Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	8 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Arrow Lake Refresh (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Desktop Only	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2025 ?	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	8P + 32E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	?	8 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake



As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

 

[FlameTail]

Also the fact that OLED screen on laptops typically have high resolutions (2.8K, 3K, 3.5K, 4K etc...) is a another punch in the gut for OLED laptops battery life.

 

[moinmoin]

Unfortunately for laptop OLEDs, much of the web uses a light background (i.e., high APL)

That's why I enforce dark mode on my phone and on laptop (through addons injecting CSS if necessary). But very good point that web browsing benchmarks ends up being a worst case for OLED screens if that's not being done. Makes the results pretty worthless.

 

[SiliconFly]

ikjadoon specifically stated that it was because of offline media playback being included in the test. I assume that means that the laptop doesn't have to actively download the media while playing it. Just a guess here, but does that mean that only the LPE cores and media engine is running and the rest of the CPU cores can shut down in this case?

Even with the CPU & GPU tiles shut down & only LPE cores running, MTL's performance was pretty much disappointing in many of the early test results. I think this is the first time we're seeing MTL beat the competition with such a wide margin in power efficiency. Also, I think we're gonna need a lot more test results just to be sure.

 

[Hitman928]

Even with the CPU & GPU tiles shut down & only LPE cores running, MTL's performance was pretty much disappointing in many of the early test results. I think this is the first time we're seeing MTL beat the competition with such a wide margin in power efficiency. Also, I think we're gonna need a lot more test results just to be sure.

If you watch the whole review, it's not a good showing. This is the same Asus laptop that other outlets have reviewed and it looks like Kitguru didn't get the updated firmware for the laptop because the performance is really bad, much worse than it should be. It does get decent battery life but that comes at a severe lack of performance and is also thanks to a larger (75 WHr) battery and a screen that can't go very bright so it saves some power (for an OLED at least). The battery life looks better than it is next to Kitguru's other laptops because the other top laptops they are comparing it to all come with discrete GPUs which decreases battery life. They don't have a single good comparable laptop in their review against contemporary laptops. This is not a good example for MTL. They should at least update the firmware and test again.

 

[mikk]

If you watch the whole review, it's not a good showing.

Maybe the known Asus regression from one of the last Windows/My Asus updates other people wrote about which affected several other tests like this one.

MyASUS is driving me crazy. The damned software keeps thinking my laptop is in battery saver, lowering the refresh rate and slowing the CPU. I'm going to try reinstalling Windows.

It looks like Windows updates are the culprit here, and @Microsoft's broken updates have murdered the performance of my brand new laptop to the point a 9th generation product is beating a 14th generation Meteor Lake CPU.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1744760828384199089

And I think you should check some results.
Windows update seems will keep the CPU in the battery saver mode for Asus laptops, it will reduce freq and perf.
It seems to appear in your result too, like this one.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1745507421215449128

 

[Hitman928]

Maybe the known Asus regression from one of the last Windows/My Asus updates other people wrote about which affected several other tests like this one.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1744760828384199089

https://twitter.com/x/status/1745507421215449128

Could be that as well. Either way, there's obviously something very wrong going on with their review unit.

 

[DavidC1]

Could be that as well. Either way, there's obviously something very wrong going on with their review unit.

At this rate, we'll have Lunar and Arrow before Meteorlake gets properly benched.

Lunarlake is a much more sensible design. The system level cache will actually do it's job in reducing SoC power, and Skymont acting like a mix between LPE core and E core is much better for power consumption too. It should be able to cover higher performance points than the LPE core, and it's on the same die for faster communication.

A dedicated core stack to save a mere 0.15W, I mean that's not far from a flop on your face.

 

[mikk]

Lunar Lake available in September?

L-mx promotion should start in may, release in June and availability in sep

Lunar will have 3x more design wins then meteor...

4-5x improvement in some ai workloads l-mx

https://twitter.com/x/status/1755161984012841114

https://twitter.com/x/status/1755096402114588857

 

[Saylick]

Lunar Lake available in September?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1755161984012841114

https://twitter.com/x/status/1755096402114588857

Who the heck is this Twitter person? Are they a legit leaker?

 

[uzzi38]

Lunar Lake available in September?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1755161984012841114

https://twitter.com/x/status/1755096402114588857

I think this is a safe assumption to go off.

 

[FlameTail]

Lunar Lake available in September?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1755161984012841114

https://twitter.com/x/status/1755096402114588857

What does 'design win' mean?

Also I am skeptical about LNL coming in September. That leaves MTl only like 9 months to shine?

 

[mikk]

What does 'design win' mean?

Also I am skeptical about LNL coming in September. That leaves MTl only like 9 months to shine?

It means Laptop models. However it's not clear to me what Intel compared, the entire MTL lineup or maybe just the U-lineup? And then we have to keep in mind MTL is not a full volume mobile launch, for Intel it's limited.

Sry let me CRT that statement, in may you will see some official performance numbers in one event.. and sep at innovation day it is released and available

He also said ARL-S "K" will be available in November and launch possibly in October. Non K ARL-S and mobile ARL next year. Basically a repeat of ADL-S and RPL-S.

 

[Kepler_L2]

It means Laptop models. However it's not clear to me what Intel compared, the entire MTL lineup or maybe just the U-lineup? And then we have to keep in mind MTL is not a full volume mobile launch, for Intel it's limited.



He also said ARL-S "K" will be available in November and launch possibly in October. Non K ARL-S and mobile ARL next year. Basically a repeat of ADL-S and RPL-S.

He's probably referring to the Windows 12 launch event and all the "AI PC" shilling that will ensue.

 

[SiliconFly]

...That leaves MTl only like 9 months to shine?

At this rate, even 9 months sounds like a lot!

 

[Tigerick]

LNL-U (4P+4E with integrated GPU) are mostly sitting on top of MTL-U (or ARL-U in the future due to 2P+8E). I think they will co-exist for a while....

 

[Abwx]

Lunar Lake available in September?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1755161984012841114

https://twitter.com/x/status/1755096402114588857

Where are the MTL design wins.?.

So far there were only some experimental laptops from two or three brands, basically that s a paper launch in disguise, so 3 x the designs wins means nothing at this point.

 

[Khato]

I imagine it's confusing for Intel to have notebooks available at launch when competitors 'launch' months ahead of actual availability. If it's any consolation, that more 'normal' delay is present on the majority of MTL based designs that were displayed at CES.

I will be amused that the 3x design wins for LNL was misinterpreted, though that's par for the course with leaks.

 

[igor_kavinski]

At this rate, we'll have Lunar and Arrow before Meteorlake gets properly benched.

Looks like this will be Intel's Lakefield experiment 2.0, just on a wider scale than their previous short-lived effort. I think 3.0 is where they finally get it right. So Lunar Lake.

 

[mikk]

He's probably referring to the Windows 12 launch event and all the "AI PC" shilling that will ensue.

He is clearly talking about Lunar Lake, no idea how you got to a Windows launch.

LNL-U (4P+4E with integrated GPU) are mostly sitting on top of MTL-U (or ARL-U in the future due to 2P+8E). I think they will co-exist for a while....

Technically it's LNL-MX.

Where are the MTL design wins.?.

So far there were only some experimental laptops from two or three brands, basically that s a paper launch in disguise, so 3 x the designs wins means nothing at this point.

Experimental? 2-3 what?

Meteor Lake: https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=6752_Core+Ultra+100
Hawk Point: https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=9690_Hawk+Point

You see the difference? Did you confuse AMD with Intel when you talk about 2-3 experimental laptops? You can brand every laptop generation from AMD to a paper generation when you talk like this.

 

[Kepler_L2]

He is clearly talking about Lunar Lake, no idea how you got to a Windows launch.




Technically it's LNL-MX.




Experimental? 2-3 what?

Meteor Lake: https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=6752_Core+Ultra+100
Hawk Point: https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=9690_Hawk+Point

You see the difference? Did you confuse AMD with Intel when you talk about 2-3 experimental laptops? You can brand every laptop generation from AMD to a paper generation when you talk like this.

Windows 12 launch will include HW shilling for "AI PCs" like Lunar Lake, Strix Point and X Elite.

 

[trivik12]

Where are the MTL design wins.?.

So far there were only some experimental laptops from two or three brands, basically that s a paper launch in disguise, so 3 x the designs wins means nothing at this point.

During CES we have laptops from all major vendors Lenovo, Dell and HP apart from Samsung/LG as well. Best buy has 11 laptops on sale and few more coming soon. Paper launch is Hawk Point. I have not seen a single laptop available so far 2 months after announcement.

 

[Abwx]

During CES we have laptops from all major vendors Lenovo, Dell and HP apart from Samsung/LG as well. Best buy has 11 laptops on sale and few more coming soon. Paper launch is Hawk Point. I have not seen a single laptop available so far 2 months after announcement.

There s not a single review at NBC, generaly they get samples from europeans and US offerings from big names once the devices are launched, if anything that s telling.

As for Hawk Point it will land first in hand held devices but there s already laptops available in France, and that s a country wich is generaly late in big names offerings.

Asus TUF Gaming A15 TUF507UV-LP007W, PC portable gamer créateur performant 15" 144Hz sous AMD Ryzen 9 8945HS avec GeForce RTX 4060

Notre avis sur l’Asus TUF Gaming A15 TUF507UV-LP007W Muni d’un processeur puissant AMD Hawk Point, l’Asus TUF Gaming A15 TUF507UV-LP007W est un PC portable gamer créateur à base de Ryzen 9 8945HS et de 16 Go de RAM performants qui accélèrent les traitements multimédia à l’image de la carte graphi

www.laptopspirit.fr

 

[Abwx]

Meteor Lake: https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=6752_Core+Ultra+100
Hawk Point: https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=9690_Hawk+Point

You see the difference? Did you confuse AMD with Intel when you talk about 2-3 experimental laptops? You can brand every laptop generation from AMD to a paper generation when you talk like this.

Most intel offerings are directly from manufacturers while AMD s ones are all from retailers, manufacturers offerings of Hawk Point are not listed even if they also sell those AMD s devices, so that s a hint that MTL is not more common than Hawk point despite the latter being launched later.

 

[jpiniero]

Most intel offerings are directly from manufacturers while AMD s ones are all from retailers

no

It is true that Meteor Lake isn't going to be all that high in volume.

 

[Tigerick]

Windows 12 launch will include HW shilling for "AI PCs" like Lunar Lake, Strix Point and X Elite.

Yeap, WiAdows 12 is pretty big launch for 3 CPU makers, any ideas how many TOPS LNL is having? Based on Pat saying PTL is having 2X TOPs, I am expecting around 30 TOPS?