Interesting Medical Idea

[TheVrolok]

Tell me something. Why are you attending medical school? Is it because you truly want to help people, or is it because you want to make a lot of money?

Another common line from someone who's ignorant about the environment of medicine/medical education today. Quite frankly, even insinuating that we're doing it for the money is insulting. Are there some? I'm sure, but there are bad apples in every bunch, do you use them to judge the entirety? Of course not. Not to mention, depending on your specialization (if at all), the money isn't exactly huge, especially in relation to the amount of effort put in to become a physician (in both time AND money). Will even the poor paid physicians make decent money? Yeah, it won't be bad money, but it's not going to be mansion/Mercedes Benz money either.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Tell me something. Why are you attending medical school? Is it because you truly want to help people, or is it because you want to make a lot of money?

lol if i wanted to make money, i'd have picked something else. spending my 20s and hundreds of thousands of dollars so i can work 60 hours to 70 hrs a week doing mentally stimulating work dealing with people's lives, or at least well being, and making $250k a year sounds real fucking fantastic.

Why do you keep avoiding my question?

damn playa, i was typing up my previous post...check the time between your post and mine. anyway, i'm supposed to be studying for my internal medicine and surgery shelfs that i have next week. can't wait to get to the chapter on extending illnesses to make cash money.

Pic related: me

 

[JimW1949]

I guess I get it now, you guys know everything there is to know and I am ignorant about everything. Doctors are wonderful people who never do anything wrong and our medical system is simply great and the whole system is run by completely honest people. OK, I got it. Thanks for setting me straight.

 

[TheVrolok]

I guess I get it now, you guys know everything there is to know and I am ignorant about everything. Doctors are wonderful people who never do anything wrong and our medical system is simply great and the whole system is run by completely honest people. OK, I got it. Thanks for setting me straight.

I've already said I don't know everything, Hell, you can quote me from above. Unfortunately, though, you are indeed ignorant of a great many facts. I don't claim it's on purpose, it's not your fault, it's a complex issue and it's not very transparent to those outside. I've also said that the system is broken, and implied that I don't think the businessmen making a lot of the big calls have the best intentions for patients, so I'm not sure where you're coming from there. Do you just revert to this when presented with strong counter argument?

 

[Inspector Jihad]

I guess I get it now, you guys know everything there is to know and I am ignorant about everything. Doctors are wonderful people who never do anything wrong and our medical system is simply great and the whole system is run by completely honest people. OK, I got it. Thanks for setting me straight.

we call all talk in hyperbole if you prefer. but in any case, i'm saying most doctors wouldn't compromise their profession for money. some will, but most wouldn't. also, doing the things you said is like insider trading, it'll make you rich quickly but there are legal, medical and financial watchdogs that monitor those situations and bring the hammer down hard. the doctors doing these immoral and unethical practices usually do get caught. if you do feel like you're not getting proper care, get a second opinion or talk to a lawyer if you feel like its grossly inadequate.

 

[JimW1949]

There isn't much point in my continuing this debate, so this will be my last post in this thread. You guys keep telling me I am ignorant of the facts, so there is little point in continuing. What you fail to mention is, what facts am I ignorant of? Everything I have told you is the exact truth. If I have said anything that was not true, please tell me what it is.

Do either of you deny there is a financial incentive for a doctor to see a patient more than once?

Do you deny that between the medical insurance claims fraud and the Medicare/Medicaid claims fraud, the total amounts to many billions of dollars per year? Who do you think is responsible for the fraud? The Janitor?

Do you deny that patients get asked for their insurance card before they are asked anything else? Doesn't that tell you right up front the first concern of the medical clinic is money?

If you believe I have been anything but completely honest with everything I have said, then I suggest that you do your own research. You will quickly find that everything I have said is the exact truth.

So please tell me, exactly what facts am I ignorant of?

 

[Inspector Jihad]

There isn't much point in my continuing this debate, so this will be my last post in this thread. You guys keep telling me I am ignorant of the facts, so there is little point in continuing. What you fail to mention is, what facts am I ignorant of? Everything I have told you is the exact truth. If I have said anything that was not true, please tell me what it is.

Do either of you deny there is a financial incentive for a doctor to see a patient more than once?

Do you deny that between the medical insurance claims fraud and the Medicare/Medicaid claims fraud, the total amounts to many billions of dollars per year? Who do you think is responsible for the fraud? The Janitor?

Do you deny that patients get asked for their insurance card before they are asked anything else? Doesn't that tell you right up front the first concern of the medical clinic is money?

If you believe I have been anything but completely honest with everything I have said, then I suggest that you do your own research. You will quickly find that everything I have said is the exact truth.

So please tell me, exactly what facts am I ignorant of?

perhaps you could comment on my post.

 

[Mo0o]

There isn't much point in my continuing this debate, so this will be my last post in this thread. You guys keep telling me I am ignorant of the facts, so there is little point in continuing. What you fail to mention is, what facts am I ignorant of? Everything I have told you is the exact truth. If I have said anything that was not true, please tell me what it is.

Do either of you deny there is a financial incentive for a doctor to see a patient more than once?

Do you deny that between the medical insurance claims fraud and the Medicare/Medicaid claims fraud, the total amounts to many billions of dollars per year? Who do you think is responsible for the fraud? The Janitor?

Do you deny that patients get asked for their insurance card before they are asked anything else? Doesn't that tell you right up front the first concern of the medical clinic is money?

If you believe I have been anything but completely honest with everything I have said, then I suggest that you do your own research. You will quickly find that everything I have said is the exact truth.

So please tell me, exactly what facts am I ignorant of?

If doctors only get paid by healthy patients, it'll create an incentive for physicians to only pick young healthy patients, leaving an even larger bulk of the silk, elderly and indigent to the free clinics and public hospital systems.

A doctor with a full patient panel is better served seeing different patients, and thereby maintaining contact w/ more patients, than by having the same patient come back. And it's important to note that really short followup visits do not bill for very much and doctors can make more money in visits with more pressng issues.

There are pay model already where hospitals/doctors get paid a lump sum for each diagnosis during a hospital stay. This creates an incentive for the doctor to speed the patient through the inpatient process as quickly as possible. The longer the stay, the less the hospital makes, the lower the hourly rate of the doctor's services would be.

 

[SirStev0]

perhaps you could comment on my post.

Don't you understand... there's fraud going on!
Won't someone please think of the children?!?!

 

[TheVrolok]

Do either of you deny there is a financial incentive for a doctor to see a patient more than once?

Of course it exists, we haven't denied that, we've simply stated that in reality, it's a pretty poor argument to say that physicians are negligent in their treatment in order to increase return visits because of a large amount of additional factors.

This same argument could be made for nearly any service industry, except that those industries do not involve being directly personally responsible for the lives of others in an intimate fashion.

Do you deny that between the medical insurance claims fraud and the Medicare/Medicaid claims fraud, the total amounts to many billions of dollars per year? Who do you think is responsible for the fraud? The Janitor?

Many nurses, PAs, PTs, Chiropractors, billing managers, insurance companies, etc. etc. etc. are just as responsible as physicians. But like I said when I addressed this earlier, does the exception prove the rule?

Do you deny that patients get asked for their insurance card before they are asked anything else? Doesn't that tell you right up front the first concern of the medical clinic is money?

Of course they do, but no, it does NOT imply that the first concern is money. The first concern of a physician is excellent patient care, and guess what? It costs money, he/she cannot provide care if he/she cannot pay for it. Guess what happens where I've worked when someone says, "Oh, I don't have insurance." Absolutely nothing, they sit down and are seen just like anyone else. If you can't appropriately separate the need to handle business from the need to handle patient care, I don't know what to say.

If you believe I have been anything but completely honest with everything I have said, then I suggest that you do your own research. You will quickly find that everything I have said is the exact truth.

So please tell me, exactly what facts am I ignorant of?

Your problem is that you're using incredibly oversimplified arguments that don't address the depth of the actual problems. We have already listed our qualifications in the matter, what are yours? You must have some incredible background as anything we say is wrong, and whatever you say is the complete truth and inarguable.

 

[TheVrolok]

Don't you understand... there's fraud going on!
Won't someone please think of the children?!?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHZ79InLGRY

 

[SirStev0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHZ79InLGRY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

 

[magomago]

...you know pneumonia and the common cold are VIRUSES. There is no medication for that, and unless you really get bad to where you have edema and need to be admitted to the ICU, the doctor can't give you anything beyond advice to rest a lot and stay hydrated.

I believe that sometimes certain treatments are due to $$$ (see many things related to pharma), but give the doctors credit where its due, ESPECIALLY with things outside their control like fucking viruses

Medicine and Healthcare is definitely a for profit system, but, as a whole, the profession (both industry that supports hospitals through medical devices and to a lesser extent pharmacy; sorry but i have some skepticism about a pill for everything...) is about seeing as many patients as possible, because like sitsteve0 pointed out - there is an abundance of sick people. Yet day in and day out hospitals will take in patients regardless of their financial status, yet day in and day out hospitals will go to great lengths to discharge people they believe don't need to be there (bedspace and rooms are valuable real estate). If a hospital or a doctor does well, word of mouth spreads around because it means they are EFFECTIVE; if you pay attention to the industry, they don't use words like "Goal Directed Therapies" because it sounds like high powered business BS, they do that because they are thinking of the safest and best way to allow a patient to recover.

 

[Mo0o]

...you know pneumonia and the common cold are VIRUSES. There is no medication for that, and unless you really get bad to where you have edema and need to be admitted to the ICU, the doctor can't give you anything beyond advice to rest a lot and stay hydrated.

I believe that sometimes certain treatments are due to $$$ (see many things related to pharma), but give the doctors credit where its due, ESPECIALLY with things outside their control like fucking viruses

Medicine and Healthcare is definitely a for profit system, but, as a whole, the profession (both industry that supports hospitals through medical devices and to a lesser extent pharmacy; sorry but i have some skepticism about a pill for everything...) is about seeing as many patients as possible, because like sitsteve0 pointed out - there is an abundance of sick people. Yet day in and day out hospitals will take in patients regardless of their financial status, yet day in and day out hospitals will go to great lengths to discharge people they believe don't need to be there (bedspace and rooms are valuable real estate). If a hospital or a doctor does well, word of mouth spreads around because it means they are EFFECTIVE; if you pay attention to the industry, they don't use words like "Goal Directed Therapies" because it sounds like high powered business BS, they do that because they are thinking of the safest and best way to allow a patient to recover.

What?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumonia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumonia#Treatment

 

[PhoKingGuy]

I guess I get it now, you guys know everything there is to know and I am ignorant about everything. Doctors are wonderful people who never do anything wrong and our medical system is simply great and the whole system is run by completely honest people. OK, I got it. Thanks for setting me straight.

Feel free to self diagnose yourself through webMD since you think you know everything better than those trained to do so.

Everything said is basically true, I am currently an assistant department administrator for a rather large hospital in LA county. We set goals for patient satisfaction with treatment/misdiagnosis rates/etc....we are currently trending in the high 90s. Yes part of my job is to maximize the amount of patients we see in a day, but when we have waiting lists of up to 2 -3 months long for elective procedures from individual patients you need to do that in order to keep things moving.

Many of the docs I work with work extended clinic hours, voluntarily add in nonpaid time to finish cases, work 7-8 surgeries a day with only a 30 minute break for lunch in order to get their patients out the door. Keep in mind, we don't require them to do this, it is strictly on their own accord.

Please stop spreading your FUD, its mostly not true

 

[brainhulk]

this thread is reminding me of my Advanced Cardiac Life Support exam. The instructor asked my what I should check before I do anything to the patient. I said, "ask if the pt has insurance?" Everybody laughed, and he said alright, you pass.

 

[Mo0o]

this thread is reminding me of my Advanced Cardiac Life Support exam. The instructor asked my what I should check before I do anything to the patient. I said, "ask if the pt has insurance?" Everybody laughed, and he said alright, you pass.

Dont even ask the patient. Just do a wallet biopsy

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Dont even ask the patient. Just do a wallet biopsy

:thumbsup:

 

[Taejin]

My wife has a really bad cold. She started with a cold, then developed pneumonia. She got over the pneumonia, and now all she has is a really bad cold. This has been going on for well over two weeks now. We are now both retired so it isn't like she is missing work or anything like that, but still, it is a real pain to have a terrible cold. And to make matters worse, now I have a bad cold too, so we are pretty much stuck to the house.

Anyway, I was thinking about something. I know there is no real cure for the common cold, and having had pneumonia certainly didn't help any either. But the thing is, as a general rule of thumb, if someone becomes ill and goes to see the doctor, what incentive does the doctor have to make you well right away? What I am getting at is, if you are sick, either you or your insurance company are paying the doctor. When you get well yo stop going to see the doctor and at that point the doctor stops getting paid. So what incentive does the doctor have to make you well real quick?

Now don't get me wrong here, I am not saying doctors are crooked and are trying to keep you sick for as long as they can so they can make more money off of you. All I am saying is, there is less incentive to make you well quickly than there is to take more time to get you well. The longer it takes before you get well, the more times the doctor sees you, and the more times he gets paid. I have no idea whether doctors see it this way or not, but regardless of how doctors view it, this is the reality of the situation.

Now think about this for a minute, what would happen if everybody paid their doctor when they were well? Then, when they get sick, they stop paying their doctor until they get well. Now the doctor has a rather big incentive to get you well as soon as possible. The sooner you are well, the sooner you start paying again.

I have no idea if this "pay your doctor when you are well" type of system would work out or not, there may be some complications to it, but it is just something I thought about because my wife has been fighting this cold/pneumonia thing for awhile.

P&N -> ATOT at the request of the OP
-Schadenfroh

this system is already in place in china, iirc (for traditional chinese medicine)

nice try tho

 

[JTsyo]

While I doubt doctors would do this, I've heard that pharmacy companies put more effort into chronic medications rather than cures. Since they are a business, they look after their bottom line.

 

[brainhulk]

Dont even ask the patient. Just do a wallet biopsy

u mean walletectomy, biopsy you have to wait for pathology

 

[SirStev0]

u mean walletectomy, biopsy you have to wait for pathology

Since we have now moved into joking...

Do you know that a trip to the Doctor is the best cure for Sciatica;

Thin out that bulging wallet a little bit and that numbness and tingling from sitting on it all day goes away...