Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,765
4,291
126
I though people around here buy K cpus to OC them? Turbo + TDP serve as yardsticks to maximum clocks and power consumption. I could not care less about short/long turbo power windows. If Intel certifies those chips to run 4.5Ghz turbo 1 core, that means each and every core in that chip is assured to clock to 4.5Ghz => means if you throw power out of window and cool the chip you can get all core turbo to 4.5Ghz.
The number of overclockers is pretty minimal despite what it seems like on these forums (on the order of less than 0.5% last I saw). The 7700K was a nice upgrade on its own vs the 7700 even if you don't overclock. 16.7% faster base (guaranteed worst performance) and 10% faster turbo for only 12% more money. Or in other words, a small but noticeably faster computer for the cost of a cheap night out.

I don't think that just because one core can reach 4.5 GHz that all cores can be assured to reach 4.5 GHz. That is a bit of a stretch since you could conceivably have one core that just isn't as good as the others. It just happened to be with the 7700K and 7740X that Intel has the single core and quad core turbo values almost the exact same. So with those two chips, Intel has already binned out chips that have differences between the cores. But that isn't the truth with other Intel chips. And it will be less and less the truth when you get more and more cores (the chance that one core isn't up to snuff increases with more cores).

I actually would love to see a massively high turbo. It'll be great for the short burst tasks that seem common in everyday typical computer use. But it would not be sustainable for very long. No problem with that as long as it goes back to a high base clock.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
7,123
16,511
136
I don't think that just because one core can reach 4.5 GHz that all cores can be assured to reach 4.5 GHz. That is a bit of a stretch since you could conceivably have one core that just isn't as good as the others.
The 7700K does not have a 4.5Ghz boost dedicated core, they must all be validated to reach this speed. It is with Turbo 3.0 that a single core is chosen.
 
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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,765
4,291
126
The 7700K does not have a 4.5Ghz boost dedicated core, they must all be validated to reach this speed. It is with Turbo 3.0 that a single core is chosen.
You are correct that the 7700K does not have a dedicated single core. But all of the links that I have seen show that the 7700K has a 4.5 GHz single core (which could theoretically be any of them) and a 4.4 GHz all core turbo.
http://www.overclockers.com/intel-i7-7700k-kaby-lake-cpu-review/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaby_Lake
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-kaby-lake-core-i7-7700k-i7-7700-i5-7600k-i5-7600,4870.html

When the chip has a 4.5 GHz single core turbo, and 4.4 GHz all core turbo, it isn't very shocking that you can get to 4.5 GHz all cores. JoeRambo set a pretty low bar there.
 

JoeRambo

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2013
1,814
2,105
136
When the chip has a 4.5 GHz single core turbo, and 4.4 GHz all core turbo, it isn't very shocking that you can get to 4.5 GHz all cores. JoeRambo set a pretty low bar there.

Erm, isn't my "bar" +500Mhz on top of Turbo? That is solid goal imo. 5Ghz for 7700K and 4.8*Ghz for 8700K?

* conservative translation of mr. Sweepr "higher than 4.2"
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,765
4,291
126
Erm, isn't my "bar" +500Mhz on top of Turbo? That is solid goal imo. 5Ghz for 7700K and 4.8*Ghz for 8700K?

* conservative translation of mr. Sweepr "higher than 4.2"
I was responding to this portion of your post:
If Intel certifies those chips to run 4.5Ghz turbo 1 core, that means each and every core in that chip is assured to clock to 4.5Ghz => means if you throw power out of window and cool the chip you can get all core turbo to 4.5Ghz.
Just because one core can hit a speed does NOT mean that all cores can hit a speed. Also, your post about hitting 4.5 GHz wasn't really that high of a bar. You did later say +500 MHz would be nice. But that wasn't the part that I was responding to.
 

JoeRambo

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2013
1,814
2,105
136
But that wasn't the part that I was responding to.

LoL... Talk about low bars, thankfully You did not choose your part to be symbol "4" only , as 4Ghz is even lower "bar" for Intel

My goal (for my desktop machines) is 5Ghz or performance equivalent to 5Ghz 7700K I am running already. That is if 8700K can do 4.7-4.8 i suspect i will be just fine with increased L3. I don't care about "turbo" limits, short or long: stability, sane wattage, sane voltage are priorities.
 

2blzd

Senior member
May 16, 2016
318
41
91
I was hoping Intel would adjust its prices in reaction to the price/performance of Ryzen and Threadripper.

This is extremely disappointing.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
16,132
6,594
136
I was hoping Intel would adjust its prices in reaction to the price/performance of Ryzen and Threadripper.

This is extremely disappointing.

They did.

I am 99% sure this was the intended pricing lineup for SKX/KBX:

7900X: $1699
7820X: $1099
6C12T with full PCIe: $649
7800X: $449
7740X: $380
7640X $280
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,538
12,404
136
yes, if the software fully use the core then HT can actually can hurt and resulting in negative scaling, its even can be worsened by making the CPU generating more heat and causing the cpu not gaining maximum turbo frequency.

Um.

So are you saying that a sustained workload that's so tightly-coded that it keeps the entire pipeline so full as to prevent HT from having any value whatsoever (linpack maybe?) can be run over very long periods - weeks, months - at some turbo frequency?
 

Edrick

Golden Member
Feb 18, 2010
1,939
230
106
Running any drive through the PCH is going to cap your speed to the x4 DMI rate (minus overhead and other things running through it like LAN, USB and SATA). That goes with any board (X299, Z270, Z170, etc.). You will need to buy a PCIe m.2 card and leverage your CPU PCIe lanes in order to get the MAX performance from your m.2 devices. https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboard-Accessory/HYPER_M2_X4_MINI_CARD/

Ok, so I went adead and purchased the ASUS Hyper m.2 adapter to test out my Samsung 960 Pro using CPU PCIe lanes versus the DMI lanes on the motherboard.

Same setup, same drive, same OS. Simply took the drive out of one slot and installed it in another. Results are below.

Using DMI lanes on motherboard:



Not too bad and I was happy with those numbers until we started discussing it in this thread. So below are the same tests run on the same drive using the $20 ASUS card in my second PCIe x16 slot.




Now I did not take a Crystal Mark score before moving the drive, but my scores we slightly lower than AdamK47's. Here is the score after:



Interesting. I am not sure AS SSD is showing accurate values, but the delta is the important thing to note. Probably the best $20 spent on my rig so far.
 
Last edited:

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,653
3,518
136
I wonder why m.2 drives are slower through the PCH with Skylake-X compared to Kaby Lake-X using the same PCH.
 

Edrick

Golden Member
Feb 18, 2010
1,939
230
106
I wonder why m.2 drives are slower through the PCH with Skylake-X compared to Kaby Lake-X using the same PCH.

I just reran the test with flush caching turned off. When I switched ports, it turned it on by default (thought it was a new drive).

 
Last edited:

Edrick

Golden Member
Feb 18, 2010
1,939
230
106
The only major differences between yours and mine now are the 4K single threaded results.

Is yours your boot drive?

Also, I was running 2 drives in my m.2 slots on my MB (DMI), so maybe that hurt performance.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,538
12,404
136
So the major performance deficit seems to be in sequential operations, with a moderate deficit in 4k write. Everything seems about the same.

Hmm wonder if this is a mesh vs ring DMI interface thingy? Or am I just reaching here?
 
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TahoeDust

Senior member
Nov 29, 2011
557
404
136
I have two m.2 drives in Raid 0 as my boot drive. The performance is less than awesome. I have two Asus m.2 PCIe adapter cards. Can I install them into two pcie slots and still use them in raid and be bootable?
 

wahdangun

Golden Member
Feb 3, 2011
1,007
148
106
Um.

So are you saying that a sustained workload that's so tightly-coded that it keeps the entire pipeline so full as to prevent HT from having any value whatsoever (linpack maybe?) can be run over very long periods - weeks, months - at some turbo frequency?

yes



there is no magic bullet in HT, the sole purpose of it was to better utilization. and the transistor for HT function is not free, they still generating heat if it was ever used.
 
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