Discussion Is this why we can't get along?

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,277
6,930
136
Seems our reality now is as different as our grades were back in school.


One Trumpanzee trumpets that the only good thing that Biden did is school loan debt but Trump would do more lol.

Can't talk to them.
Can't relate to them.
Can't copulate with them.
No wonder why we don't date.
We might as well be different species!
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,628
6,180
126
All I saw was a bunch of very sad people clinging to what they clearly know are lies and incapable of allowing themselves to cry over how far their anger has led them into becoming what they despise. I saw people who psychological demeanor who thought they had come to God but were distracted by hints in the air they had, instead, willingly walked into a slaughter house.
 
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Lezunto

Golden Member
Oct 24, 2020
1,070
968
106


1. I am the Lord thy Trump. You shall have no other gods before me.

2. Thou shalt make unto thee many graven images of my likeness. For I look good as a deity should.

3. Thou shalt not take the name of thy Trump in vain. And don’t mention my hair.

4. Remember the Tax Cut and keep it holy.

5. Remember my first wife and honor my second. My third wife thou must bow down to.

6. Thou shalt not kill anyone White.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thy Trump is the only one who can do that.

8. Thou shalt not steal. Call it a necessary appropriation.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against Republicans. Everyone else is fair game.

10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his maidservant. For that is the task of the Lord, thy Trump.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,452
13,034
136
Whatever we have "evolved" over the past 50.000 years, it's entirely depended on our ability to stuff knowledge into our skulls generation over generation over generation.
All you have to do is stop learning and its back to stupid flat earth and space lasers.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,277
6,930
136
Whatever we have "evolved" over the past 50.000 years, it's entirely depended on our ability to stuff knowledge into our skulls generation over generation over generation.
All you have to do is stop learning and its back to stupid flat earth and space lasers.

I think because we're educated well enough to understand how some things work, we misunderstand how people work.

A mythical rebellion built on a hoax always sells better to the uneducated than the truth.

If you think Jan 6th or any election is the end of it.. we're mistaken. It's proven to them government doesn't work for them like a dictatorship with no free speech would.

And they will make it happen for themselves.

Different species indeed..
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,628
6,180
126
I think because we're educated well enough to understand how some things work, we misunderstand how people work.

A mythical rebellion built on a hoax always sells better to the uneducated than the truth.

If you think Jan 6th or any election is the end of it.. we're mistaken. It's proven to them government doesn't work for them like a dictatorship with no free speech would.

And they will make it happen for themselves.

Different species indeed..
How does them seeing you as a contemptible species differ from you seeing them as a contemptible species?
 

nOOky

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2004
2,887
1,903
136
Those folks are obviously idiots. What amazes me are the intelligent people that think this way. I sit in meetings with people that are intellectually intelligent and technically very smart, but politically they are fucking whackadoodles. It must be the fear they constantly live under.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,452
13,034
136
Those folks are obviously idiots. What amazes me are the intelligent people that think this way. I sit in meetings with people that are intellectually intelligent and technically very smart, but politically they are fucking whackadoodles. It must be the fear they constantly live under.
Well if you’re not in control of your diet and the only thing on the menu is crap, you gonna be fat.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,533
7,591
136
How does them seeing you as a contemptible species differ from you seeing them as a contemptible species?
You ask the right question. Something I have struggled with since 2017.
The more I see, the more dogma, group-think, and tribalism I witness. From everyone, everywhere.
It helped for me to recognize the distinction between those few who seek the truth, VS all else who merely proclaim they are the truth.
Only way we could distinguish ourselves from any other ordinary person, is if we value facts, logic, and reason. If we do our best to apply them and abide by their results, even if we do not like what we find. How we arrive at our conclusions must matter to us more than the conclusions themselves. Otherwise we'll just be another tribe lost to madness.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,628
6,180
126
You ask the right question. Something I have struggled with since 2017.
The more I see, the more dogma, group-think, and tribalism I witness. From everyone, everywhere.
It helped for me to recognize the distinction between those few who seek the truth, VS all else who merely proclaim they are the truth.
Only way we could distinguish ourselves from any other ordinary person, is if we value facts, logic, and reason. If we do our best to apply them and abide by their results, even if we do not like what we find. How we arrive at our conclusions must matter to us more than the conclusions themselves. Otherwise we'll just be another tribe lost to madness.
I have struggled with this too. But my struggle took an unexpected turn. I tried to use facts logic and reason to prove that facts logic and reason yield the same truth for any who actually use them. I sought a truth that could be proved to anyone who would consider it rationally. But I failed. Out of the hopelessness of that insight I had another, that was very strange and different. I realized that truth logic facts reason, thinking, comparison and analysis are all meaningless. The truth is like water for a fish, we have our being in it. You know the truth when you give up on it. The struggle turns off and the child within appears. The truth is what we swim in. We struggle because we had needs that we feel weren't met and that's just a feeling that has no reality. This is how I see it.

What we fear is to be unguarded and open, to be innocent and naive, because that was the state we were in when we were poisoned by lies.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,577
4,657
136
Those folks are obviously idiots. What amazes me are the intelligent people that think this way. I sit in meetings with people that are intellectually intelligent and technically very smart, but politically they are fucking whackadoodles. It must be the fear they constantly live under.
So true... observe them in most crowded, stressful situations, or even behind the wheel in traffic. Madness soon replaces reason.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,196
28,024
136
Seems our reality now is as different as our grades were back in school.


One Trumpanzee trumpets that the only good thing that Biden did is school loan debt but Trump would do more lol.

Can't talk to them.
Can't relate to them.
Can't copulate with them.
No wonder why we don't date.
We might as well be different species!
Maybe I missed how Joe Biden shutdown oil production
 
Reactions: hal2kilo

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,301
15,083
136
I have struggled with this too. But my struggle took an unexpected turn. I tried to use facts logic and reason to prove that facts logic and reason yield the same truth for any who actually use them. I sought a truth that could be proved to anyone who would consider it rationally. But I failed. Out of the hopelessness of that insight I had another, that was very strange and different. I realized that truth logic facts reason, thinking, comparison and analysis are all meaningless. The truth is like water for a fish, we have our being in it. You know the truth when you give up on it. The struggle turns off and the child within appears. The truth is what we swim in. We struggle because we had needs that we feel weren't met and that's just a feeling that has no reality. This is how I see it.

What we fear is to be unguarded and open, to be innocent and naive, because that was the state we were in when we were poisoned by lies.

How does one fail at finding the truth unless they don’t really want to know the truth?

I’m with jaskalass on this. It’s very easy to succumb to group think, no one is immune from it, it’s a primitive trait that has served humans well for hundreds of thousands of years. What I’ve found is that when I come across something that is counter to my beliefs or a knock against “my team” (I don’t have a team but I recognize I side with one political party more than another) instead of dismissing the claim I will look it up and see if I can verify it. If I’m able to verify it, I accept it. If you find yourself dismissing claims with out looking to see if the claims are true, then you’ve succumbed to group think. It requires one to not care about being wrong if it means knowing the truth. With enough practice it becomes second nature and you will find yourself fact checking a lot no matter which “side” made the claim.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,628
6,180
126
How does one fail at finding the truth unless they don’t really want to know the truth?

I’m with jaskalass on this. It’s very easy to succumb to group think, no one is immune from it, it’s a primitive trait that has served humans well for hundreds of thousands of years. What I’ve found is that when I come across something that is counter to my beliefs or a knock against “my team” (I don’t have a team but I recognize I side with one political party more than another) instead of dismissing the claim I will look it up and see if I can verify it. If I’m able to verify it, I accept it. If you find yourself dismissing claims with out looking to see if the claims are true, then you’ve succumbed to group think. It requires one to not care about being wrong if it means knowing the truth. With enough practice it becomes second nature and you will find yourself fact checking a lot no matter which “side” made the claim.
How do I answer this question? First off it was itself the answer.

1. You don't find it. It finds you. The search for truth is the ego seeking affirmation of its raison d'etre. It is a game the ego plays to keep you from feeling what it came into existence to protect you from. It is the sense of "I" that enables you to identify yourself with whatever conditioned source of good you were forced to accept as authoritative. It is your ego. It is there to protect you from pain that you would not have survived as a child had you not transferred being yourself into an external approved so called good.

When you go looking for truth your ego does the looking so it deceives you at every turn. You as this ego do not want to know the truth because knowing the truth would mean remembering the pain that caused this schism between who you were and what you had to become, the pain of the loss of real identity and the simple joy of being who you were.

2. I am not talking about say whether welfare disables or empowers people, political questions and the like. I am talking about Truth with a capital T. What is the meaning of life. What is the fundamental premises by which you live your life, how you really feel. Who are you and what motivates your actions, what does it all mean. These questions are perhaps only important to people who suffer, or more to the point, those who know that they do. The whole point of the ego is to remain unaware.

3. We experience fear when the ego is threatened. How does that work. It happens when the validity of our ego identification with the good is threatened by something in the present that reminds of our repressive past, when once again we are told our identity, who we really were and now what we became instead, come under attack. This is why we herd like animals hoping for the safety of numbers. The like minded do not challenge the illusions they hold in common.

But regardless of how rigorous one's intellect is regarding proving fact from fiction as long as there is ego identification that has not recovered its source there will be some form of prevarication. Truth is not words, principle, theories, ideas, philosophy. It is a state of being, awareness in the present. You don't find it. You wake up to the fact it is you and what you have always been. It is so utterly simple except the truth is the last place we were permitted to think it is. You were told you deserve punishment and guilt.
 

Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,753
2,291
136
Pretty much. There are multiple realities in this country (and others) and it's fed by fake news and influencers that supply the facts to match the beliefs (instead of the other way around).

I just stay away from the crazy as best I can, which isn't easy in the state I live. Family members I still have contact with stay that way due to a no-politics policy. There's little point in discussion when you don't share a basic understanding of reality. An example is a creationist and atheist discussion how life came about and/or evolution. Been there, done that. More productive to hammer my toes for a few hours than to talk politics with a Trumper, at least I'll get some exercise.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,534
29,147
136
I have struggled with this too. But my struggle took an unexpected turn. I tried to use facts logic and reason to prove that facts logic and reason yield the same truth for any who actually use them. I sought a truth that could be proved to anyone who would consider it rationally. But I failed. Out of the hopelessness of that insight I had another, that was very strange and different. I realized that truth logic facts reason, thinking, comparison and analysis are all meaningless. The truth is like water for a fish, we have our being in it. You know the truth when you give up on it. The struggle turns off and the child within appears. The truth is what we swim in. We struggle because we had needs that we feel weren't met and that's just a feeling that has no reality. This is how I see it.

What we fear is to be unguarded and open, to be innocent and naive, because that was the state we were in when we were poisoned by lies.
You can't find the truth. What you can do is not believe false things and not spread misinformation. Everyone can do that. You asked the difference between species. The difference is one species universally does not care when ideas they believe are demonstrably false.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,628
6,180
126
You can't find the truth.
The you we call I is the ego, not who you really are. It can't find truth because it is not the true self. Truth is when one is real.
What you can do is not believe false things and not spread misinformation.
What you can do is not take yourself seriously, not attach yourself to belief as though you know anything. You can notice that everything is an opinion and begin to see where you acquired them. Most people are followers, cultural conformists.
Everyone can do that. You asked the difference between species. The difference is one species universally does not care when ideas they believe are demonstrably false.
You may notice that people who don't care weren't really cared for. We don't even know how to care for ourselves. This is a product of self hate, having been put down as a child.
 
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