat of losing one's life as the price for committing an act of treachery, Trump's underlings have much less reason to stay "loyal" and more reason to cut a deal with the authorities than other members of organized crime families would.

And yes, as I have been alluding to, I really do think that the Trump administration IS an organized crime family of sorts, just not as brutal as the other more notorious ones are, but much more treacherous, much more profitable and with a much wider reach, consisting of every man woman and child in the nation.

 

[werepossum]

Honest question here, have presidential pardons ever been challenged by any court?
If he starts handing out pardons to people like Halloween candy is there any way to keep him from subverting the rule of law in this manner?

There is no judicial way to stop him any more than we could stop Clinton from pardoning tax dodgers and terrorists. It's just a wart that neither side is willing to remove. However, too blatant pardons (as with any overreach) result in political embarrassment which results in pressure and ultimately impeachment.

 

[SlowSpyder]

This thread was started about seven months ago. Have the indictments come yet?

 

[werepossum]

Three bullets in the back of head suicide is my guess. Or did he have a 5 story fall trying to move a hot tub?

Arkanside or Putinitus?

 

[hal2kilo]

This thread was started about seven months ago. Have the indictments come yet?

Yes. Pay attention. Ever hear of Manafort for one?

 

[werepossum]

Being completely serious there aren't that many die hard Trump supports today. There are many who say he is better than Hillary. Even the early Russia deniers aren't sticking to their original thoughts and that is good its perfectly fine to evaluate a position you once had and change your mind.

I just want a decent investigation, I want it to mostly focus on Russia. I do not want to see a day come where Politicians bend over backwards to appease Russia so they don't get trolled or even worse Politicians pick sides. One sides with Russia the others side with China.

Don't forget that Clinton was also tight with Russia, until she set Syria on fire. Personally instead of focussing just on Russia I'd like to see as wide a net as can legitimately be cast. Let's get as many crooks out as possible regardless of whether they did anything illegal regarding Russia.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Yes. Pay attention. Ever hear of Manafort for one?

Good one. Carry on guys.

 

[vi edit]

Good one. Carry on guys.

Manafort, Gates, Papadopolous. All that went down on October 30th. By most accounts Flynn and Flynn Jr. are in deep doo doo. Waiting to see what happens there.

 

[hal2kilo]

Manafort, Gates, Papadopolous. All that went down on October 30th. By most accounts Flynn and Flynn Jr. are in deep doo doo. Waiting to see what happens there.

My guess is that he fetching for the where's Trump's indictment. Patience young man.

 

[CrackRabbit]

There is no judicial way to stop him any more than we could stop Clinton from pardoning tax dodgers and terrorists. It's just a wart that neither side is willing to remove. However, too blatant pardons (as with any overreach) result in political embarrassment which results in pressure and ultimately impeachment.

You have a lot more faith in the current Congress than I do.
I honestly believe the current majority in both houses wouldn’t push it until long after the the horses have left the barn and are on the beach in some small Caribbean tax haven island sipping mai-tais.

 

[woolfe9998]

Don't forget that Clinton was also tight with Russia, until she set Syria on fire. Personally instead of focussing just on Russia I'd like to see as wide a net as can legitimately be cast. Let's get as many crooks out as possible regardless of whether they did anything illegal regarding Russia.

I'm fine with casting a wide net. If the Clintons are guilty of something, they should be prosecuted like anyone else. The problem isn't that. It's that if an indictment does not happen, it will be a conspiracy of some kind. Mueller is a closet liberal. Or some other liberal, behind the scenes, manipulating the situation to let the Clintons off. You call for a certain legal process, but that legal process is always going to be irrelevant to the right if it doesn't produce the result they want. I don't think the average conservative will ever, under any circumstances, accept that the Clintons are either just not guilty, or even if they are, that there is insufficient evidence to prosecute them.

 

[zinfamous]

Manafort, Gates, Papadopolous. All that went down on October 30th. By most accounts Flynn and Flynn Jr. are in deep doo doo. Waiting to see what happens there.

and we've still got those 31 sealed indictments sitting in DC court for some reason, right?

 

[sdifox]

and we've still got those 31 sealed indictments sitting in DC court for some reason, right?

Those are about second hand smoke and lawn signs.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

To add, Papadopoulos was arrested in July. Who knows if there are more we aren’t aware of. Doubtful but they hid his arrest for 3 months successfully.

 

[zinfamous]

Those are about second hand smoke and lawn signs.

I seem to have missed the lawn sign reference that I've been seeing here today. Should I even bother? Is it the dumbest one yet?

 

[hal2kilo]

To add, Papadopoulos was arrested in July. Who knows if there are more we aren’t aware of. Doubtful but they hid his arrest for 3 months successfully.

God, I hope he was carrying a wire around to a lot of meetings. That's why they kept his conviction quiet.