Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	8 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Arrow Lake Refresh (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Desktop Only	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2025 ?	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	8P + 32E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	?	8 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake



As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

This is a special binned and tuned model for handheld only. In a regular notebook most OEMs go for performance to gain just a few percent which require 20-40W more power, although I would expect a handheld OEM even with a regular SKU won't be so crazy.

This is still Phoenix APU.
Even If we talked about 7940HS limited to 35W, I don't think It would be that much worse, but you would need to use 6400mbps LPDDR5x instead of 5600mbps DDR5.

Meteor lake GT2 has an advantage in 33% more compute units, It should help a lot.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Videocardz

164U and 134U is the 9W version. I won't bother commenting the naming scheme.

 

[igor_kavinski]

164U and 134U is the 9W version. I won't bother commenting the naming scheme.

I think the higher numbers than 15W SKUs denote higher efficiency. They want to shift customer focus to battery life so 134U will have more battery life than 125U.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

I think the higher numbers than 15W SKUs denote higher efficiency. They want to shift customer focus to battery life so 134U will have more battery life than 125U.

For that HX, H, P and U were used.

 

[cebri1]

Naming is so confusing, everything being Core Ultra doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't it be better to call the top line (old i9 and i7) Ultra, only Core the mid line and something like Core Lite the low end?

Intel Core Ultra 1900M
Intel Core 1500M
Intel Core Lite 1100M

Also remove the H,S, the U, etc. One of the numbers can be used to indicate power envelope in mobile devices (maybe the last one, and the previous to indicate type of iGPU from 0 to 5 (max XE units).

Intel Core Ultra 1955M (best GPU (max execution units at top TDP), max TDP of the line)
Intel Core 1553M (max execution units running at lower frequencies)
Intel Core Lite 1121M

Of course you could simplify a lot by reducing the number of SKUs but at least it gives clear information. Desktop should be much easier.

Intel Core Ultra 1950K
Intel Core Ultra 1700K (without iGPU)
Intel Core 1550
Intel Core Lite 1050 (all e cores + full iGPU)

my 2c.

 

[jpiniero]

Because there is going to be Core (Non Ultra) 7,5,3...

 

[igor_kavinski]

Get rid of numbers altogether. Adopt animal names. Specifically kitties.

Core Ultra Lion 2023 (MT beast)
Core Ultra Cheetah 2023 (ST champion)
Core Ultra Felix Rex 2023 (well rounded cat that shreds whatever it encounters without burning too much power)
Core Ultra Itty Bitty KItty 2023 (keeps going and going and going yet not dog gone slow)

Now they can do this for the next 20 years without having to worry about branding. Just change the year whenever the new launch happens.

EDIT: funny thing. SD knows what Felix Rex looks like!

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[Joe NYC]

Naming is so confusing, everything being Core Ultra doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't it be better to call the top line (old i9 and i7) Ultra, only Core the mid line and something like Core Lite the low end?

Intel Core Ultra 1900M
Intel Core 1500M
Intel Core Lite 1100M

Also remove the H,S, the U, etc. One of the numbers can be used to indicate power envelope in mobile devices (maybe the last one, and the previous to indicate type of iGPU from 0 to 5 (max XE units).

Intel Core Ultra 1955M (best GPU (max execution units at top TDP), max TDP of the line)
Intel Core 1553M (max execution units running at lower frequencies)
Intel Core Lite 1121M

Of course you could simplify a lot by reducing the number of SKUs but at least it gives clear information. Desktop should be much easier.

Intel Core Ultra 1950K
Intel Core Ultra 1700K (without iGPU)
Intel Core 1550
Intel Core Lite 1050 (all e cores + full iGPU)

my 2c.

If anything is confusing, then Intel will just have to pony up more $$$ to "influencers" to explain it to us...

As far as Ultra, am I the only person for whom there is a name association with Michelob Ultra, which is literally the worst beer on the planet?

 

[SiliconFly]

Any info on MTL's power usage? It's kinda frustrating when Intel is keeping it a closely guarded secret.

Why so much secrecy?

 

[coercitiv]

Why so much secrecy?

Because it's so low, it could slip through the cracks.

 

[SiliconFly]

Because it's so low, it could slip through the cracks.

So true! 👍

 

[igor_kavinski]

So true! 👍

Charge the laptop once a month?

 

[eek2121]

Naming is so confusing, everything being Core Ultra doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't it be better to call the top line (old i9 and i7) Ultra, only Core the mid line and something like Core Lite the low end?

Intel Core Ultra 1900M
Intel Core 1500M
Intel Core Lite 1100M

Also remove the H,S, the U, etc. One of the numbers can be used to indicate power envelope in mobile devices (maybe the last one, and the previous to indicate type of iGPU from 0 to 5 (max XE units).

Intel Core Ultra 1955M (best GPU (max execution units at top TDP), max TDP of the line)
Intel Core 1553M (max execution units running at lower frequencies)
Intel Core Lite 1121M

Of course you could simplify a lot by reducing the number of SKUs but at least it gives clear information. Desktop should be much easier.

Intel Core Ultra 1950K
Intel Core Ultra 1700K (without iGPU)
Intel Core 1550
Intel Core Lite 1050 (all e cores + full iGPU)

my 2c.

Intel is missing an opportunity to completely rebrand IMO. Everything more efficient than Raptor Lake refresh could have been named something new.

Any info on MTL's power usage? It's kinda frustrating when Intel is keeping it a closely guarded secret.

Why so much secrecy?

Because they took a P-Die and turned it into an H-die and clocked it to the moon, driving up power consumption. It will be more efficient than Raptor Lake/Refresh, but how much is anyone’s guess.

The 9-15W segments will be interesting assuming Intel doesn’t end up with the same power issues as AMD’s chiplet designs have.

I am actually excited for Meteor Lake. It is basically slightly improved Raptor Lake at lower power. There are some slight regressions due to latency changes, but overall it provides a small increase in performance while providing a decent decrease in power consumption.

 

[SiliconFly]

Charge the laptop once a month?

Factory pre-charged. No further charging required.

 

[dullard]

Any info on MTL's power usage? It's kinda frustrating when Intel is keeping it a closely guarded secret.

Why so much secrecy?

Intel recently demoed gaming at just under 30 W.

Intel demos Meteor Lake integrated GPU running Dying Light 2 with XeSS - VideoCardz.com

Dying Light 2 runs smoothly on Meteor Lake iGPU with XeSS Intel recently showcased its upcoming Core Ultra 100 series, codenamed “Meteor Lake,” with a focus on gaming performance. This marks a significant move for Intel, which has been striving to compete with AMD in the low-power gaming arena...

videocardz.com

 

[SiliconFly]

Intel recently demoed gaming at just under 30 W.

Intel demos Meteor Lake integrated GPU running Dying Light 2 with XeSS - VideoCardz.com

Dying Light 2 runs smoothly on Meteor Lake iGPU with XeSS Intel recently showcased its upcoming Core Ultra 100 series, codenamed “Meteor Lake,” with a focus on gaming performance. This marks a significant move for Intel, which has been striving to compete with AMD in the low-power gaming arena...

videocardz.com

You mean the CPU tile & the GPU tile combined draws under 30W? Something doesn't add up.

When the cpu tile & the gpu tile are running full steam, shouldn't the MTL package draw more than 50W?

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

You mean the CPU tile & the GPU tile combined draws under 30W? Something doesn't add up.

When the cpu tile & the gpu tile are running full steam, shouldn't the MTL package draw more than 50W?

What doesn't add up?
If you limit TDP to 30W, then of course It won't draw 50W.

 

[SiliconFly]

What doesn't add up?
If you limit TDP to 30W, then of course It won't draw 50W.

Maybe thats the reason they didn't show the actual FPS

 

[H433x0n]

Maybe thats the reason they didn't show the actual FPS

It’s still pre-release. If they showed the FPS it’d be essentially spoiling the MTL iGPU perf before December 14th.

That being said, I doubt it’s high refresh rate gaming. Based on A380 perf, it’s probably ~30fps or so.

 

[HoveringStyle]

Because they took a P-Die and turned it into an H-die and clocked it to the moon

There was no such thing as a P-die, only the H series 6P/8E die and the U-series 2P/8E die, P-series chips are basically just better binned H-series i5s with a power limit and didn't perform any better than a fully enabled H chip at the same "TDP".

In all their presentations of Meteor Lake so far Intel has only showed comparisons at 28W, that, coupled with the complete lack of leaks of Meteor Lake P could suggest they abandoned that branding, and the H suffix might now mean 28W rather than 45W.

 

[SiliconFly]

Intel has started shipping MTL to OEMs. We should start seeing more MTL info soon.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Intel Meteor Lake Core Ultra 9 SKUs reportedly launching next year - VideoCardz.com

Core Ultra 9 slipping to 2024, Core 5 and Core 7 on December 14th The initial lineup of Core Ultra 100 processors may lack 9 models, claims Chinese media and reviewer “金猪升级包/Golden Pig Upgrade” This media outlet was the first to reveal the upcoming Intel Core Ultra CPUs, some of which have...

videocardz.com

I hope at least ASUS has one Core Ultra 9 laptop available for reviews on December 14. It would suck to wait even more to find out what the best MTL chip can do.

 

[cebri1]

Intel Meteor Lake Core Ultra 9 SKUs reportedly launching next year - VideoCardz.com

Core Ultra 9 slipping to 2024, Core 5 and Core 7 on December 14th The initial lineup of Core Ultra 100 processors may lack 9 models, claims Chinese media and reviewer “金猪升级包/Golden Pig Upgrade” This media outlet was the first to reveal the upcoming Intel Core Ultra CPUs, some of which have...

videocardz.com

I hope at least ASUS has one Core Ultra 9 laptop available for reviews on December 14. It would suck to wait even more to find out what the best MTL chip can do.

If the difference is only frequency, cannot be that hard to extrapolate I imagine.

 

[SiliconFly]

Intel Meteor Lake Core Ultra 9 SKUs reportedly launching next year - VideoCardz.com

Core Ultra 9 slipping to 2024, Core 5 and Core 7 on December 14th The initial lineup of Core Ultra 100 processors may lack 9 models, claims Chinese media and reviewer “金猪升级包/Golden Pig Upgrade” This media outlet was the first to reveal the upcoming Intel Core Ultra CPUs, some of which have...

videocardz.com

I hope at least ASUS has one Core Ultra 9 laptop available for reviews on December 14. It would suck to wait even more to find out what the best MTL chip can do.

Well, MTL is not about performance for sure. I think someone leaked geekbench score of an MTL ES or QS and it wasn't very impressive. Don't remember the details though. On an average, we can expect performance to be marginally better than previous gen at best.

The MTL iGPU is also equivalent to A370M. Which puts it in 1650 Ti territory (with added RT). Not bad for an iGPU and definitely a solid improvement. Not entirely sufficient when it comes to real gaming, but a wonderful addition for casual gamers/average users.

The real exciting thing in MTL is the efficiency, but the idiots at Intel are still keeping it under wraps. Sad.

 

[igor_kavinski]

The real exciting thing in MTL is the efficiency, but the idiots at Intel are still keeping it under wraps. Sad.

I love it when you state the facts