Is the Firefox honeymoon over

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mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
30,699
1
0
Originally posted by: spyordie007
When Firefox gets a true update/patching system, I expect that turn-around time to improve.
I thought it did have one? It automatically detects that there are updates and notifies the user to download/install for both the browser as well as plug-ins.
And if they're running it as Admins then the updates actually succeed.
A good argument that running your browser under a restricted account is every-bit as important as which browser you pick.
Hear, hear :thumbsup:

If FireFox wants to really hit the big time, Mozilla should be putting out .MSI installers of it, preferably with a customization kit a la IEAK6 for IE6. Then it would be a simple redeploy via Group Policy, instead of manual drudgework, and configuration would be set up to meet the company's desired defaults.
 

kamper

Diamond Member
Mar 18, 2003
5,513
0
0
Originally posted by: mechBgon
If FireFox wants to really hit the big time, Mozilla should be putting out .MSI installers of it, preferably with a customization kit a la IEAK6 for IE6. Then it would be a simple redeploy via Group Policy, instead of manual drudgework, and configuration would be set up to meet the company's desired defaults.
I'm sure they'd be happy if someone volunteered to do that job
 

SleepWalkerX

Platinum Member
Jun 29, 2004
2,649
0
0
Originally posted by: JonnyBlaze
can someone explain to me what someone can do if im running ie or ff? iv ran both and never had any problems. is it all just a matter of what sites you visit?

Check out Secunia.com. They show various vulnerabilities with different browsers, solutions, and even demonstrations of the vulnerability.

For instance, check out this one with internet explorer. Read how it works and then try the test. You can try it other browsers too.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
Do extensions get integrated into successive versions of Firefox?
Adblock, IEView, Copy Image, Disable Targets for Downloads, Download Manager Tweak, Open Download, Show Image, Sort Bookmarks, Sort Extensions, and probably some others.

I view those as being very important extensions, and a number of them add useful features already found in IE.
I've got a lot of extensions - 30 of them. If I have to reinstall Firefox, or put it on someone else's PC, that's a lot of extra things to install, especially with that 2-second countdown thing before letting you click OK. Having those integrated would save loads of time.
 

SleepWalkerX

Platinum Member
Jun 29, 2004
2,649
0
0
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Do extensions get integrated into successive versions of Firefox?
Adblock, IEView, Copy Image, Disable Targets for Downloads, Download Manager Tweak, Open Download, Show Image, Sort Bookmarks, Sort Extensions, and probably some others.

I view those as being very important extensions, and a number of them add useful features already found in IE.
I've got a lot of extensions - 30 of them. If I have to reinstall Firefox, or put it on someone else's PC, that's a lot of extra things to install, especially with that 2-second countdown thing before letting you click OK. Having those integrated would save loads of time.

When I installed the 1.5 beta 1 of firefox for the first time it had some kind of wizard that handled the old extensions from my previous version. It determined if they were compatible and if they weren't, checked for an update. Out of my extensions and themes, the only one that didn't come over was Qute 3.

So you can try the new firefox and if the extensions aren't supported you can revert to 1.0.6 or whatever, your extensions shouldn't be touched. Just in case, you can backup your C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Application Data\Mozilla\Firefox directory. That's where they're stored.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
I don't mean that they'll be supported - I want to know if they'll actually be integrated, and become part of Firefox's basic feature set.
 

SleepWalkerX

Platinum Member
Jun 29, 2004
2,649
0
0
Originally posted by: Jeff7
I don't mean that they'll be supported - I want to know if they'll actually be integrated, and become part of Firefox's basic feature set.

Well heck no. There are a ton of extensions and including some will only bloat the program more with things that some people don't want or don't need.
 

kamper

Diamond Member
Mar 18, 2003
5,513
0
0
Yikes, let's hope that never happens! The best thing about firefox is that it doesn't come with a billion and one things built in, but you can still get it to do whatever you want. I also don't think there's any point in burdening the devs with extra features to test for each release. That's what the extension community is for.
 

doornail

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
333
0
0
George Ou is a troll that love Microsoft. It isn't even a real article, it's a "blog". Look how he jumps into the comments and argues every tiny detail like your typical forum dork.

Check out this gem where he argues that Linux is less secure than Windows based on stats he got from some shady hackers webring.

This is all about planting the concept that people aren't switching to Firefox in order to stop people from switching to firefox. The Mozilla folks are way more open about exploits and respond much faster.

I will never go back to IE. Firefox + Adbloc = thing of beauty.


 

MrChad

Lifer
Aug 22, 2001
13,507
3
81
Originally posted by: doornail
George Ou is a troll that love Microsoft. It isn't even a real article, it's a "blog". Look how he jumps into the comments and argues every tiny detail like your typical forum dork.

Check out this gem where he argues that Linux is less secure than Windows based on stats he got from some shady hackers webring.

This is all about planting the concept that people aren't switching to Firefox in order to stop people from switching to firefox. The Mozilla folks are way more open about exploits and respond much faster.

I will never go back to IE. Firefox + Adbloc = thing of beauty.

From that article:

The zone-h report doesn't actually prove which OS is more secure, only that the OS is mostly irrelevant and the Windows server security jokes are more myth than fact.

The first part of this statement is 100 percent true. You can set up a Linux/Apache web server improperly and it will be completely open to outside attacks and exploits. By the same token, you can lock down a virtually impenetrable Windows/IIS box. The underlying OS is not nearly as important as how it's setup and administered.
 

AnonymouseUser

Diamond Member
May 14, 2003
9,943
107
106
Originally posted by: SleepWalkerX
Originally posted by: Jeff7
I don't mean that they'll be supported - I want to know if they'll actually be integrated, and become part of Firefox's basic feature set.

Well heck no. There are a ton of extensions and including some will only bloat the program more with things that some people don't want or don't need.

Too true. FF is already more bloated than Opera, and adding all the extensions which makes it behave like Opera = more bloat.

FF for Windows = 4.7MB
Opera for Windows = 3.7MB

FF for Linux = 8.2MB
Opera for Linux = 4.1MB

EDIT >>
Since Opera includes an e-mail client, don't forget to add Thunderbird to complement FF.
TB for Windows = 5.8MB
TB for Linux = 9.9MB
 

kamper

Diamond Member
Mar 18, 2003
5,513
0
0
Download size is not a very good judge of bloat (unless downloading those extra few mbs really bothers you). Lines of code is a better measure, although flawed for the same reason. I'd say unnecessary and unwanted features, like mail and bittorrent clients, are a better measure.
 

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
30,699
1
0

nweaver

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2001
6,813
1
0
Originally posted by: MrChad
Originally posted by: doornail
George Ou is a troll that love Microsoft. It isn't even a real article, it's a "blog". Look how he jumps into the comments and argues every tiny detail like your typical forum dork.

Check out this gem where he argues that Linux is less secure than Windows based on stats he got from some shady hackers webring.

This is all about planting the concept that people aren't switching to Firefox in order to stop people from switching to firefox. The Mozilla folks are way more open about exploits and respond much faster.

I will never go back to IE. Firefox + Adbloc = thing of beauty.

From that article:

The zone-h report doesn't actually prove which OS is more secure, only that the OS is mostly irrelevant and the Windows server security jokes are more myth than fact.

The first part of this statement is 100 percent true. You can set up a Linux/Apache web server improperly and it will be completely open to outside attacks and exploits. By the same token, you can lock down a virtually impenetrable Windows/IIS box. The underlying OS is not nearly as important as how it's setup and administered.

This statement is right on. OS is not NEARLY as important as knowing wtf to do with it. Got a windows fanboy who can lock MS stuff down tight, and keep the functionality he wants, but he spent years in HP's datacenter working on windows boxes.
 

willstay

Member
May 4, 2005
83
0
0
I wouldn't be too surprized to know if MS pays hackers to read line by line open sourced FireFox for flaws.

I know how vulnarable IE is - when I need to browse crack/serial websites, I create instance of VMWare, browse from there and finally delete that instance.
 

The Linuxator

Banned
Jun 13, 2005
3,121
1
0
Originally posted by: willstay
I wouldn't be too surprized to know if MS pays hackers to read line by line open sourced FireFox for flaws.

I know how vulnarable IE is - when I need to browse crack/serial websites, I create instance of VMWare, browse from there and finally delete that instance.


Wow all that to get a crack, get a Live Cd and go through every website there is.
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
0
0
One thing to keep in mind is that when comparing security vunerabilities is the criticality of the problem.

For instance Mozilla does things like bug bounties and such. Since it's open source the amount of people able to look and prod around the code is much higher. With IE there may be flaws but they won't be commented on unless they are actually exploitable.

The proof is in the pudding when you look at the type of vunerabilities. Firefox may have dozens of smaller and more insignficant flaws found.. this is going to be normal for the rapid state of developement and relative youth of the browser.

IE on the other hand tends to get much more crippling and severe flaws due to it's (relatively) ancient code base.

Both projects are huge. Mozilla project has millions and millions of lines of code that they go thru....

Mozilla project isn't just about a browser. It's a entire web-based (or not) application developement platform.

People have used it to build numerious different browsers other then Mozilla or Firefox, they've used it for IDE's, custom intraweb applications, ftp/email/calender clients, word proccessors and all sorts of other stuff.

There is even a experimental Linux distro were they've used Mozilla technology and javascript programming to build a entire User Interface designed specificly for simple users and koisk stuff.

If your curious what that looks like here is a screenshot: http://www.symphonyos.com/screenshots/beta1-desklets-ss.png
http://www.symphonyos.com/
(they have a live cd aviable via bittorrent if you want to try it out)


For firefox vs explorer keep this in mind:
(from secunia)
22 advisories for Firefox 1.x, out of those 14% are unpatched and the highest unpatched critial level is rated 'less critical' (level 2 out of 5). Out of the total of 22 advisories 23% are rated 'highly critical'.
http://secunia.com/product/4227/

69 advisories for IE 6.x from 2003-2005. Out of those 28% are unpatched with the highest unpatched threat level is rated 'highly critical' (level 4 out of 5). Out of the total of 69 advisories 14% are 'Extremely Critical' compared to Firefox which has NO level 5 vunerabilities. 29% of those 69 advisories rate highly critical.

So there you have it.
With IE 6.x since 2003 you have about 30 vunerabilities that rate at or above the highest level of threat level of any vunerability that Firefox has aviable, according to secunia. In comparision firefox has a total of FIVE vunerabilites that got the 'highly critical' rating.

_all_ of those have patches aviable.. unlike IE 6.x.

IF your using Windows XP with SP2 installed you can be reasonably safe using IE. Many of those vunerabilities are mitigated by some of SP2's special security features... HOWEVER if your using Windows 2000, Windows ME, Windows 98, or any other Windows OS (such as server editions) it is VERY bad policy to use IE on them to browse the internet more then is absolutely nessicary. Microsoft does not care about maintaining application security in anything other then it's latest OS and latest service pack level, apparently. Which is perfectly fine for MS if they want to do that. Stuff costs money. With Firefox, since it's OS independant, you can be sure to get most of the latest security measures/patches aviable irregardless of your platform.
 

spyordie007

Diamond Member
May 28, 2001
6,229
0
0
With Firefox, since it's OS independant, you can be sure to get most of the latest security measures/patches aviable irregardless of your platform.
So long as you continue to upgrade to the latest version of FF, typically the patches arent made for older branches
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
0
0
Originally posted by: spyordie007
With Firefox, since it's OS independant, you can be sure to get most of the latest security measures/patches aviable irregardless of your platform.
So long as you continue to upgrade to the latest version of FF, typically the patches arent made for older branches

Older branches were also beta products, mind you.
 

CTho9305

Elite Member
Jul 26, 2000
9,214
1
81
Originally posted by: spyordie007
With Firefox, since it's OS independant, you can be sure to get most of the latest security measures/patches aviable irregardless of your platform.
So long as you continue to upgrade to the latest version of FF, typically the patches arent made for older branches

That's completely untrue.
 
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