iPhone 5S/5C thread

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Hardly, A4 was a lower clocked Hummingbird therefore inherently slower, A5 was slower than the older Exynos 4210 at launch and A6 was slower than Snapdragon S4, most review sites did their best to hide the latter fact by passing garbage like javascript browser tests and Java vs native builds of linpack off as valid tests when they were anything but.

As far as this time being up to 2x as fast as A6 isn't going to cut it against Snapdragon 800 or Exynos 5420.

I don't get why the Android camp is so obsessed with raw CPU speed. You're right java benchmarks are probably not the best tests, but I do wonder why every site does it. Perhaps someone more technically minded can explain?

But furthermore, as others have said user experience matters. Maybe my Galaxy S2 is faster than the iPhone 4S in loading Facebook or loading Twitter, but even the best browser like AOSP Browser won't save me from a lagfest. Chrome, the standard browser lags like hell even on a fast device like the Nexus 4.

I liked my experience on the S2, but it was far from ideal. It was never 60 fps smooth especially compared to the newer devices, and basic UI operations would stutter. So maybe Apple does cover that up better with transitions and stuff, but it's the whole package that matters in the end. Apple doesn't need the most bleeding edge CPU to deliver a decent experience.

I'd argue that up til the quad core Kraits, Androids needed the CPU power and RAM to deliver a decent user experience.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Up till now Apple has put forth a competitive SoC (well the iPhone 4 one sucked, but besides that).

If this breaks the trend (IE is much slower than Q800) and instead we get marketing numbers related to a 64 transition that won't affect a user within the life of the 5S anyway then it's disappointing.

We will see.

Well the 4S wasn't amazing and this guy below thinks Apple's SoCs are outdated anyway (except the 5)

Hardly, A4 was a lower clocked Hummingbird therefore inherently slower, A5 was slower than the older Exynos 4210 at launch and A6 was slower than Snapdragon S4, most review sites did their best to hide the latter fact by passing garbage like javascript browser tests and Java vs native builds of linpack off as valid tests when they were anything but.

As far as this time being up to 2x as fast as A6 isn't going to cut it against Snapdragon 800 or Exynos 5420.

The 3GS was the fastest thing at launch and the 5 was too. But honestly that's not the point. You could make these arguments for the Nexus too. The N1 was the first of its kind. The Nexus S was launched at the sunset of single core processors and got a lukewarm reception. The Galaxy Nexus was launched with a crippled GPU compared to the competition (GS2 Exynos), but the Nexus 4 was the fastest thing there was (ok the Optimus G came a little before, but at least the N4 was one of the first quad Kraits). It's just the timing of product development cycles and how the SoCs happen to fit in.

The problem with always talking about CPU is that it's an Android thing. It takes a Krait or A15 to run the OS smoothly. We're finally turning the corner where CPUs are "fast enough," and we're not in a position where the hardware isn't there for the software. iOS was never tasked with this problem. The iPhone 4 at its time felt just as snappy as the iPhone 5 today.

While CPU bumps are nice, I think we're applying the Android mentality of "omg I need the fastest CPU NAO" too much. Windows Phone and iOS have shown to run fine on older CPUs. The same older CPUs running Android would feel like a lagfest.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Well the 4S wasn't amazing and this guy below thinks Apple's SoCs are outdated anyway (except the 5)

The GPU was pretty great at the time.

We will see about the 5S. If the CPU and GPU are weaker than the 800 color me disappointed.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

The GPU was pretty great at the time.

We will see about the 5S. If the CPU and GPU are weaker than the 800 color me disappointed.

It is, but very few people actually task the GPU that much. These GPU specs really only matter for those playing 3D games, which is a small population.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's weaker than the 800 but at the same time my iPhone 5 feels blazing fast. I'd have to see how much faster an 800 is over my Nexus 4, but given the speed of my iPhone 5, I'm not too worried about the next generation being a disappointment. Isn't an 800 just an A15-type on steroids? Is it that much faster? Maybe we're just in the middle of a cycle for the SoCs so there really isn't that much to expect in change.

 

[Oyeve]

Any one else wondering why no NFC? I am disappointed that its not there. I use it all the time, and not just with samsung phones.

 

[TerryMathews]

Well the 4S wasn't amazing and this guy below thinks Apple's SoCs are outdated anyway (except the 5)



The 3GS was the fastest thing at launch and the 5 was too. But honestly that's not the point. You could make these arguments for the Nexus too. The N1 was the first of its kind. The Nexus S was launched at the sunset of single core processors and got a lukewarm reception. The Galaxy Nexus was launched with a crippled GPU compared to the competition (GS2 Exynos), but the Nexus 4 was the fastest thing there was (ok the Optimus G came a little before, but at least the N4 was one of the first quad Kraits). It's just the timing of product development cycles and how the SoCs happen to fit in.

The problem with always talking about CPU is that it's an Android thing. It takes a Krait or A15 to run the OS smoothly. We're finally turning the corner where CPUs are "fast enough," and we're not in a position where the hardware isn't there for the software. iOS was never tasked with this problem. The iPhone 4 at its time felt just as snappy as the iPhone 5 today.

While CPU bumps are nice, I think we're applying the Android mentality of "omg I need the fastest CPU NAO" too much. Windows Phone and iOS have shown to run fine on older CPUs. The same older CPUs running Android would feel like a lagfest.

The problem is simple when you look at what the OSes do.

Android is a real modern Operating System. It is multiuser with preemptive multitasking, a TCP/IP stack, the ability to host services, and a page file.

IOS is the penultimate evolution of the PalmOS. Recently it has some rudimentary task switching but it is not really a multitasking operating system. It doesn't offer the same set of features as a contemporary operating system.

Please note I am not making judgment calls here. I am not saying one is worse than the other. They are simply different design philosophies.

Google believes that even in handheld devices, we will grow to the point where we want the full set of features we expect and that it's better to just build the framework now vs add on as we go.

Time will tell who is right, although I will point out that adding on to the MacOS got it to the point where they has to start over.

 

[poofyhairguy]

It is, but very few people actually task the GPU that much. These GPU specs really only matter for those playing 3D games, which is a small population.

Might grow quickly with iOS's controller support.

Apple changed the game on mobile gaming with the iPad 2 GPU. It took Android two years to catch up.

I would love to see Apple have another boost like that.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I don't get why the Android camp is so obsessed with raw CPU speed. You're right java benchmarks are probably not the best tests, but I do wonder why every site does it. Perhaps someone more technically minded can explain?

But furthermore, as others have said user experience matters. Maybe my Galaxy S2 is faster than the iPhone 4S in loading Facebook or loading Twitter, but even the best browser like AOSP Browser won't save me from a lagfest. Chrome, the standard browser lags like hell even on a fast device like the Nexus 4.

I liked my experience on the S2, but it was far from ideal. It was never 60 fps smooth especially compared to the newer devices, and basic UI operations would stutter. So maybe Apple does cover that up better with transitions and stuff, but it's the whole package that matters in the end. Apple doesn't need the most bleeding edge CPU to deliver a decent experience.

I'd argue that up til the quad core Kraits, Androids needed the CPU power and RAM to deliver a decent user experience.

Most sites run java benchmarks because they either genuinely don't understand the importance of native code for low level tests like linpack etc or they are trying to paint a skewed perspective of Android devices performance. Javascript benchmarks are even worse since it's well known that everyone optimizes for the popular ones.

When I buy a phone I want to know exactly how all of my options stack up on performance. Since 8/10 new phones run Android most of the competition will be between them but I don't think that gives apple a free pass to not be judged the same way. After all they are a SOC maker now, you would think people would want to know how good they are at it.

 

[Eug]

The problem is simple when you look at what the OSes do.

Android is a real modern Operating System. It is multiuser with preemptive multitasking, a TCP/IP stack, the ability to host services, and a page file.

And it's also an OS that does a lousy job of managing those features in a mobile device, where battery life matters.

Apple has a draconian method of managing that stuff, to the point of pissing of developers, but personally I prefer it, because I don't get runaway apps on iOS devices sucking the battery dry.

 

[badb0y]

The 5C is too expensive for what it is and this is the last year that Apple can get away with this incremental update.

I have an iPhone 5 and love it but they didn't give me any reason to upgrade at all.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Most sites run java benchmarks because they either genuinely don't understand the importance of native code for low level tests like linpack etc or they are trying to paint a skewed perspective of Android devices performance. Javascript benchmarks are even worse since it's well known that everyone optimizes for the popular ones.

When I buy a phone I want to know exactly how all of my options stack up on performance. Since 8/10 new phones run Android most of the competition will be between them but I don't think that gives apple a free pass to not be judged the same way. After all they are a SOC maker now, you would think people would want to know how good they are at it.

Can you not run Linpack for iOS? We used to spit out Linpack numbers for Android phones, but it looks like no one even benches that anymore... It's a weird transition.

 

[ponyo]

Even though I hate the long shape and small screen size of the 5S, I will order two on the 20th. My wife needs a new iPhone as her old 4s is acting up so we're joining AT&T. I like the camera on the 5S and camera quality is near the top of the most important feature for me. I'll see if I can tolerate iOS and the iPhone. I plan to get Nexus 5 later this year so I might switch back then.

 

[annomander]

The problem is simple when you look at what the OSes do.

Android is a real modern Operating System. It is multiuser with preemptive multitasking, a TCP/IP stack, the ability to host services, and a page file.

IOS is the penultimate evolution of the PalmOS. Recently it has some rudimentary task switching but it is not really a multitasking operating system. It doesn't offer the same set of features as a contemporary operating system.

Please note I am not making judgment calls here. I am not saying one is worse than the other. They are simply different design philosophies.
.

what you are about, iOS is a unix, it could be fully multitasking if it wanted to but utilizes the parts needed, weighed by battery life and usability.

Its built as a phone OS, not desktop OS

if anything, iOS is a much cleaner clear design, as shown by how much more optimized it is.

 

[Mopetar]

I just want a new keyboard/swype. I mean Jesus, its long overdue and maybe a way to kill all apps, like task killer. Damnit apple

I doubt that they'll ever add new keyboards or even support for them. With Siri getting better they probably want people to start using that more often.

As for a task killer, why do you need one? Most apps that aren't actually running some background task (e.g. playing music, getting movement data, etc.) are suspended and not actually using any resources. It really wouldn't serve much of a purpose.

You're right java benchmarks are probably not the best tests, but I do wonder why every site does it. Perhaps someone more technically minded can explain?

Because it's an easy benchmark to perform that runs on just about everything.

Any one else wondering why no NFC? I am disappointed that its not there. I use it all the time, and not just with samsung phones.

It's not widely implemented in a way that's useful for most people. Even some of the people who were excited about NFC on these forums have come to the conclusion that's it's not all it was made up to be.

I imagine that Apple will come out with a competing solution within the next few years. They're already doing some similar things like their sharing service that they said could send photos to any other iPhone in range.

Now that they've got what I'm assuming will be a pretty good authentication method (they're using it for both log-in and purchases on their store, so they seem to be confident in it to some degree) I don't think it will be long before they look into expanding that so you can make payments with your phone for other services.

 

[TerryMathews]

what you are about, iOS is a unix, it could be fully multitasking if it wanted to but utilizes the parts needed, weighed by battery life and usability.

Its built as a phone OS, not desktop OS

if anything, iOS is a much cleaner clear design, as shown by how much more optimized it is.

IOS is not preemptively multitasking. The code isn't there.

You're lashing out at a point I fully acknowledged. They are two fundamentally different design philosophies. You clearly have your preference, and you are entitled. Now please come down off your high horse and acknowledge that not everyone has the same preferences as you.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

And it's also an OS that does a lousy job of managing those features in a mobile device, where battery life matters.

Apple has a draconian method of managing that stuff, to the point of pissing of developers, but personally I prefer it, because I don't get runaway apps on iOS devices sucking the battery dry.

Yet the phones with the best battery life run Android not iOS.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

Can you not run Linpack for iOS? We used to spit out Linpack numbers for Android phones, but it looks like no one even benches that anymore... It's a weird transition.

You can and many sites did for the iPhone 5 review, comparing it to Java implementations of linpack on Android was where many of the claims about A6 being faster came from. At the time someone pointed this flaw out in a thread here and many of us posted Android scores that showed A6 trailing the Krait dual cores.

 

[Eug]

Yet the phones with the best battery life run Android not iOS.

Yes and no.

The Android phones with the best battery life have batteries that are huge in comparison to iPhone batteries.

For example, the iPhone 5 battery is 1440 W-hr. The battery in my RAZR HD is 2530 W-hr and battery life on the RAZR HD is usually decent... but I still get occasional days where the RAZR HD will drain itself to zero overnight likely because of some wayward app running in the background. Same goes for my Nexus 7. Usually the battery life is very good, but on occasion it is terrible, draining itself within 6 hours apparently doing nothing, likely for the same reason.

Yeah, maybe you'll call me a n00b for not running some sort of task killer every day before I leave the device to make sure there aren't hidden apps draining power, but the point is I shouldn't have to do this.

This battery discussion is similar to the discussion about the CPU and RAM. Android has compensated for the lack of proper mobile OS optimization by brute-forcing it - fast clocked quad-core CPUs, 2 GB RAM, and big batteries. That is not to say Apple is immune. They brute forced the battery when they went from the iPad 2 to the iPad 3, but the necessity of this is less on iOS than it is on Android.

 

[Red Storm]

Yes and no.

The Android phones with the best battery life have batteries that are huge in comparison to iPhone batteries.

For example, the iPhone battery is 1440 W-hr. The battery in my RAZR HD is 2530 W-hr and battery life on the RAZR HD is usually decent... but I still get occasional days where the RAZR HD will drain itself to zero overnight likely because of some wayward app running in the background. Same goes for my Nexus 7. Usually the battery life is very good, but on occasion it is terrible, draining itself within 6 hours apparently doing nothing, likely for the same reason.

Yeah, maybe you'll call me a n00b for not running some sort of task killer every day before I leave the device to make sure there aren't hidden apps draining power, but the point is I shouldn't have to do this.

Basically, it's the same thing as with the CPU, RAM. Android has compensated for the lack of proper mobile OS optimization by brute-forcing it - fast clocked quad-core CPUs, 2 GB RAM, and big batteries. That is not to say Apple is immune. They brute forced the battery when they went from the iPad 2 to the iPad 3, but the necessity of this is less on iOS than it is on Android.

It would be interesting to see how big the iPhone battery would be if it had a larger, higher resolution display that matched Android phones. Going from the iPad 2 to the 3 was definitely a huge battery change.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Yet the phones with the best battery life run Android not iOS.

This is a tricky statement. Yes raw battery life Android wins because larger screens seem to come with larger batteries also.

You can penalize Apple for only including a 1500 mAh battery, but at the same time most of our battery discussion is focused on which kind of phone drains more--and therefore efficiency.

Perhaps its more appropriate to normalize battery life in terms of runtime / mAh.

Now of course this is only part of the picture because I know some of you will tell me screen size matters. So perhaps apply an additional normalization factor for screen size/area? Therefore, by comparing a new normalized figure, you're able to compare the true battery efficiency of the OS and its internal components.

 

[Mopetar]

IOS is not preemptively multitasking. The code isn't there.

The OS itself is, but apps are restricted. So the support is there, but third party applications aren't allowed to take full advantage of it.

 

[Mopetar]

Now of course this is only part of the picture because I know some of you will tell me screen size matters. So perhaps apply an additional normalization factor for screen size/area? Therefore, by comparing a new normalized figure, you're able to compare the true battery efficiency of the OS and its internal components.

I tried doing this once, but there wasn't enough data and too many other variables in play to adequately determine how much the screen size factors in. You also have to consider type of screen, its average brightness (or at least adjust the test so they're all producing the same measured brightness), total pixel count, resolution, etc. You would also need to control for OS version and any software that's being used.

Needless to say, it's not something that's easy to do.

 

[boomhower]

Thoughts from a fanboy:

5C is a complete joke and a waste. It's overpriced for what it is, should have been $450 tops. And it's ugly. I don't know who was in charge of picking colors but personally I don't want my phone to look like a giant easter egg with a game of connect four on the back. Should have just kept the 5 if they are going to sell at that price.

5s: I love the fingerprint sensor and the possibilities down the road. Integrate it with keychain and you have the potential so essentially do away with passwords on your phone all together. I'm not a big photo guy but I'll certainly take any improvements in low light performance as it sucks now. I'm interested to see how the M7 processor affects battery life. It has a faster CPU, big whoop. I can't remember every thinking I needed my 5 to be faster, or 4S for that matter. Granted iOS 7 is likely to be the 4S start feeling it's age. Essentially a typical S upgrade, improvements but disappointing they spent a year and this is all they could do. Staying with 16GB base memory is just greedy at this point.

I'm holding onto my 5 and will be waiting to see what they can do with the iPhone 6. Can't wait for iOS 7 though.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Android has always felt bloated, laggy, and unpolished to me.

iOS is the pinnacle of a clean smartphone design. The reason they sell like gangbusters goes WAY beyond hardware specs. It's the overall fit, feel, and polish of the OS that provides a very consistent and smooth UI experience.

That being said, Apple cannot rely on their past excellence to fuel future growth for much longer. The new larger screen introduction should have happened this year, not next.

 

[Zaap]

personally I don't want my phone to look like a giant easter egg with a game of connect four on the back.

LOL! So true.