Is the confederate flag racist?

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: FinalFantasy

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven

Originally posted by: FinalFantasy

Originally posted by: Preyhunter
I could give two sh!ts if my Confederate flag (if I had one) offends someone. Hell, there's things that others do, say, and own that offend me, but I don't see them bending over backwards in attempts to not offend me and I don't expect them to. That's just something I'll deal with on my own. In the same vein, I don't want people expecting me to care about their sensitivities and feelings. I owe them nothing and I am beneath no one. If someone is going to be offended by an inanimate object that no longer symbolizes anything, then it sounds like that person's personal problem that he needs to work out with himself as far as I'm concerned. Screw political correctness and the ass it rode in on.

Yea, of course there things that people in this world say/do/smell like/look like/etc that other people find offensive and they are just going to have to learn how to "deal with it", but we are talking about history here man. The Confederate flag was part of one the most racist movements/wars in American history, and if you haven't heard of the "Civil War" and you don't know what the Confederate flag represented during that time, then I suggest you go read a book and educate your self.

Ignorance is bliss.

If you think the Civil War was first and foremost about slavery and racism, then I suggest that you go read a book and educate yourself.

"The Confederate flag was part of one the most racist movements/wars in American history..."

You must have read my post wrong and you are assuming; go back, read it again, revise your post.

Thank you.

If you think the civil war was about racism and slavery, please read a book and educate yourself.

It really depends on the book. While revisionist historians like to think that the civil war was based purely on states rights, to say that slavery did not contribute to the civil war is very ignorant.

There are many factors which contributed to the civil war, one of which was slavery.

It was a footnote in the scheme of things.

 

[azazyel]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: eigen

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: eigen
I think it is racist.I live in Ms.I think it is racist, you come live in a state where that trash is on your state flag.

And white sheets are available in most stores that sell linen as well. Why don't we ban white linen and scissors while we are at it?

What? Because white linen and sheets arent racist until you put time and effort into turning them into racist implements.
Why do we have that sh!t on my state flag? Answer that. I will never tip my hat or pledge and oath to any flag with that on it.

Yet in your sig you quote a white man that knocked up a 14 y/o slave girl...

How is that relevant to a flag's inherent hateful meaning?

a piece of cloth is less racist than interracial pedophilia? imho that is

in that day 14 was over the hill

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: FinalFantasy

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven

Originally posted by: FinalFantasy

Originally posted by: Preyhunter
I could give two sh!ts if my Confederate flag (if I had one) offends someone. Hell, there's things that others do, say, and own that offend me, but I don't see them bending over backwards in attempts to not offend me and I don't expect them to. That's just something I'll deal with on my own. In the same vein, I don't want people expecting me to care about their sensitivities and feelings. I owe them nothing and I am beneath no one. If someone is going to be offended by an inanimate object that no longer symbolizes anything, then it sounds like that person's personal problem that he needs to work out with himself as far as I'm concerned. Screw political correctness and the ass it rode in on.

Yea, of course there things that people in this world say/do/smell like/look like/etc that other people find offensive and they are just going to have to learn how to "deal with it", but we are talking about history here man. The Confederate flag was part of one the most racist movements/wars in American history, and if you haven't heard of the "Civil War" and you don't know what the Confederate flag represented during that time, then I suggest you go read a book and educate your self.

Ignorance is bliss.

If you think the Civil War was first and foremost about slavery and racism, then I suggest that you go read a book and educate yourself.

"The Confederate flag was part of one the most racist movements/wars in American history..."

You must have read my post wrong and you are assuming; go back, read it again, revise your post.

Thank you.

If you think the civil war was about racism and slavery, please read a book and educate yourself.

It really depends on the book. While revisionist historians like to think that the civil war was based purely on states rights, to say that slavery did not contribute to the civil war is very ignorant.

There are many factors which contributed to the civil war, one of which was slavery.

It was a footnote in the scheme of things.

I wouldn't go that far. It was an important issue, one that is not the sole cause, but still a major contributor.

 

[amoeba]

regardless of whether the confederate flag is tied to racism or not, as a symbol of rebellion against the United States, it should not be used as a government icon.

 

[n0cmonkey]

EDIT: I don't think I care anymore.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: azazyel



in that day 14 was over the hill

How come Martha was 23 when they got hitched then?

 

[amoeba]

how pray tell did the North do their best to end the government setup by the forefathers of the US?

If you believe that the forefathers of the US were all states rights advocates, you are the one who should go back and read your history books.

In fact Jefferson was one of the few democratic republicans who believed in states rights. Most of the founding fathers were federalists.

Please, get some knowledge before spewing forth your biased history.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: amoeba
how pray tell did the North do their best to end the government setup by the forefathers of the US?

If you believe that the forefathers of the US were all states rights advocates, you are the one who should go back and read your history books.

In fact Jefferson was one of the few democratic republicans who believed in states rights. Most of the founding fathers were federalists.

Please, get some knowledge before spewing forth your biased history.

I editted because I re-read what I wrote and wondered WTF I was thinking.

 

[amoeba]

eh its cool, been a long time since I studied this subject too.


For those that still believe that certain states should keep around the confederate flag, please retort to this post I made above :



The connection of the confederate flag to racism can be only viewed in the context which it is displayed.

That said, it is offensive enough to some people that prohibiting its use within government symbols would not be going overboard.

Purely for the fact that its a symbol of rebellion, it should not be used as a state flag, etc....

Imagine if certain states that were predominately british loyalists during the american revolution ended up creating state flags after the war which included exact replicas of the british flag.

 

[FinalFantasy]

Originally posted by: Preyhunter

Originally posted by: FinalFantasy

Originally posted by: Preyhunter
I could give two sh!ts if my Confederate flag (if I had one) offends someone. Hell, there's things that others do, say, and own that offend me, but I don't see them bending over backwards in attempts to not offend me and I don't expect them to. That's just something I'll deal with on my own. In the same vein, I don't want people expecting me to care about their sensitivities and feelings. I owe them nothing and I am beneath no one. If someone is going to be offended by an inanimate object that no longer symbolizes anything, then it sounds like that person's personal problem that he needs to work out with himself as far as I'm concerned. Screw political correctness and the ass it rode in on.

Yea, of course there things that people in this world say/do/smell like/look like/etc that other people find offensive and they are just going to have to learn how to "deal with it", but we are talking about history here man. The Confederate flag was part of one the most racist movements/wars in American history, and if you haven't heard of the "Civil War" and you don't know what the Confederate flag represented during that time, then I suggest you go read a book and educate your self.

Ignorance is bliss.

Keep talking. If ignorance is bliss, you'd be one to know. The key word you used, yet fail to understand, is
history. We are best served by history when we know the facts, remember lessons learned, and keep emotions in check. If you want to dwell on history and remain pissed off and not move forward and be a man, that's your prerogative and your problem. The flag no longer has real meaning because the Confederacy no longer exists. Do I like the flag? Yes. Why? I don't know, maybe because I was born in Atlanta and have always lived in the south. I happen to believe that people from the south are more congenial and hospitable than their northern counterparts, especially when you keep your nose out of their business. All of my family is from the south and that's where my heritage comes from. The south also has the best looking women.

Did I say anywhere in there that I love to hate blacks? No. Did I say that I think we need to reinstitute the establishment of slavery? No. Are your perceptions and stereotypes of white people in the south that like this particular flag faulty and skewed? Yes.

Why do people assume so much before gathering facts? Before you answer for me...how about you ask me the question first, then I can "try" to answer it to the best of my ability. My family is from the south from too and that's where my roots are from. I know not all "white people" from the south are gun carryin' hicks that hate blacks, but the reality is that this flag, the Confederate flag, was used for racist and malicious purposes many many many times in the past and it is VERY insensitive for other people to have that flag waving anywhere in plain view for others to see. A hanging flag always shows support for what that flag represents and what that person represents, so if today the Confederate flag stands for nothing, then those who choose to hang it do not stand for anything either. Sure there is A LOT of history that is behind the Confederate flag, but then tell me this, why are people hang the Confederate flag still today if it stands for "nothing"...is it because as you stated they "don't konw" or do they like the "pretty colors"? ...I didn't know southern men were such pansies if so.

 

[FinalFantasy]

Originally posted by: amoeba
regardless of whether the confederate flag is tied to racism or not, as a symbol of rebellion against the United States, it should not be used as a government icon.

Agreed

Originally posted by: amoeba
eh its cool, been a long time since I studied this subject too.


For those that still believe that certain states should keep around the confederate flag, please retort to this post I made above :



The connection of the confederate flag to racism can be only viewed in the context which it is displayed.

That said, it is offensive enough to some people that prohibiting its use within government symbols would not be going overboard.

Purely for the fact that its a symbol of rebellion, it should not be used as a state flag, etc....

Imagine if certain states that were predominately british loyalists during the american revolution ended up creating state flags after the war which included exact replicas of the british flag.

Thank you both for making the point I was about to just make. Saved me some time. ;D

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: amoeba
eh its cool, been a long time since I studied this subject too.


For those that still believe that certain states should keep around the confederate flag, please retort to this post I made above :



The connection of the confederate flag to racism can be only viewed in the context which it is displayed.

That said, it is offensive enough to some people that prohibiting its use within government symbols would not be going overboard.

Purely for the fact that its a symbol of rebellion, it should not be used as a state flag, etc....

Imagine if certain states that were predominately british loyalists during the american revolution ended up creating state flags after the war which included exact replicas of the british flag.

This country was founded on rebellion. In fact, rebellion is the duty of every patriot against an oppressive government (and the south saw the north as oppressive, whether they were right or not).

People should be offended. Constantly.

 

[Maetryx]

Lincoln may have freed the slaves, but he was still a separatist. He wanted to send them all back to Africa. The Civil War was not about turning slaves into U.S. citizens. The North opposed this because if slaves counted as full citizens then the South would get more members in Congress.

 

[amoeba]

just for the record, I'm fine with people hanging a confederate flag out of their home/truck/whatever.

I support and defend your right to do it.

I just don't feel it should be on any government flags/crests/symbols.

 

[amoeba]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: amoeba
eh its cool, been a long time since I studied this subject too.


For those that still believe that certain states should keep around the confederate flag, please retort to this post I made above :



The connection of the confederate flag to racism can be only viewed in the context which it is displayed.

That said, it is offensive enough to some people that prohibiting its use within government symbols would not be going overboard.

Purely for the fact that its a symbol of rebellion, it should not be used as a state flag, etc....

Imagine if certain states that were predominately british loyalists during the american revolution ended up creating state flags after the war which included exact replicas of the british flag.

This country was founded on rebellion. In fact, rebellion is the duty of every patriot against an oppressive government (and the south saw the north as oppressive, whether they were right or not).

People should be offended. Constantly.

So if lets say texas becomes predominately hispanic, it would be ok to change the Texas state flag to a replica of the Mexican flag?

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Maetryx
Lincoln may have freed the slaves, but he was still a separatist. He wanted to send them all back to Africa. The Civil War was not about turning slaves into U.S. citizens. The North opposed this because if slaves counted as full citizens then the South would get more members in Congress.

Lincoln quickly abandoned the idea of returning them to Africa when he realized it was a hugely impractical idea.

 

[OutHouse]

no its not racist. but it is the flag of a nation that separated from the country and tried to over throw the federal government. for that reason alone the flag should not be flown by any state as part of their state flag.

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: amoeba
eh its cool, been a long time since I studied this subject too.


For those that still believe that certain states should keep around the confederate flag, please retort to this post I made above :



The connection of the confederate flag to racism can be only viewed in the context which it is displayed.

That said, it is offensive enough to some people that prohibiting its use within government symbols would not be going overboard.

Purely for the fact that its a symbol of rebellion, it should not be used as a state flag, etc....

Imagine if certain states that were predominately british loyalists during the american revolution ended up creating state flags after the war which included exact replicas of the british flag.

Please see my post on old glory on pg.3

Rebellion is a constitutionaly protected act., see 2nd admendment, which in fact, was designed to prevent an oppressive government.

To disgard a piece of history is to re-write it.

I also wasn't a slave owner, nor do I care to be. To assume it's racist, or the person flying it is racist is an assumption. I don't care to make changes because some people assume they should be offended. I also wasn't a slave owner, nor do I care to be.

 

[Balt]

I'm sure this has been said numerous times already, but:

The flag itself is not racist. Most of the assholes who have one on their house, truck, clothes, whatever are, however..

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: amoeba
just for the record, I'm fine with people hanging a confederate flag out of their home/truck/whatever.

I support and defend your right to do it.

I just don't feel it should be on any government flags/crests/symbols.

I can agree with that, only the federal and state flags should be hoisted at a government buildings.

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: amoeba
eh its cool, been a long time since I studied this subject too.


For those that still believe that certain states should keep around the confederate flag, please retort to this post I made above :



The connection of the confederate flag to racism can be only viewed in the context which it is displayed.

That said, it is offensive enough to some people that prohibiting its use within government symbols would not be going overboard.

Purely for the fact that its a symbol of rebellion, it should not be used as a state flag, etc....

Imagine if certain states that were predominately british loyalists during the american revolution ended up creating state flags after the war which included exact replicas of the british flag.

This country was founded on rebellion. In fact, rebellion is the duty of every patriot against an oppressive government (and the south saw the north as oppressive, whether they were right or not).

People should be offended. Constantly.

So if lets say texas becomes predominately hispanic, it would be ok to change the Texas state flag to a replica of the Mexican flag?

Have you ever heard of the 6 flags of Texas? It ain't just an amusement park...

"Texas Under Mexico. 1821-1836

For more than a decade after Mexico became independent, hardy pioneers from the Hispanic south and the Anglo north flowed into Texas. It was a frontier region for both; Anglo Texans became Mexican citizens. But divergent social and political attitudes began to alienate the two cultures. The final straw: Mexican General Santa Anna scrapped the Mexican federal constitution and declared himself dictator. Texans revolted and won their independence April 21, 1836, on the battleground of San Jacinto near Houston. Mexico's intricate flag pictures an eagle, a snake (an image from pre-Columbian mythology) and cactus on bars of brilliant green, white"

WTF are you talking about? Mexico WAS a flag of Texas.

 

[amoeba]

2nd admendment says quote

" A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. "

says nothing about rebellion being a constitutionally protected act.

The whole concept of rebellion being constitutionally protected is a paradox as the constitution is a set of laws and rebellion means the breaking of those laws.

 

[amoeba]

Originally posted by: Phoenix86

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: amoeba
eh its cool, been a long time since I studied this subject too.


For those that still believe that certain states should keep around the confederate flag, please retort to this post I made above :



The connection of the confederate flag to racism can be only viewed in the context which it is displayed.

That said, it is offensive enough to some people that prohibiting its use within government symbols would not be going overboard.

Purely for the fact that its a symbol of rebellion, it should not be used as a state flag, etc....

Imagine if certain states that were predominately british loyalists during the american revolution ended up creating state flags after the war which included exact replicas of the british flag.

This country was founded on rebellion. In fact, rebellion is the duty of every patriot against an oppressive government (and the south saw the north as oppressive, whether they were right or not).

People should be offended. Constantly.

So if lets say texas becomes predominately hispanic, it would be ok to change the Texas state flag to a replica of the Mexican flag?

Have you ever heard of the 6 flags of Texas? It ain't just an amusement park...

"Texas Under Mexico. 1821-1836

For more than a decade after Mexico became independent, hardy pioneers from the Hispanic south and the Anglo north flowed into Texas. It was a frontier region for both; Anglo Texans became Mexican citizens. But divergent social and political attitudes began to alienate the two cultures. The final straw: Mexican General Santa Anna scrapped the Mexican federal constitution and declared himself dictator. Texans revolted and won their independence April 21, 1836, on the battleground of San Jacinto near Houston. Mexico's intricate flag pictures an eagle, a snake (an image from pre-Columbian mythology) and cactus on bars of brilliant green, white"

WTF are you talking about? Mexico WAS a flag of Texas.

Yes, important point. WAS. was a flag of Texas when Santa Anna was in charge and before he lost.

just like how the confederate flag WAS the flag of the south before the south lost. Except the confederate flag still is around as some state's state flag.

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: dbzwukan

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: SuperTool
No more than the Nazi flag is antisemitic.

The swastika is actually an Indian symbol, that was bastardized by the Nazi party

Actually, I believe it is reversed. to the right, instead of left.

correct.

regarding the original topic, i'd say yeah, it's racist. it stands for one thing: support of slavery. if you're proud of your state, that's great, fly your state flag. the confederate flag only shows your pride for your bigotry.

let me clarify: you people can bullsh!t all you want about pride for your region or rebellion or whatever. the fact remains that flags exist because they are symbols. and the message the flag sends out to the REST of the world is that you're a racist redneck piece of sh!t. so if that's what you want to be proud of, go right ahead, it's a free country (thanks to the north). but if your intention is anything else, you need to pick a different symbol. cause it's the equivilent of claiming red lights mean "go" and then bitching and moaning when everyone else stops.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Cogman
If I remember Correctly, the Cival war was not about the abolishment of slavery. The abolishment of slavery was the Proverbial straw that broke the camels back.

Wow, someone with independent thought that was not brainwashed by liberal history books and you are not a Southerner....:Q

I AM a southerner, and if I remember correctly, Lincoln gave the south an altimatum of 13 days to move the slaves out of the south. I believe in the meantime, he blockaded southern ports with Union vessels to keep Soviet ships from reinforcing the south. Then something happens with Mexico, and the South launched an attack on the North. During the ensuing battle, there was serious damage done to the historic Mason-Dixon jail, and the White House was burned down.

:thumbsup:

you don't remember correctly. your grasp of history is miniscule at best. The fact that you said Soviet during a civil war discussion is probably the funniest thing I've read today.

.... I'm seriously shocked that your sarcasm meter could be that fvcked up. Did you accidentally tape a confederate flag over the display? :Q