Intel signed up another foundry customer

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
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http://www.eetimes.com/design/programmable-logic/4413236/Intel-to-make-22-nm-chips-for-Microsemi

Microsemi—which offers a broad range of chips for communications, defense, aerospace and industrial markets—becomes Intel's fifth publicly disclosed foundry customer, joining network processor provider Netronome and FPGA vendors Altera, Achronix and Tabula.

Intel reportedly has several more undisclosed foundry customers. Unconfirmed reports have said Intel could be making 22-nm ASICs for Cisco. Others said the PC chip giant may be working on a deal to make mobile processors for Apple, which is trying to reduce its foundry dependence on archrival Samsung.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
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ROFL...

maybe this is what they mean about intel and amd merger?

possibly amd is gonna borrow intel's fabs?

i can see the rumor starting at the fab going...

Worker1: WTF this is AMD's design!?!?!?!?
Worker2: well were making it in this fab, dont ask questions, dont expect answers.
Worker3: OH SHIT INTEL BOUGHT AMD!!!
 

R0H1T

Platinum Member
Jan 12, 2013
2,582
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This isn't much of a surprise as was reported on other sites that Intel is serious about this particular venture & I wouldn't be surprised if they make 22nm parts even for ARM chipmakers as they shift towards 14nm themselves.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
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91
Standard gov/defense/national security situation.

This is why US will never break up Intel too, the government knows it needs to secure its sole access to Intel's process technology and in ways that prevents any other country from doing the same.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
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This isn't much of a surprise as was reported on other sites that Intel is serious about this particular venture & I wouldn't be surprised if they make 22nm parts even for ARM chipmakers as they shift towards 14nm themselves.

Uh, no. The exception to this is enabling a competitor, and intel won't do that. They won't enable competitors, it would be outright stupid. They've stated as such in various engineer interviews.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
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http://www.pcworld.com/article/2037...oundry-competitors-with-new-ceo-krzanich.html

Intel has poured millions of dollars into smartphone and tablet chip development as it tries to take market share away from ARM, whose processors are used in most mobile devices. But Intel has a philosophy of not making chips that would enable competitors. “Intel is successfully pursuing strategic customers for foundry work, and will continue to do so. I don’t believe that Intel will work with competitors ever,” Kanter said.

Nvidia has asked intel for use of it's foundries, and as expected were told "let me think about it.. lol no.". Intel doesn't enable competitors. Why would intel give all ARM SOCs access to the most advanced processes in the world? Again, it would incredibly stupid. They would basically give their competitors a green light to produce a better product than intel for mobile products (eg tablets), using a 14nm intel process. Intel wants that market. Enabling a competitor to create a product with their foundries? Won't happen.
 
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blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
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Another:

http://www.electronista.com/articles/13/04/18/intel.will.not.fabricate.apple.arm.based.chip.designs/

Intel CEO Paul Otellini has poured cold water on recent speculation that it will fabricate ARM-based chips for Apple, reports CNet. An earlier report by Reuters indicated that the two companies had entered talks on the possibility, however, Otellini’s comments seem to suggest that a straight-forward chip fabrication deal is not on the table. In taking a question on the subject at Tuesday’s conference call, Otellini answered with a point blank, ‘No.’
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,387
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...This is why US will never break up Intel too, the government knows it needs to secure its sole access to Intel's process technology and in ways that prevents any other country from doing the same.

- Makes much sense, Ill buy that.
 

Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
1,206
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An idea that I always find amusing - what would happen to TSMC if Intel actually did open up its fabs to both the ARM and GPU companies for a node or two? Granted such would affect Samsung and GLF to some extent as well, but I don't imagine it would be as much. Whereas if TSMC suddenly didn't have customers happily paying a heavy premium to be on their leading edge process... how exactly would they finance both R&D and deployment of the next node? Because if they couldn't keep up their current pace and began to slip... well that'd be mission accomplished for Intel's foundry excursion! Just ensure that the manufacturing contracts have to be re-negotiated yearly and then start charging exorbitant prices per wafer once there's effectively nowhere else for the ARM and GPU companies to go.
 

2timer

Golden Member
Apr 20, 2012
1,803
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Standard gov/defense/national security situation.

This is why US will never break up Intel too, the government knows it needs to secure its sole access to Intel's process technology and in ways that prevents any other country from doing the same.

You're giving the government way too much credit.

They can't even defend the secrets for one of the biggest defense programs of all, the F-35 JSF.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
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An idea that I always find amusing - what would happen to TSMC if Intel actually did open up its fabs to both the ARM and GPU companies for a node or two? Granted such would affect Samsung and GLF to some extent as well, but I don't imagine it would be as much. Whereas if TSMC suddenly didn't have customers happily paying a heavy premium to be on their leading edge process... how exactly would they finance both R&D and deployment of the next node? Because if they couldn't keep up their current pace and began to slip... well that'd be mission accomplished for Intel's foundry excursion! Just ensure that the manufacturing contracts have to be re-negotiated yearly and then start charging exorbitant prices per wafer once there's effectively nowhere else for the ARM and GPU companies to go.

Wouldn't happen and for a bunch of reasons that probably only make sense to a fabless customer. Intel is not exactly known for their customer-centric mindset (and we aren't the customer, the OEMs are)

Being a foundry involves more than just opening the fab and telling people "have at it". It is very much a partnership with about 1/2 degree of business separation.

TSMC gets this, Intel has absolutely no idea what it takes because they aren't a real foundry nor are they a customer of a real foundry.

Saying Intel could do away with TSMC just because Intel has superior process tech, albeit very narrowly defined in component breadth, is like saying NASA could put Boeing to pasture just because NASA had the shuttle program.

The skillsets are just not that transferable as one would like to make it seem when one is writing a nice story for headline grabs.

NASA would suck at building the next 787 Dreamliner, and Intel would suck at trying to be the next TSMC for all the reasons that being TSMC is not simply a matter of having a fab with leading edge process tech inside.

You're giving the government way too much credit.

They can't even defend the secrets for one of the biggest defense programs of all, the F-35 JSF.

You are giving the government way to little credit if you think the smokescreen that is the F-35 JSF is "the prize"
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
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IMO - I really don't think intel is interested in "beating" TSMC. Their primary objective with their foundries is to advance their own product, everything else beyond that is a secondary objective. Intel sees business slowing down a bit, so they're trying to fill their foundries. At the same time, they don't want to help a competitor - helping a competitor is akin to shooting one's self in the foot. Obviously intel doesn't want to cede the mobile market that ARM SOCs (which are dominating), intel wants a piece of the mobile pie. Rather, they want all of the pie.

TSMC/GloFo can stay or go and it would make absolutely zero difference to intel. Being a foundry for everyone to use isn't their primary objective, really. This is also why they're super selective about who gets to use their own foundries now. ARM SOC makers won't be included, of course. The only case I can see for a mobile ARM SOC is perhaps Apple. I'd give that a 5% chance, and everyone else a 0% chance - intel has a more advanced process than TSMC or GloFo, and they can't give a competitor that advantage.
 
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Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
1,206
251
136
Wouldn't happen and for a bunch of reasons that probably only make sense to a fabless customer. Intel is not exactly known for their customer-centric mindset (and we aren't the customer, the OEMs are)

Being a foundry involves more than just opening the fab and telling people "have at it". It is very much a partnership with about 1/2 degree of business separation.

TSMC gets this, Intel has absolutely no idea what it takes because they aren't a real foundry nor are they a customer of a real foundry.

Saying Intel could do away with TSMC just because Intel has superior process tech, albeit very narrowly defined in component breadth, is like saying NASA could put Boeing to pasture just because NASA had the shuttle program.

The skillsets are just not that transferable as one would like to make it seem when one is writing a nice story for headline grabs.

NASA would suck at building the next 787 Dreamliner, and Intel would suck at trying to be the next TSMC for all the reasons that being TSMC is not simply a matter of having a fab with leading edge process tech inside.

The current pace of Intel's dabbling at being a foundry is certainly proof of the above. It's the whole "Crawl, walk, run" that Paul has mentioned on multiple occasions with respect to such. The internal stuff that Intel uses between design and manufacturing are almost certainly not just going to 'plug and play' with other company's design flows. But that's the reason for having started the process when they did, so that in a year or two from now they should have the flows in place from collaboration with their currently announced customers to be able to convince more companies to make the switch to their 10nm process.

Regardless, I know that it's not going to happen - I just find the thought amusing. It's going to be quite interesting to see how each of the players' process technology progresses... And I'm still debating what to make of the fact that Intel's being oddly quiet about their 14nm process.
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
5,216
1,589
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You are giving the government way to little credit if you think the smokescreen that is the F-35 JSF is "the prize"

lol yeah. I think a couple month ago I read an article here (europe) about this overpriced project but actually that thought never occurred to me...but it actually seems pretty obvious. On the other hand would not surprise me if costs just exploded due to incompetent project managers, eg. there is no "conspiracy".
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Ye, F35 is just a disaster. We all know how much the pirate contractors takes as well. But the entire project is on the verge of collapsing and countries backing out due to cost spiralling out of control.
 
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