Discussion IRS Underfunded? Who’s surprised?

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Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
1,635
3,167
136
"Beginning this week, the IRS will start sending out noncompliance letters to more than 25,000 people who earn more than $1 million per year and 100,000 people with incomes between $400,000 and $1 million who failed to pay their taxes between 2017 and 2021."

WTF? As a self-employed person, I get a letter every year from HMRC (UK name for IRS) to remind me not to forget to file my tax return by next January (I have never forgotten and have been self-employed for over 20 years). My wife was self-employed for a short stint and failed to file her tax return and she must have received at least a letter per month until she sorted it.

I can kind-of potentially understand gov tax people not getting particularly hands-on with non-filers but I would have thought the increasingly stern letters would be almost completely automated.
As a side note, exactly 1 of those 125,000 have been criminally charged ~ Hunter. (And he has actually fully paid including late penalties, unlike the other 124,999.) But it is of course not a politically motivated witch-hunt.
 

iRONic

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2006
7,071
2,368
136
Ohman… I used to operate two companies, a Sub S corp and an LLC. Sending in my fed quarterlys one year I mistakenly put the LLC paperwork in the Sub S envelope and Sub S docs in the LLC envelope.

That caused an 18 month back-and-forth letter, fine, and interest payment with the IRS and state DRS! Stupid mistake freaked me out. I hired a CPA after that.

Scumbags that crime on purpose need to pay up.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,831
9,066
136
How is non-payment of taxes (without even filing an extension) not grounds for immediate garnishment of...oh wait, the filthy rich don't collect peasant "wages"--their wealth is protected behind stock options, foreign accounts and other securities that can't be garnished.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,476
4,570
136

With the additional funding from the IRA, the IRS is now going after wealthy people who failed to file returns and executives who use company planes for personal travel while the company gets a write-off.

These are the people Republicans wanted to protect when they didn't want the IRS to have more funding. Republicans love to defund the [tax] police.


Good I hope they drain them for every penny owed plus penalties. Oh and jail time if allowed / applicable by law.
 
Reactions: Zorba and Drach

GettyRoad

Golden Member
Mar 5, 2016
1,171
349
136
Most Americans DONT like taxes, not only white guys

A lot of young people don't like it either.

IRS needs to be revamped.
 
Reactions: herm0016

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,301
15,083
136
Most Americans DONT like taxes, not only white guys

A lot of young people don't like it either.

IRS needs to be revamped.

You are right, it should be revamped and taxes at the end of the year should automatically be calculated and the only thing people should have to do is acknowledge them and pay their bill or select how they want a refund or specify if they want to add/change things.
 

Amol S.

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2015
2,397
709
136
Most Americans DONT like taxes, not only white guys

A lot of young people don't like it either.

IRS needs to be revamped.
MAB? "Make America Broke"?
Where do you think the governement will get the money to run itself?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,557
49,010
136
Most Americans DONT like taxes, not only white guys

A lot of young people don't like it either.

IRS needs to be revamped.
What Americans do like is tax laws being enforced.

If you don’t like the tax laws then change them.

Maybe Matlock can be employed.
 
Reactions: Amol S.

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
16,271
3,882
75
"Beginning this week, the IRS will start sending out noncompliance letters to more than 25,000 people who earn more than $1 million per year and 100,000 people with incomes between $400,000 and $1 million who failed to pay their taxes between 2017 and 2021."

WTF? As a self-employed person, I get a letter every year from HMRC (UK name for IRS) to remind me not to forget to file my tax return by next January (I have never forgotten and have been self-employed for over 20 years). My wife was self-employed for a short stint and failed to file her tax return and she must have received at least a letter per month until she sorted it.

I can kind-of potentially understand gov tax people not getting particularly hands-on with non-filers but I would have thought the increasingly stern letters would be almost completely automated.
But letters aren't automated. Unless they're emails, but only scammers send IRS emails. Letters are delivered by letter carriers, who have to get paid. And that's one reason why the IRS needs more funding.
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
23,754
4,944
146
I'm sure the developer thinks the racism of this bot is a feature.

The rooskies have been at it for awhile. This Russia bot for some reason is consumed by race. It just won't stop. It needs to stay in his MAGA thread it created and quit infecting the rest of the P&N threads.


 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
5,796
2,049
136
The US needs to do end of year taxes like some other countries. For 90% of the population, just send them a letter with what the IRS believes the result to be, and ask if the person agrees or not.

Let's be honest, the overwhelming majority of the population owns no homes and only has a simple 1040 to file. They have no additional income from investments. The most they may have is a second job. The IRS already knows 100% of what these people owe.

What each person owes is based on what employer's report to the IRS, and what financial institutes such as banks report to the IRS. If the employee underpaid taxes, or overpaid taxes, it should be simple for the IRS to have software that can calculate all of that. Just send the employee a letter, telling them if they owe taxes or not, or if they are due a refund. And if the employee agrees, then take action accordingly, whether it is the employee writes a check, or if the IRS issues a refund. Done. Simple. Don't need to pay an accountant for any of that.

For those that disagree with the assessed taxes, they may file what they believe is the correct tax return, with corroborating documentation. At that point, whether they need an accountant or not is up to them. That's their problem. This would drastically reduce the manpower needed by the IRS to manage year-end tax returns because the majority of tax filers would already be filed and only awaiting confirmation from the individuals. This would make it vastly easier for the IRS to concentrate on those who disagree with the automated calculations and those who dodge taxes.
 
Dec 10, 2005
24,295
7,155
136
The US needs to do end of year taxes like some other countries. For 90% of the population, just send them a letter with what the IRS believes the result to be, and ask if the person agrees or not.

Let's be honest, the overwhelming majority of the population owns no homes and only has a simple 1040 to file. They have no additional income from investments. The most they may have is a second job. The IRS already knows 100% of what these people owe.

What each person owes is based on what employer's report to the IRS, and what financial institutes such as banks report to the IRS. If the employee underpaid taxes, or overpaid taxes, it should be simple for the IRS to have software that can calculate all of that. Just send the employee a letter, telling them if they owe taxes or not, or if they are due a refund. And if the employee agrees, then take action accordingly, whether it is the employee writes a check, or if the IRS issues a refund. Done. Simple. Don't need to pay an accountant for any of that.

For those that disagree with the assessed taxes, they may file what they believe is the correct tax return, with corroborating documentation. At that point, whether they need an accountant or not is up to them. That's their problem. This would drastically reduce the manpower needed by the IRS to manage year-end tax returns because the majority of tax filers would already be filed and only awaiting confirmation from the individuals. This would make it vastly easier for the IRS to concentrate on those who disagree with the automated calculations and those who dodge taxes.
The majority of households in the US do own a home - it's something like 60%+.

But a good chunk of people have very simple taxes that they could just do with simple, free software, thus, doing their filing should also just be no big deal. Of course, there are a few deductions that people with simple returns could still take that the IRS wouldn't know about, which is partly why you have to file.

It could be beneficial to such a "confirm your taxes" type scenario, but that would require money to upgrade the IRS's technical systems - something that Congress has been relatively reluctant to do. That also seems like a poor return on investment if you have limited money to try and coax/enforce compliance with tax laws.
 

Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
1,635
3,167
136
The US needs to do end of year taxes like some other countries. For 90% of the population, just send them a letter with what the IRS believes the result to be, and ask if the person agrees or not.

Let's be honest, the overwhelming majority of the population owns no homes and only has a simple 1040 to file. They have no additional income from investments. The most they may have is a second job. The IRS already knows 100% of what these people owe.

What each person owes is based on what employer's report to the IRS, and what financial institutes such as banks report to the IRS. If the employee underpaid taxes, or overpaid taxes, it should be simple for the IRS to have software that can calculate all of that. Just send the employee a letter, telling them if they owe taxes or not, or if they are due a refund. And if the employee agrees, then take action accordingly, whether it is the employee writes a check, or if the IRS issues a refund. Done. Simple. Don't need to pay an accountant for any of that.

For those that disagree with the assessed taxes, they may file what they believe is the correct tax return, with corroborating documentation. At that point, whether they need an accountant or not is up to them. That's their problem. This would drastically reduce the manpower needed by the IRS to manage year-end tax returns because the majority of tax filers would already be filed and only awaiting confirmation from the individuals. This would make it vastly easier for the IRS to concentrate on those who disagree with the automated calculations and those who dodge taxes.
I'd note that the IRS is also directly informed about all stock market interest, dividends, and actual stock capital gains directly from all U.S. brokerages now - so in addition, the vast majority of those that have investments are also fully covered in what the IRS could (theoretically) automate.

Plus with the larger standard individual exemption, the vast majority of homeowners are still better off using that standard deduction vs. itemizing. Quick google search claims estimated 90% of tax filers now use the standard deduction.

I'd guess that almost all of that 90% could be accurately automated with data the IRS already collects. And much of the remaining 10% would actually be more accurate using the IRS data, rather than individual claimed returns... and thus as you note we should put the onus on the individual to substantiate with appropriate documentation.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,801
7,941
136
Yet this year is the fastest I have received a refund. e-filed on 2/23 and refund was deposited on 2/29.

Most years it 3 - 4 weeks
 
Reactions: uclaLabrat

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,363
27,554
136
Yet this year is the fastest I have received a refund. e-filed on 2/23 and refund was deposited on 2/29.

Most years it 3 - 4 weeks
The IRS’ review bot seems much more sophisticated than in past years, speeding up the process.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,619
10,490
136
Yet this year is the fastest I have received a refund. e-filed on 2/23 and refund was deposited on 2/29.

Most years it 3 - 4 weeks
Paid no taxes last 3 years due to only using SS money. Annuities kick in starting now. Back to paying taxes.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,801
7,941
136
Paid no taxes last 3 years due to only using SS money. Annuities kick in starting now. Back to paying taxes.
Damn free loader...

Pensions, annuities, and recently MRD from 401k have kept me paying every year.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,619
10,490
136
Use a partial withdrawl instead of the full amount.. lot easier on the taxes!
I take the default 10% for Fed. Now that there's real interest rates, it does matter if I use the government for a piggy bank. Also, that's just one of the investments, by the way. Starting to create my traveling wish list for when MRD kicks in.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,481
24,649
136
taxes should be able to be filed on a post card. our current system is a total give away to the tax prep industry.
This is inaccurate, taxes are complicated because of the vast number of deductions and rules available not because of the tax prep industry but because of special interest group lobbying. The entire tax code is a shit show. Focusing on "do my taxes on a post card" is completely missing the forest for the trees.
 

GettyRoad

Golden Member
Mar 5, 2016
1,171
349
136
This is inaccurate, taxes are complicated because of the vast number of deductions and rules available not because of the tax prep industry but because of special interest group lobbying. The entire tax code is a shit show. Focusing on "do my taxes on a post card" is completely missing the forest for the trees.
It should be done on a postcard, Rick Perry was right about that in 2011, one of his only things he was right about
 
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