Iranian Revolution in 2022?

RnR_au

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2021
1,758
4,283
106
It seems to be continuing apace. Remains to be seen if the current leaders can clamp down and put a lid on it.


While Tehran has on occasion bowed to external pressure, throughout its 43-year history the Islamic republic’s sole response to internal crises has been to double down on repression. It is this brutality that has sustained the government. But there are growing fractures in the foundation, at a time when the country is braced for a potential leadership transition due to 83-year-old Khamenei’s uncertain health. While the Islamic republic’s security forces may appear in control for the moment, there are far more signs of regime frailty in Iran today than there was in Egypt and Tunisia in December 2010, weeks before their governments were overthrown.
Source

Let hope something good can come out of this. Iran could again be a beacon of Enlightenment in the Middle East.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,199
8,138
136
I feel like I've been reading variations on that article for 40 years now.

Seems as if every few years they tell us how 'the young' are chaffing under the restrictions of the socially-conservative state and that a big change is coming any day now. Most of the time though it seems to be largely based on considering urban and middle-class people. Not convinced reporters ever accurately assess what goes on in less-educated or more rural communities.

Wish I could find some of those earlier articles on-line, I am sure I remember reading some of them in the late 1980s or the '90s.

That said, I am sure that things can't stay the same forever. Iran seems very different from somewhere like Saudi Arabia - in that it has a rich and varied culture with a long history, that has a lot more to its identity than just religion and oil.

But how did things turn out in Egypt and Tunisia and the Arab Spring in general? Do things ever really get better or just change to different kinds of problems?
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,601
7,069
136
The current lineup of theocratic leaders who are trying their deadliest best to stay in power will manipulate every single thing they can to keep the lid from getting blown over their control over the nation. It seems that when you have leaders that refuse to bow to the will of the people, especially when they need to keep power in order to prevent their crimes against humanity from being exposed to the world, a violent solution to the problem is the usual outcome.

Sound familiar?
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,698
2,470
126
Due to their institutionalized system of corruption (military actually owns much of the production and economy), the chances of a split between the military and the theocratic government are slim at best. At most Iran will have their version of Tiananmen Square before a new, more severe round of clampdown and government intrusion and repression.
 
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RnR_au

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2021
1,758
4,283
106
I feel like I've been reading variations on that article for 40 years now.

When the current Supreme Leader dies (been in office since 1989) there could be a shift in attitudes at the top. Maybe.

Or could be wishful thinking.

This piece of advice is dangerous... and I like it;


Source

Never thought just how a simple and non-violent method could bring a centralised country to its knees.

Withdraw your money and your labour. Stay quietly in the streets. Don't damage buildings or cars.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
34,648
15,846
136
I feel like I've been reading variations on that article for 40 years now.

Seems as if every few years they tell us how 'the young' are chaffing under the restrictions of the socially-conservative state and that a big change is coming any day now. Most of the time though it seems to be largely based on considering urban and middle-class people. Not convinced reporters ever accurately assess what goes on in less-educated or more rural communities.

Wish I could find some of those earlier articles on-line, I am sure I remember reading some of them in the late 1980s or the '90s.

That said, I am sure that things can't stay the same forever. Iran seems very different from somewhere like Saudi Arabia - in that it has a rich and varied culture with a long history, that has a lot more to its identity than just religion and oil.

But how did things turn out in Egypt and Tunisia and the Arab Spring in general? Do things ever really get better or just change to different kinds of problems?
Agreed just like here “Next Election young people are going to turn out to vote” which never happens or “Young people in Iran are going to change everything” which never happens.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,709
8,228
136
Seems like something similar pops up every few years and nothing really comes of it except some protests and then after the secret police beat/kill a few protesters it goes away.

Call me when they drag the Ayatollah through the streets.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,199
8,138
136
When the current Supreme Leader dies (been in office since 1989) there could be a shift in attitudes at the top. Maybe.

Or could be wishful thinking.

Iran might change one day. It could eventually have its "Gorbachev". Just as with the USSR it will most likely be economic developments that bring that about.

But I'm not holding my breath. And also need to bear in mind what came after Gorbachev.

In the most general case, I'm just not entirely convinced at this point that there's really any such thing as 'progress'. Problems just keep changing form.

Edit - also, I can't see much sign of this alleged "progress" in Saudi Arabia, either.
 
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Lezunto

Golden Member
Oct 24, 2020
1,070
968
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Iran already had its Gorbachev.

Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi , the Shah of Iran, and his repressive regime brutally ruled most aspects of life in Iran. Over time, disenchantment and anger over his 41-year long dictatorship spawned massive protests against his government inside Iran and out.

After the Shah was diagnosed with cancer, President Jimmy Carter allowed the stricken dictator into the U.S. for treatment in 1979. Iran erupted in rage and we all know what happened.

Iranians stormed the U.S. Embassy and a year long nightmare ensued.

Here's the bottom line: Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, who had spent the last 15 years in exile, returned to Iran. He became the Holy leader of the rebels and religious mullahs took over the country.

For all intents and purposes, he was Gorbachev to Iran's rebels.

We just don't view him that way because we are conditioned to judge regimes and nations by the number of shopping centers, automobiles, industries and banks. And numbers of folks showing up to vote in contrived election contests.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,600
19,983
136
Iran was far more advanced decades ago. But we helped the British overthrow Mossadegh and install the loyal Shah regime, due to Mossadegh being not as friendly to Western oil interests, wanting more of the profit to stay in Iran, and the shah who was super brutal. That led to the Islamic revolution.
 

Atari2600

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2016
1,409
1,655
136
Let hope something good can come out of this. Iran could be a beacon of Enlightenment in the Middle East.

It already was. Before corporate greed had Western countries overthrow the existing democratic government and install the Shah.

You *badly* need to brush up on history of the area... And don't leave yourself dependant on the sh!te pedalled by most western news sources.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,000
7,420
136
Iran already had its Gorbachev.

Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi , the Shah of Iran, and his repressive regime brutally ruled most aspects of life in Iran. Over time, disenchantment and anger over his 41-year long dictatorship spawned massive protests against his government inside Iran and out.

After the Shah was diagnosed with cancer, President Jimmy Carter allowed the stricken dictator into the U.S. for treatment in 1979. Iran erupted in rage and we all know what happened.

Iranians stormed the U.S. Embassy and a year long nightmare ensued.

Here's the bottom line: Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, who had spent the last 15 years in exile, returned to Iran. He became the Holy leader of the rebels and religious mullahs took over the country.

For all intents and purposes, he was Gorbachev to Iran's rebels.

We just don't view him that way because we are conditioned to judge regimes and nations by the number of shopping centers, automobiles, industries and banks. And numbers of folks showing up to vote in contrived election contests.

- K, then I guess the Ayatollah has been Putin if we want to torture this analogy.

There is a spot between shitty extremes where a lot of people would like to live, million dollar question is how to promote that environment.

The JCPOA was a step in the right direction. It was not the only step that had to be taken, but it was a good start to normalizing relations, but I guess Trump didn't want Iranian Oil undercutting Russian oil into Europe so he had to put a stop to that and get like 100K people killed.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,513
7,564
136
This one feels a lot different. I don't recall seeing basiji this scared, running while being chased by hundreds of people. Iranian women seem pretty done with theocracy.

A mob tosses the police.
The military murders the mob.
Peace in the Middle East / Arab / Muslim world.

Always has been.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,607
37,307
136
A mob tosses the police.
The military murders the mob.
Peace in the Middle East / Arab / Muslim world.

Always has been.

Sounds like you've already forgotten the Arab Spring.

I'm aware of the traditional formula, I'm saying I'm not sure it applies this time. Their Supreme Leader is also dying remember. Basiji are still getting the shit kicked out of them, and the lack of internet doesn't seem to be doing much for the government. Like I said, feels different this time. I see Anonymous is getting involved.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,513
7,564
136
I hope the people of Iran break free of their theocratic regime and things can progress positively for them.

I imagine a stable central government is the best situation most of those nations can hope to achieve.
It is when they lose that, where !@#$ really hits the fan and people start dying in droves.

Do we have any modern examples of a Muslim nation having a positive outcome following the overthrow of their government?
 

Drach

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2022
1,085
1,727
106
I imagine a stable central government is the best situation most of those nations can hope to achieve.
It is when they lose that, where !@#$ really hits the fan and people start dying in droves.

Do we have any modern examples of a Muslim nation having a positive outcome following the overthrow of their government?
Indonesia?
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,869
18,148
146
I imagine a stable central government is the best situation most of those nations can hope to achieve.
It is when they lose that, where !@#$ really hits the fan and people start dying in droves.

As Americans like to say, freedom isn't free. That includes freedom from religious nutters.

Do we have any modern examples of a Muslim nation having a positive outcome following the overthrow of their government?

No idea, won't stop me from hoping for the best.
 
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Lezunto

Golden Member
Oct 24, 2020
1,070
968
106
I imagine a stable central government is the best situation most of those nations can hope to achieve.
It is when they lose that, where !@#$ really hits the fan and people start dying in droves.

Do we have any modern examples of a Muslim nation having a positive outcome following the overthrow of their government?

Dubya will claim Iraq was one and Obama might say Libya was.
 
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