Intel has been dubbed EVIL

[MarcVenice]

Ouch ...

I'm not much into legal practice, but Intel can drag this out, right? I also wonder where this money is going. I doubt it's going to AMD or to the consumer. In which case I'd say, slap on the wrist and let bygones be bygones, coz it will only hurt Intel, and help no one.

Edit: Forgot link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8047546.stm

 

[IlllI]

no link? =/

 

[AmberClad]

Heard it on the radio this morning. Here's an NYT article.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

That is a nice way of making some money during a recession

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
That is a nice way of making some money during a recession

Yes, let's take a good America based company and fine them 15% of their cash reserves. How about Intel just pulls all Intel products from the shelves in the EU instead? While we're at it, let's pull all Microsoft licenses at the same time.

 

[Hacp]

There goes the cheap prices...

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: Golgatha

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
That is a nice way of making some money during a recession

Yes, let's take a good America based company and fine them 15% of their cash reserves. How about Intel just pulls all Intel products from the shelves in the EU instead? While we're at it, let's pull all Microsoft licenses at the same time.

Yes, do illegal things and not get punished. Typical response from majority of people who are clueless on what happened.

No matter what spin you put on it, Intel did some very illegal activities back in the day. I disagree with the EU receiving the money as it should be going back to the consumers or AMD.

 

[Idontcare]

Cheap prices? How much was the Q6600 until Intel got concerned about Phenom price/performance? And what about the 45nm quad lineup prices until PhII came out? Cheap prices only happen when we have access to competing products...something Intel sought to prevent from happening in this EU case.

Regulators said Intel also paid Germany's biggest electronics retailer, Media Saturn Holding ? which owns the MediaMarkt superstores ? from 2002 to 2007 to only stock Intel-based computers.

Where is i7 priced now? And how long until Intel moves 45nm i7 bloomfield to 32nm? Oh yeah, you people buying products from Intel's "we got no competition here" division get to wait another full year before your Gulftown is available.

At any rate:

EU regulators said they calculated Intel's fine on the value of its European chip sales over the five years and three months that it broke the law.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30717099/

So the fine is restricted to just those sales in the EU over the five years in question. Basically the EU just mailed in their rebate form and want their 15% MIR back. It's a retroactive tax, a complete slap on the wrist for Intel.

Will any of the money go to AMD or the customers effected? No.

 

[richierich1212]

Yup Intel didn't even bother to lower prices until AMD came out with their newer processors.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: Golgatha

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
That is a nice way of making some money during a recession

Yes, let's take a good America based company and fine them 15% of their cash reserves. How about Intel just pulls all Intel products from the shelves in the EU instead? While we're at it, let's pull all Microsoft licenses at the same time.

Yes, do illegal things and not get punished. Typical response from majority of people who are clueless on what happened.

No matter what spin you put on it, Intel did some very illegal activities back in the day. I disagree with the EU receiving the money as it should be going back to the consumers or AMD.

I think you mistook my post. I'm also mad that the EU is getting the money. Intel is not faultless and it has been proven time and time again that their past tactics were anti-competitive. What good does it do the situation to pad the EU regulator's bankbook though? It doesn't help the already effected companies in the least. It might make their futures better, but that's assuming the anti-competitive tactics don't run the small fry into the ground before that future comes about.

I would love to see the backlash from EU companies against the EU commission, if all of a sudden they could not use MS or Intel products however.

 

[Nathelion]

I think the point of fines in general is to discourage companies from illegal practices in the future???

 

[RaiderJ]

Originally posted by: Golgatha

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: Golgatha

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
That is a nice way of making some money during a recession

Yes, let's take a good America based company and fine them 15% of their cash reserves. How about Intel just pulls all Intel products from the shelves in the EU instead? While we're at it, let's pull all Microsoft licenses at the same time.

Yes, do illegal things and not get punished. Typical response from majority of people who are clueless on what happened.

No matter what spin you put on it, Intel did some very illegal activities back in the day. I disagree with the EU receiving the money as it should be going back to the consumers or AMD.

I think you mistook my post. I'm also mad that the EU is getting the money. Intel is not faultless and it has been proven time and time again that their past tactics were anti-competitive. What good does it do the situation to pad the EU regulator's bankbook though? It doesn't help the already effected companies in the least. It might make their futures better, but that's assuming the anti-competitive tactics don't run the small fry into the ground before that future comes about.

I would love to see the backlash from EU companies against the EU commission, if all of a sudden they could not use MS or Intel products however.

I think the Microsoft situation was a little different. It was about Internet Explorer and/or Windows Media Player being installed? Kinda silly I think - it's really easy to install a competitor's product.

With Intel, if you buy a machine based on their processor, it's not easy to switch to AMD. Hence, the anti-competitive practices on AMD should be dealt with rather harshly.

For the fine, what does it go towards? Some blanket EU bank account?

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: Golgatha

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
That is a nice way of making some money during a recession

Yes, let's take a good America based company and fine them 15% of their cash reserves. How about Intel just pulls all Intel products from the shelves in the EU instead? While we're at it, let's pull all Microsoft licenses at the same time.

Whooosh!

 

[Forumpanda]

The money fined was taken out of European customers exclusively, and the money going to the EU does mean that it will in some way benefit the European people.
Maybe being from Europe is the reason I see no problem with this logic?

If you Americans want monies out of anti competitive multi national companies then I think you should start making your own lawsuits against them
(this is not a naa naa look how good we are post, its more of a sad statement that speaks to how far we are letting corporations go in the name of profit)

Lets flip it around, what good does the money do in the pockets of Intel board members and share holders?

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: RaiderJ
For the fine, what does it go towards? Some blanket EU bank account?

It becomes part of the standard revenue stream for bankrolling government activities in general.

So in theory it helps all the citizenry of the EU member countries as it enables the EU to do more with less of their money (in government speak - we will be raising your taxes even less than you previously feared we would).

It does not directly help the affected customers nor the affected businesses...rather it establishes a lot of prior hearsay and speculation as fact. Now that this is done the affected individuals can form a class-action lawsuit against Intel seeking damages/compensation above and beyond what the EU has fined them.

Additionally the affected companies, and it has now been officially determined the companies were affected, can enter this EU ruling into court of law as evidence to support any ongoing or future anti-trust lawsuits...

As they say, the ball is rolling, we've yet to see just what kind of avalanche will come of it. (if any)

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Forumpanda
The money fined was taken out of European customers exclusively, and the money going to the EU does mean that it will in some way benefit the European people.
Maybe being from Europe is the reason I see no problem with this logic?

If you Americans want monies out of anti competitive multi national companies then I think you should start making your own lawsuits against them
(this is not a naa naa look how good we are post, its more of a sad statement that speaks to how far we are letting corporations go in the name of profit)

Lets flip it around, what good does the money do in the pockets of Intel board members and share holders?

On the flipside...its got to kinda irk you guys that this went on for 5 years before this government entity decided to do something about it on your behalf.

We've got a whole other level of corporate/government corruption going on here...just look at how Paulson and Goldman Sachs made billions on the whole bailout/tarp agenda...so I expect absolutely zero to come of it.

Not that our government isn't hip to the idea of penalizing illegal business activities, but you need to have your headquarters outside of our borders first :laugh:

 

[Forumpanda]

Originally posted by: IdontcareOn the flipside...its got to kinda irk you guys that this went on for 5 years before this government entity decided to do something about it on your behalf.

Indeed, presumably quite fair number of people must have been 'in the know' on this and I guess decided it was not thier job to do something about it.

Whenever news like this surfaces, I always hear someone misplay the free market card and argue that its the EU who are evil. This just further makes me scratch my head and be happy we didn't have cooperations this size around 5000 years ago, or we would still be licensing fire by paying 2 stone axes a week.

 

[MarcVenice]

Chances are Intel has been, and probably still is, using underhanded tactics to keep AMD from gaining marketshare.

And yes 1 billion = peanuts. It's a third of their 2008 profit, and 4,5% of their total income from that year. I find it sad that AMD won't be receiving it.

AMD has been hurt bad by this. Can you imagine if they had gained massive marketshare during the K8 vs P4 days? They could have had a lot more revenue, which could have translated in more money for R&D, better investments etc, which could have ment they would have been a better position right now, instead of a crappy one.

 

[LoneNinja]

Since so many people have mentioned cheap prices, lets not forget how over priced the E8XXX series is. I bet we see massive price drops once AMD releases their 45nm Athlon II.

 

[bobman0330]

Originally posted by: Forumpanda

Originally posted by: IdontcareOn the flipside...its got to kinda irk you guys that this went on for 5 years before this government entity decided to do something about it on your behalf.

Indeed, presumably quite fair number of people must have been 'in the know' on this and I guess decided it was not thier job to do something about it.

Whenever news like this surfaces, I always hear someone misplay the free market card and argue that its the EU who are evil. This just further makes me scratch my head and be happy we didn't have cooperations this size around 5000 years ago, or we would still be licensing fire by paying 2 stone axes a week.

I'm not a total free market zealot, but this decision is pretty hard to justify with modern antitrust economics. Vertical agreements (between producers and distributors) are just not very good at producing excess profits for firms. The EU is alleging that Intel increased its marketshare by paying its distributors. As long as its distributors are in a competitive market, that money (or at least a big chunk of it) ends up as lower prices to the consumer. Economically, it's not different from Intel just slashing prices.

You could make a predatory pricing argument, but it's laughable considering the scale of the alleged activities, and the fact that AMD was profitable at the end of the Netburst period.

 

[AdamK47]

Intel deserved it. It wasn't because Intel had better CPUs that major system builders stuck with them. AMD had a far superior product. Intels tactics when dealing with these companies was absolutely horrible.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Even though AMD doesn't get any of the money that Intel is fined, since Intel is now considered to be proven guilty of these dirty business practices, could AMD sue for x amount if they could prove that those business practices caused them to lose x amount of revenue/profit?

 

[craftech]

One of two things will happen. It will either be largely ignored by the US "news" networks or they will make excuses for the corporation and knock the EU for doing it. The last thing our "corporate" news media will do is give the details I heard on Radio Free Europe (I mean the BBC) this morning on XM. But,of course some of this will largely depend upon whether other more important news dominates the news cycle such as "Did Brittney Spears shave her head again"?, or "Did John Edwards get his $400 haircut before or after he cheated on his wife"?, or "Did Miss California really have a boob job"?.

John

 

[SChow]

Originally posted by: Golgatha

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
That is a nice way of making some money during a recession

Yes, let's take a good America based company and fine them 15% of their cash reserves. How about Intel just pulls all Intel products from the shelves in the EU instead? While we're at it, let's pull all Microsoft licenses at the same time.

Will never happen. Aside from all their legal obligations, the European market is simply bigger, and more profitable than the American market. Pulling out would be suicide.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Golgatha

I would love to see the backlash from EU companies against the EU commission, if all of a sudden they could not use MS or Intel products however.

AMD would *love* to see the backlash. We are trying to set up an interview with them