Article It looks like Apple finally upgraded the Mac Pro...

[manly]

Ummmm. What now?
Every monitor I've ever bought has a stand that raises, lowers, tilts and rotates 90°, and those came free with the monitor. What engineering in this costs a thousand dollars? Or are you saying that the Apple tax has got really spendy recently?

https://9to5mac.com/2019/06/06/msi-mocks-apple-pro-display/

I'm not saying it's worth $600 to me, but the VESA mount alone is $200. The display magnetically attaches to the precision-machined stand. What I'm saying is that the Apple tax is always going to annoy us, but it's gotten worse the longer Tim Cook has been CEO.

Again, comparing the display/standard to consumer monitors or comparing the Mac Pro to a HEDT is totally missing the point. We are not the intended customers.

 

[WelshBloke]

https://9to5mac.com/2019/06/06/msi-mocks-apple-pro-display/

I'm not saying it's worth $600 to me, but the VESA mount alone is $200. The display magnetically attaches to the precision-machined stand. What I'm saying is that the Apple tax is always going to annoy us, but it's gotten worse the longer Tim Cook has been CEO.

Given the target audience the monitor should have been VESA compatible from the start, but then I guess they couldn't sell a stand with a BOM of $20 for $1k.

Again, comparing the display/standard to consumer monitors or comparing the Mac Pro to a HEDT is totally missing the point. We are not the intended customers.

I dont have a problem with the pricing of the actual monitor, if you take away the Apple tax it's just an expensive semi pro monitor.

 

[Zaap]

Seriously, though... besides a few wealthy iOS developers and media creators with more money than brains, who's going to buy one of these things?

Even Apple fans like myself have limits on how much BS they're willing to put up with. Personally, I think that they're crossing the line (again) into price gouging territory now. They've done this for before with their $17,000 Gold Apple Watches and special $7,500 "Anniversary Edition" Macintosh systems, which were total flops when it came to sales.

Please.

Have you ever set foot in just about ANY world-class professional creative space. I'm not talking someone's 'home' anything, but places where *EVERYTHING* you watch or listen to is made.

Pick one.

Electric Lady Studios in NYC:

http://electricladystudios.com/studios/studio-a-2/

Studio A:

• COMPUTER SPECS :
• Mac Pro (Late 2013)
• Processor: 2.7 GHz 12-Core Intel Xeon E5
• Memory: 32 GB 1866 MHz DDR3
• Mac OS: High Sierra

Studio B:

• COMPUTER SPECS :
• Mac Pro (Late 2013)
• Processor: 3 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon E5
• Memory: 32 GB 1866 MHz DDR3
• Mac OS: High Sierra

..and same story throughout the studio.

And you can pick ANY studio, virtually anywhere- Hollywood, NYC, Nashville, London, Paris I don't care where- if they aren't using Macs exclusively, they have Macs in their workflow because any number of their clients will be using Macs.

These are outfits that don't blush twice at equipment that costs BUKO bucks, as long as it does what they need. The asking price for even a top of the line cheese-grater Mac Pro is nothing if your clients (who make chart topping music, hit TV shows, blockbuster movies etc) want ProTools running on a Mac.

Today someone I know who does broadcast color work told me the new monitors- stands and all- are a steal, as the usual broadcast-quality monitor equipment they use costs $10k and up. The Apple monitor competes in the same space and actually is a steal.

If you're a major production outfit and you've been stuck using 2013 computers all this time, YES VIRGINIA, you're going to pony up for the new MacPro.

 

[ultimatebob]

Heh... an exclusive Greenwich Village NYC recording studio sounds like it would fit under my "Creative Types with more money than brains" caveat I mentioned earlier.

That said, if they wanted to they could upgrade to an iMac Pro and get better performance than what they have with their old "trash can" Mac Pro systems now without spending over $10,000 each for new ones. Pro Tools isn't a Mac exclusive product, either, and they could switch over to something like a Dell or HP workstation class computer at a much lower cost with similar performance.

 

[Zaap]

Yeah the studio founded by Jimi Hendrix.

And I told you. Pick ANY studio in the world. Abbey Road. (Just checked and Abbey Road even used Logic Pro X) Sunset Sound. You name it. Check their equipment lists and notice the Macs. Go head 'smart' guy.

You think places that can afford anything that exists yet choose to stick with 6 yo MacPros blush at the price of the new MacPro?

If you honestly think so you're not one to talk about brains my friend.

Here's the thing. Its petulant online knuckleheads who throw virtual temper tantrums when Apple and others release products not meant for them and claim to storm off to Linux and Windows. No one is looking to those types for anything, so they can storm off and play solitaire or whatever on whatever.

But in the real world? If an artist books your studio and he/she uses ProTools or whatever on a Mac... your studio is providing ProTools on a Mac. You spend actual time in just about any creative environment and you'll see plenty of Macs. You'll see Apple logos in the top corner of nearly every monitor screen. Google the control rooms of any place you choose and see for yourself. You actually talk to the people engineering and producing ... loads of Mac users.

That's the real world, and that's who Apple is marketing to. Now you can storm off to your windows or Linux box and 'show them!' like a petulant child. But no one cares.

 

[WelshBloke]

So if they have been able to get by on ancient hardware up until now why do they suddenly need need to pay a fortune for new hardware and why does somewhere to do with sound need to pay over the odds for a monitor stand?

 

[Zaap]

So if they have been able to get by on ancient hardware up until now why do they suddenly need need to pay a fortune for new hardware and why does somewhere to do with sound need to pay over the odds for a monitor stand?

The main reason is those old computers aren't keeping up with the newer versions of MacOS. Notice that Electric Lady is still rocking High Sierra. I know exactly why they are because we deal with the same issue at Fox. We need newer hardware for Mojave and beyond, and Apple hasn't made newer hardware til now. (Yeah there's the imac Pro but anyone with half a brain can tell its not a true workstation expandable with all the gear studios need.)

Hell many aren't even running trash cans but the OLD school tower Mac Pros because they still check enough boxes to get the job done. But plenty are chomping at the bit for a true replacement for them.

Now to be clear... plenty of places use Windows. I know of whole productions that said 'see ya!' to Apple and switched over. Of course.

But... Apple still has a HUGE base in professional places. That's who these machines are for.

The benefit is to peeps who want the compatibility/expandability going forward. If you're a major artist in a couple of months and you walk into what should be among the best studios in the world.... and they aren't rockin' a cheese-grater for you? What kinda Mickey Mouse rinky Dink outfit is this? In a world where a good microphone can cost $45k the f is the big deal about these prices for the computers you're going to advertise you're using?

As for the monitor stand ... again... if what you already need in broadcast work costs in the 10k range... why are you peeing yourself over a 7k (with stand) monitor if it does what you need?

Did people imagine apple is making those for freakin' iOS developers or people who actually need a broadcast quality monitor?

 

[WelshBloke]

...The benefit is to peeps who want the compatibility/expandability going forward. If you're a major artist in a couple of months and you walk into what should be among the best studios in the world.... and they aren't rockin' a cheese-grater for you? What kinda Mickey Mouse rinky Dink outfit is this? In a world where a good microphone can cost $45k the f is the big deal about these prices for the computers you're going to advertise you're using?

As for the monitor stand ... again... if what you already need in broadcast work costs in the 10k range... why are you peeing yourself over a 7k (with stand) monitor if it does what you need?

Did people imagine apple is making those for freakin' iOS developers or people who actually need a broadcast quality monitor?

You appear to be saying that people will be buying these for the image?
Which is ironic because that case triggers my trychophobia and makes me feel queasy to look at it!

 

[Zaap]

You appear to be saying that people will be buying these for the image?
Which is ironic because that case triggers my trychophobia and makes me feel queasy to look at it!

The 'image' is using what your clients expect, want and need. In many pro spaces that's a Mac workstation with no limits on the amount of plug-ins, latest versions of software and OS's etc.

Is there a logical reason to you why places hanging on to machines from 2010 and 2013 wouldn't upgrade to an asskicking machine from 2019?

(And I mean real world reasons, not petulant child internet nerd reasons)


Do you imagine it has to do with blushing at 'high' prices when they could choose to use *ANYTHING* that exists now.... but don't?

Its funny to me this is even any kind of revalation to people. True pro level hardware is EXPENSIVE. But when you're dealing in millions, thousands is not a big deal.

And yeah, gee I know it must be so petty. People spending huge amounts of money on sessions want to see that you don't nickel and dime on hardware! THE NERVE!

Sure, I wish Apple would make a $1500 tower Mac that was fully expandable. But they ain't gunna. It's clearly not their business model anymore. I don't like that...but these Mac Pros aren't really for that market. Its for people who absilutly WILL pay for the upgrade they've wanted for years now... heck since 2013 even.

 

[ultimatebob]

So, basically you're saying that the people who will spend $10,000 for a new Cheese Grater Mac Pro (because the $6,000 stock model has a pathetic amount of stock storage, basically guaranteeing that most people will upgrade) are the same type of people who will spend $45,000 for a microphone?

It seems that we have agreement on the "music moguls with more money than brains" buying argument for the Mac Pro after all!

Hey... it's still cheaper than a new Bugatti, I guess, which you apparently also "need" to get top tier status as a musician nowadays.

 

[Zaap]

Why do people insist on showing their ignorance so proudly online? One day you'll know enough to be embarrassed.

You wouldn't know why a microphone could cost 45k because you're not running a top of the line studio. Or a top of the line anything. It's simply not relevant to your mom's basement.

Frankly it's kinda dumb... no... REALLY dumb to not know that professional gear is expensive.

Don't worry. With that mentality you will NEVER be in any danger of affording a Bugatti.

 

[ultimatebob]

Why do people insist on showing their ignorance so proudly online? One day you'll know enough to be embarrassed.

You wouldn't know why a microphone could cost 45k because you're not running a top of the line studio. Or a top of the line anything. It's simply not relevant to your mom's basement.

Frankly it's kinda dumb... no... REALLY dumb to not know that professional gear is expensive.

Don't worry. With that mentality you will NEVER be in any danger of affording a Bugatti.

OK, help me out then. Where do I get a $45,000 microphone, and why it is so much better than say... a $10,000 one?

I can't even find one for sale online, so I'm genuinely curious. I could see myself cutting a check for a $45,000 server where I work (because they would have a genuine business need for it), but I'm not sure why I'd need to spend that much for a microphone.

 

[Zaap]

OK, help me out then. Where do I get a $45,000 microphone, and why it is so much better than say... a $10,000 one?

I can't even find one for sale online, so I'm genuinely curious. I could see myself cutting a check for a $45,000 server where I work (because they would have a genuine business need for it), but I'm not sure why I'd need to spend that much for a microphone.

Well I'm guessing you don't have artists coming in paying top dollar requesting the same custom one-of-a-kind microphone used on thus and such classic album. Major studios do.

You're one of those people who just because you don't know something, you assume the people that do are somehow 'dumb'. The irony of that is it only makes you look dumb.

Let me ask you this, why does this monitor cost 32K? Do you have any clue?

https://www.adorama.com/tvlum310r.html?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=adl-gbase

I doubt it, and yet there is it. Now, you're probably the type who goes "Well that's stupid! I'd just use my Dell monitor blah blah blah...." and of course if you actually did doing the kind of work this is used for, you'd be fired because it can't begin to show the color accuracy that's the reason why a piece of gear like this exists.

But if a person who DOES know what this monitor is for and how to use it could get by at their gig with an Apple monitor for a fraction of the cost, then why would they cry over the damn stand?

Likewise, any company/studio/individual still using a 2010 or 2013 era computer (which they clearly STILL consider the right tool for the job, not some PC or anything else) to do millions of dollars worth of work isn't really looking at the cost of the MacPro the same way as you are. (Basically, that's cluelessly.)

 

[senseamp]

I think people and companies are going to buy the stupid stand just because it's a status symbol now that everyone knows it's $1000.

 

[eikelbijter]

Wow, salty discussion here!

Unlike any of you (it seems) I have actually recorded at those top-notch studios (Capitol, Ocean Way etc.), played on a few top ten songs, produced my own records, have a Grammy nomination. Not bragging, just letting you know I'm no internet troll with no credentials.

Now first off: there are $45,000 mics and in my opinion they are NOT worth that. These days you can buy incredibly inexpensive mics that are amazing and as hard as it is to believe even the most trained ears would be hard pressed to even differentiate between cheap and expensive these days. Not to say there aren't crappy ones, but there's no need to ever spend more than a couple of hundred dollars on one, in MY opinion.

As far as Macs go: of course there are a FEW studios where money is no object, but believe me, many of the big ones have been hurting, and most actual pro users here in L.A. (very much the land of the Fruit) are balking at Apple's prices. There are what, 100 AAA studios in the whole world put together? That's not even close to a market.... I see many, many smaller studios here struggling with ancient cheese graters, or even MacBooks!

Then there is the fact that software compatibility is a huge problem in MacOS these days ESPECIALLY when combined with ProTools. Literally most Mac users I know are VERY afraid to upgrade anything because it means a lot of their trusted tools will not work anymore.. An actor friend of mine with an unlimited budget (oh, those network TV paydays are unbelievable) bought an $8000 iMac, the newest version of ProTools, and a top-of-the-line Thunderbolt interface: it never worked! I'm not kidding, he tried everything, even called me, the Windows evangelist!

Bottom line: these new Mac Pros are really only for big rendering scenarios and of course people with more dollars than sense, to go with their other status symbols. A number of big time studios will probably have to buy them since almost all of them are still on 2013 Cheese Graters (oh the irony), but that's not a significant market.

In the meantime, Pro-tools has matured completely on Windows, and when you're not arbitrarily forced to buy a low-end Xeon in a $6000 system, you can build an i9 Windows machine that's actually faster for under $2000, in a nice case!

It's a strange world we live in, I'll tell ya....

 

[Zaap]

As far as Macs go: of course there are a FEW studios where money is no object, but believe me, many of the big ones have been hurting, and most actual pro users here in L.A. (very much the land of the Fruit) are balking at Apple's prices. There are what, 100 AAA studios in the whole world put together? That's not even close to a market.... I see many, many smaller studios here struggling with ancient cheese graters, or even MacBooks!

It's not a matter of money being no object. Macs dominate here at Fox in production. IT and most people using them simply prefer the Mac.
The fact that you see "many many" smaller studios struggling with MacBooks and the chesse grater Macs (which date from 2010) isn't exactly a slam against the popularity of Macs in studios! It's pretty much what I was saying- all such places have chosen to stick with Macs- those are the ONLY Macs that exist until the Mac Pros are available! And they're still using Macs that are up to 9 years old rather than switch to PCs. If people are hanging on that long to old equipment because it's what they prefer, there IS a subset who will upgrade to the new.

The size of the market? Why do you or I care? It's not our business. Apple sees a market there and are (long overdue) supplying it.

It's pretty much what I said initially- this upgrade is for the holdouts, those that have kept using the only Macs that exist for the job (older ones) and who are over a barrel to have to pony up whatever Apple asks for an upgrade.

https://www.musicradar.com/news/app...ed-and-harnesses-the-power-of-the-new-mac-pro

Apple just upgraded Logic Pro X, for example, to take advantage of the 56 threads the new MacPro can utilize. That will allow 1000 tracks of audio, 1000 MIDI tracks, 12 sends per track, WITH full plug-in support. Is that for common users? No. It's not even for MOST recording setups. But for those that want and need the potential of all that power- this the ONLY game in town. Apple knows it, so the asking price isn't cheap.

As for Windows in certain critical areas of production- I've experienced the potential problem with that myself. And those are... WINDOWS. and MICROSOFT.

Make no mistake- I'm a big advocate of PC hardware. Have been for years. My sig is the main PC I built back in 2012 running OSX, instead of dealing with Apple's complete lack of a hardware solution. I personally don't care for Apple's hardware. I prefer the combination of PC hardware, and OSX as the OS.

However: Microsoft until just recently was known for forcing updates in Windows 10 at ridculous times. Windows itself can just plain be a glitch fest at just the wrong time. It can run fine for hours- but then right as you're doing say, the final take of a performer who nails it before their voice quits- that's when Windows will pull some insane driver crap-out issue, throw up an arcane error message, put a glitch in the take and just generally fuck up. Out of the blue, randomly.

Mac OSX on a pro machine simply doesn't fuck up. A MacPro can go for months and never suffer a glitch. It will work in a critical session, every time.

People I know that use Windows for critical work (meaning if the machine fucks up- even for a split instant- you can ruin a performance costing thousands of dollars of someone's time) and they tell me it's a must to run through a checklist of things that have to be turned off in Windows to guarantee there's no fuck-ups during a long session. I even for the most part like Windows myself, but I know this to be true about it. There's more times I'm frustrated with my Windows machines for some random glitch than I ever am with my OSX machines. For some, that consistency and not dealing with Microsoft is clearly worth it.