It's a two way street

[JJChicken]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Crono
Congrats on hitting 50,000 posts in this dump

Why is racism all of a sudden allowed with Obama being President?

This

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: swbsam

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: swbsam

Because.. Um.. Why would you complain if you were not the victim of unfair moderation, or are too scared to say anything?

Yes, I think you guys are trying to control the content of your audience... Isn't that creepy, dudes?

Of course, some things are just obviously wrong- let's not turn this forum into a place to trade child porn.. But, beyond that, shouldn't trying to control the content of your audience be avoided?

I'm a moderator by profession (i.e. i get paid), and never shape the conversation to my liking - most of my job is the boring task of weeding out spam.. And I don't feel like a bad ass cop for doing this, and I don't feel tough.. You guys are a little too macho for your own good..

What we are is older than the average member and a lot of us have been members since prior to the conversion to Fusetalk. I know that when I became a Moderator I really had to tone down my rhetoric.

I do understand though what you mean about controlling content, a while ago I gave out a vacation to a member who posted a poll about penis size. Now if it would have been the first, second or even third time he had done something like that I probably would have warned him and locked the thread but he had a long history of posting stuff like that and had been warned numerous times.I thought giving him the vacation was warranted. Do you think I was being to much of a tough guy for that action?

Why not let stupid threads die on their own? What exactly is the point of getting involved just because one moderator (out of 75) finds something stupid? Let your user base decide what thread is worth while and not by not bumping stupid threads.

Kind of like 4Chan?

It works at TFNN, you know it, and you even like it.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Do we need two TFNNs? I like the idea that ATOT is a more-or-less work-safe OT forum. There are a ton of forums on the net to find the crazy, outlandish crap, but there are few that can be as much fun and yet as well moderated as ATOT. Like most users I have had problems with the way things are moderated from time to time and the inconsistency is frustrating, but I'd still rather they err on the side of over-moderation than let the forum turn into yet another BB.com.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: swbsam

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: swbsam

Because.. Um.. Why would you complain if you were not the victim of unfair moderation, or are too scared to say anything?

Yes, I think you guys are trying to control the content of your audience... Isn't that creepy, dudes?

Of course, some things are just obviously wrong- let's not turn this forum into a place to trade child porn.. But, beyond that, shouldn't trying to control the content of your audience be avoided?

I'm a moderator by profession (i.e. i get paid), and never shape the conversation to my liking - most of my job is the boring task of weeding out spam.. And I don't feel like a bad ass cop for doing this, and I don't feel tough.. You guys are a little too macho for your own good..

What we are is older than the average member and a lot of us have been members since prior to the conversion to Fusetalk. I know that when I became a Moderator I really had to tone down my rhetoric.

I do understand though what you mean about controlling content, a while ago I gave out a vacation to a member who posted a poll about penis size. Now if it would have been the first, second or even third time he had done something like that I probably would have warned him and locked the thread but he had a long history of posting stuff like that and had been warned numerous times.I thought giving him the vacation was warranted. Do you think I was being to much of a tough guy for that action?

Why not let stupid threads die on their own? What exactly is the point of getting involved just because one moderator (out of 75) finds something stupid? Let your user base decide what thread is worth while and not by not bumping stupid threads.

Kind of like 4Chan?

It works at TFNN, you know it, and you even like it.

you can't compare TFNN and here. they have diffrent post/forum rules/ and far less users.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Do we need two TFNNs? I like the idea that ATOT is a more-or-less work-safe OT forum. There are a ton of forums on the net to find the crazy, outlandish crap, but there are few that can be as much fun and yet as well moderated as ATOT. Like most users I have had problems with the way things are moderated from time to time and the inconsistency is frustrating, but I'd still rather they err on the side of over-moderation than let the forum turn into yet another BB.com.

I could not agree with you more.

 

[MotionMan]

The problem is not too much or too little moderation. Consistency of moderation is the issue, Red Dawn has acknowledged that it is, and he has said that it is being looked into.

There is probably not much more we can do about the issue except to continue to point out the inconsistencies until they do not exist anymore.

MotionMan

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: MotionMan
The problem is not too much or too little moderation. Consistency of moderation is the issue, Red Dawn has acknowledged that it is, and he has said that it is being looked into.

There is probably not much more we can do about the issue except to continue to point out the inconsistencies until they do not exist anymore.

MotionMan

Inconsistencies are caused by the need for subjectiveness.
Subjectiveness is caused because not all the rules/guidelines are able to be laid out in black and white.
All the rules/guidelines can not be laid out because people will attempt to circumvent what is written and then plead that it does not say NO so it must be considered to be OK

And the context of a post/phrase also has to be taken into account.

As an example, when we had the language filter, people still found ways around it and then would plead that the filter allowed it, so they could did it.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Dirigible

If you mods are tired of users, it can't be that hard to stop being a mod. I know it hasn't been hard to greatly reduce my visits to AT forums since the moderating has been going to hell.

If you are tired of the way we moderate the forums, it can't be that hard to stop posting.

People are indeed purposefully doing what they know is bannable out of annoyance for the ridiculous moderating and flimsy reasons given.

Welcome to your own ridiculous self pwnage. :laugh:

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: MotionMan
The problem is not too much or too little moderation. Consistency of moderation is the issue, Red Dawn has acknowledged that it is, and he has said that it is being looked into.

There is probably not much more we can do about the issue except to continue to point out the inconsistencies until they do not exist anymore.

MotionMan

Inconsistencies are caused by the need for subjectiveness.
Subjectiveness is caused because not all the rules/guidelines are able to be laid out in black and white.
All the rules/guidelines can not be laid out because people will attempt to circumvent what is written and then plead that it does not say NO so it must be considered to be OK

And the context of a post/phrase also has to be taken into account.

As an example, when we had the language filter, people still found ways around it and then would plead that the filter allowed it, so they could did it.

I do not believe that your complaints regarding the behavior of the members applies to any of the examples I posted previously. For example, I am not sure there is lot of subjective analysis that goes into allowing one member (or moderator) to call another member a "huge dick", "dumbfuck" or "fucking moron" but not allow another member to call someone an "ass".

Obviously, I believe that I have been the victim of uneven moderation. I believe I have provided ample evidence of this fact above. I do not consider myself one who pushes the limits and, in fact, other than having to respond to the actions of one particular member and one particular senior moderator (actions that are clearly in violation of the written rules of AT), I do not believe that I have been any trouble at all on AT (I have not seen the mod notes about me, so I am not sure what the moderation team has identified. If there are incidents I am forgetting about, please confidentially PM me).

That all being said, Red Dawn has assured us that the issue is being looked into and, hopefully, it will be resolved in the near future.

MotionMan

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Dirigible

If you mods are tired of users, it can't be that hard to stop being a mod. I know it hasn't been hard to greatly reduce my visits to AT forums since the moderating has been going to hell.

If you are tired of the way we moderate the forums, it can't be that hard to stop posting.

People are indeed purposefully doing what they know is bannable out of annoyance for the ridiculous moderating and flimsy reasons given.

Welcome to your own ridiculous self pwnage. :laugh:

If being a fair and consistent moderator is such a burden you could step down as well? The old 'If you don't like it, leave' line is old. When you have as many members complaining about this as you guys do, its not the members that are the problem.

 

[esquared]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Dirigible

If you mods are tired of users, it can't be that hard to stop being a mod. I know it hasn't been hard to greatly reduce my visits to AT forums since the moderating has been going to hell.

If you are tired of the way we moderate the forums, it can't be that hard to stop posting.

People are indeed purposefully doing what they know is bannable out of annoyance for the ridiculous moderating and flimsy reasons given.

Welcome to your own ridiculous self pwnage. :laugh:

If being a fair and consistent moderator is such a burden you could step down as well? The old 'If you don't like it, leave' line is old. When you have as many members complaining about this as you guys do, its not the members that are the problem.

What, a handful of members out of 200,000+?

No, the problem isn't with whole membership thinking there a problem here. It's with the <100 members here that do the most complaining. The ones that are yelling the loudest to make everyone think there's a problem.

I don't think the squeaky wheel gets the grease here.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Dirigible

If you mods are tired of users, it can't be that hard to stop being a mod. I know it hasn't been hard to greatly reduce my visits to AT forums since the moderating has been going to hell.

If you are tired of the way we moderate the forums, it can't be that hard to stop posting.

People are indeed purposefully doing what they know is bannable out of annoyance for the ridiculous moderating and flimsy reasons given.

Welcome to your own ridiculous self pwnage. :laugh:

If being a fair and consistent moderator is such a burden you could step down as well? The old 'If you don't like it, leave' line is old. When you have as many members complaining about this as you guys do, its not the members that are the problem.

Considering that the vocal complaints are maybe 10% of the problem children and the problem children are less than 1% of the membership; the mirror should be looked at.

There are certain members that get under certain moderators skin. No question about it.
How to handle the responses becomes a problem for all the Moderators and also it has been pushed up to Derek for advice (to no avail).

Some Moderators will use language/phrases that I personally do not approve of. If I am working within such a thread, I will call them out on it. Each of us have our own style and tolerances.

It would be nice if we could just have a single bot that could be programmed for all situations - we do not and the members know that they have a black, white and grey area to play in. The intensity of the grey area always shifts, part because of the Moderators and part because of the membership that wants to test the Moderator tolerances.

If there was no grey area, the membership would start to test the black area which is completely off limits. Do you ever see anyone complaining that they were banned for not including NSFW. Most of the membership will also chime in when someone pulls such a stunt.

 

[Crusty]

I'm curious, how many of the 'active' accounts have been logged into in the past year? I have a really hard time believing the active user base on the forums is over 200k. Perhaps 20k, but not 200k active members.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Crusty
I'm curious, how many of the 'active' accounts have been logged into in the past year? I have a really hard time believing the active user base on the forums is over 200k. Perhaps 20k, but not 200k active members.

If/when we go to vB, inactive users will be filtered out. Hopefully we will also have tools that allow better analysis of the user base.

 

[waggy]

as people been saying. consistency is the key.


P&N is a lively place.but that is one area the moderation is so screwed its kinda funny. IF this had been saying about the democrats then it would be locked up. but sinces its the GOP its fine.

the topic is whats wrong yet its allowed. sure some repubs think that way but nto all. so why is it ok to atribute to them all? when some that have been posted about dems locked?

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Dirigible

If you mods are tired of users, it can't be that hard to stop being a mod. I know it hasn't been hard to greatly reduce my visits to AT forums since the moderating has been going to hell.

If you are tired of the way we moderate the forums, it can't be that hard to stop posting.

People are indeed purposefully doing what they know is bannable out of annoyance for the ridiculous moderating and flimsy reasons given.

Welcome to your own ridiculous self pwnage. :laugh:

If being a fair and consistent moderator is such a burden you could step down as well? The old 'If you don't like it, leave' line is old. When you have as many members complaining about this as you guys do, its not the members that are the problem.

People value things in direct proportion to what they pay for them as is evidenced by how Anand and the membership here treat forum admins and mods. The staff here is treated like dog shiat that you scrap from the bottom of your shoes after accidentally stepping in it.

I stepped down because quite frankly this place and the people in it weren't worth the effort.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
I stepped down because quite frankly this place and the people in it weren't worth the effort.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: esquared

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Dirigible

If you mods are tired of users, it can't be that hard to stop being a mod. I know it hasn't been hard to greatly reduce my visits to AT forums since the moderating has been going to hell.

If you are tired of the way we moderate the forums, it can't be that hard to stop posting.

People are indeed purposefully doing what they know is bannable out of annoyance for the ridiculous moderating and flimsy reasons given.

Welcome to your own ridiculous self pwnage. :laugh:

If being a fair and consistent moderator is such a burden you could step down as well? The old 'If you don't like it, leave' line is old. When you have as many members complaining about this as you guys do, its not the members that are the problem.

What, a handful of members out of 200,000+?

No, the problem isn't with whole membership thinking there a problem here. It's with the <100 members here that do the most complaining. The ones that are yelling the loudest to make everyone think there's a problem.

I don't think the squeaky wheel gets the grease here.

The problem though is that when certain persons are targeted due to individual mod's preferences/etc. One can not tell me that there haven't been mod over-reactions and blatant misinterpretations of posts - period. THAT needs to be addressed as a consistency issue. Consistency of reactions and not having a hair trigger for certain people that individual mods don't like is what is people want to see. If I could(but it'd be posting PMs and other communications), I'd post many blatant examples of this.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
I stepped down because quite frankly this place and the people in it weren't worth the effort.

I'm going to speak really plainly here.. if that offends some opps, if I'm banned over it no
great loss as my trips here are more and more infrequent.

Anandtech has an admin who has been virtually the only hand keeping this place up and
running for over 10 years, that Admin, is a fellow human being named Harvey, this gentleman
has worked free of charge for a decade, often times putting in full time hours or more. He's been here
when it seemed the staff and these forums had been abandoned by Anand.

Comes the day when Harvey can no longer afford the luxury of working fulltime for free and he goes
hat in hand to ask Anand for a paid position... no can do but I'll bring in Derrick to run the show.

Fast forward how many years? Guess who's still here, helping the troll hunters, handling all manner of Admin tasks?
Guess who still isn't getting any sort of compensation?

And the mods, the loyal senior mods, many of whom joined this site when Anand was a teenager, who respected the young
bright, promising teenager.. who supported him? they're all still working for free too.. aside from the occasional piece of hardware
that gets promised to them but often not actually shipped till 2 yrs later.

Now if this is the extent to which the owner of this site values the admin and the staff who supported him, not just with fake back slaps
but with actual years of their time.. why on earth would anybody else here expect to be treated any better?

A new broom sweeps clean... or at least it should if you are treating outgoing staff with any dignity. The way Harvey has been treated is shameful
if Anand wanted Derek to take over because he could piggyback the forums onto Derek's regular work, he should have thanked Harvey and retired him
with a handsome parting gift... but that didn't happen did it? Derek's help only let the forums on more rocky soil than ever before as the changes to
be made got stalled in the middle.. and you can't blame Derek, he has reviews to write. So there's Harvey, hobbled, faced with the choice of abandoning these
forums, a place he's come to love and care for, a place he's devoted a chunk of his life to, or to weather the course and stay on trying to keep things running
in the wake of increasingly lengthy and frequent absences of Derek . IMHO, Harvey has been put into the most humiliating position possible, a situation that could have
been avoided if Anand had manned up, handed over all the power... and the work to Derek and retired Harvey with a nice gift, his thanks and a shred of human dignity.


Harvey and the most senior staff on this forum, helped bring this place to what it is today. Hundreds of thousands of dollars of
hardware/software move across these forums, our trading boards are among the very best and safest on the web, that didn't happen by itself
it happened as result of Harvey, his staff and the troll hunters.I am sorry to say it but say it I must, I am disappointed in Anand Shimpi and if this is
the best he can treat those who helped him along the way, if he wishes to cater to a group of people who wish to turn this place into a version of 4chan..
he should remember another old saying, " be careful what you wish for, you just might get it " and what he gets ad sponsors might not find worth paying for.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
I stepped down because quite frankly this place and the people in it weren't worth the effort.

I'm going to speak really plainly here.. if that offends some opps, if I'm banned over it no
great loss as my trips here are more and more infrequent.

Anandtech has an admin who has been virtually the only hand keeping this place up and
running for over 10 years, that Admin, is a fellow human being named Harvey, this gentleman
has worked free of charge for a decade, often times putting in full time hours or more. He's been here
when it seemed the staff and these forums had been abandoned by Anand.

Comes the day when Harvey can no longer afford the luxury of working fulltime for free and he goes
hat in hand to ask Anand for a paid position... no can do but I'll bring in Derrick to run the show.

Fast forward how many years? Guess who's still here, helping the troll hunters, handling all manner of Admin tasks?
Guess who still isn't getting any sort of compensation?

And the mods, the loyal senior mods, many of whom joined this site when Anand was a teenager, who respected the young
bright, promising teenager.. who supported him? they're all still working for free too.. aside from the occasional piece of hardware
that gets promised to them but often not actually shipped till 2 yrs later.

Now if this is the extent to which the owner of this site values the admin and the staff who supported him, not just with fake back slaps
but with actual years of their time.. why on earth would anybody else here expect to be treated any better?

A new broom sweeps clean... or at least it should if you are treating outgoing staff with any dignity. The way Harvey has been treated is shameful
if Anand wanted Derrick to take over because he could piggyback the forums onto Derrick's regular work, he should have thanked Harvey and retired him
with a handsome parting gift... but that didn't happen did it? Derrick's help only let the forums on more rocky soil than ever before as the changes to
be made got stalled in the middle.. and you can't blame Derrick, he has reviews to write.


Harvey and the most senior staff on this forum, helped bring this place to what it is today. Hundreds of thousands of dollars of
hardware/software move across these forums, our trading boards are among the very best and safest on the web, that didn't happen by itself
it happened as result of Harvey, his staff and the troll hunters.I am sorry to say it but say it I must, I am disappointed in Anand Shimpi and if this is
the best he treat those who helped him along the way, if he wishes to cater to a group of people who wish to turn this place into a version of 4chan..
be careful what you wish for, you just might get it and ad sponsors might not like the results.

I don't think anyone is or wants to take away from the efforts of the mods to build this place to what it has become, however - ignoring the problems/issues by diverting to the positives doesn't matter in this discussion IMO.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
I stepped down because quite frankly this place and the people in it weren't worth the effort.

I'm going to speak really plainly here.. if that offends some opps, if I'm banned over it no
great loss as my trips here are more and more infrequent.

Anandtech has an admin who has been virtually the only hand keeping this place up and
running for over 10 years, that Admin, is a fellow human being named Harvey, this gentleman
has worked free of charge for a decade, often times putting in full time hours or more. He's been here
when it seemed the staff and these forums had been abandoned by Anand.

Comes the day when Harvey can no longer afford the luxury of working fulltime for free and he goes
hat in hand to ask Anand for a paid position... no can do but I'll bring in Derrick to run the show.

Fast forward how many years? Guess who's still here, helping the troll hunters, handling all manner of Admin tasks?
Guess who still isn't getting any sort of compensation?

And the mods, the loyal senior mods, many of whom joined this site when Anand was a teenager, who respected the young
bright, promising teenager.. who supported him? they're all still working for free too.. aside from the occasional piece of hardware
that gets promised to them but often not actually shipped till 2 yrs later.

Now if this is the extent to which the owner of this site values the admin and the staff who supported him, not just with fake back slaps
but with actual years of their time.. why on earth would anybody else here expect to be treated any better?

A new broom sweeps clean... or at least it should if you are treating outgoing staff with any dignity. The way Harvey has been treated is shameful
if Anand wanted Derrick to take over because he could piggyback the forums onto Derrick's regular work, he should have thanked Harvey and retired him
with a handsome parting gift... but that didn't happen did it? Derrick's help only let the forums on more rocky soil than ever before as the changes to
be made got stalled in the middle.. and you can't blame Derrick, he has reviews to write.


Harvey and the most senior staff on this forum, helped bring this place to what it is today. Hundreds of thousands of dollars of
hardware/software move across these forums, our trading boards are among the very best and safest on the web, that didn't happen by itself
it happened as result of Harvey, his staff and the troll hunters.I am sorry to say it but say it I must, I am disappointed in Anand Shimpi and if this is
the best he treat those who helped him along the way, if he wishes to cater to a group of people who wish to turn this place into a version of 4chan..
be careful what you wish for, you just might get it and ad sponsors might not like the results.

I don't think anyone is or wants to take away from the efforts of the mods to build this place to what it has become, however - ignoring the problems/issues by diverting to the positives doesn't matter in this discussion IMO.

I don't think you're hearing me, if Anand has seen fit to treat Harvey in this manner what on earth makes you think you or any other
member is going to fare any better?


Anand has said many times.. and I believe him, that the forums run at a fiscal loss, however that statement does
not take into account what the existence of these forums has garnered him in his private business dealings and contracts.
Now, after years of neglect,of leaving Harvey and staff twisting in the wind leaderless and without support suddenly we're all about
caring about the membership and what the members want, for totally altruistic reasons?

 

[olds]

Fuck the problems and issues. This is a god damned internet forum and if people are so pussified that they get their panties in a bunch over something that happens on a forum, then they have deeper and more serious issues than this place is set up to deal with.
But maybe I can still help:
How to grow up
How to get a life
How to stop being a narcissistic
Narcissistic, part 2

It is seriously embarrassing to belong to the same species as some of you worthless crybabies.

 

[MotionMan]

Ironical posts are ironic.

MotionMan

 

[MotionMan]

Geekbabe,

I do not dispute one thing you said and I can understand why you would be frustrated.

What you expressed does not disprove or excuse the fact that the moderation team has enforced the rules of this forum (written and otherwise) unevenly which is the basis for almost all of the complaints expressed in this section.

What you said also does not justify members of the moderation team treating members like crap because the moderators have been treated like crap. As we teach our children, two wrongs do not make a right. Or, to put it in a more grown up fashion, being an abused child does not justify being an abuser as an adult.

It is an unfortunate situation but a better solution than having the moderation team take their frustrations out on the membership is for the moderation team to pull together and run this place in a manner that they (and we all) can be proud of.

MotionMan

 

[Agentbolt]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
I stepped down because quite frankly this place and the people in it weren't worth the effort.

I'm going to speak really plainly here.. if that offends some opps, if I'm banned over it no
great loss as my trips here are more and more infrequent.

Anandtech has an admin who has been virtually the only hand keeping this place up and
running for over 10 years, that Admin, is a fellow human being named Harvey, this gentleman
has worked free of charge for a decade, often times putting in full time hours or more. He's been here
when it seemed the staff and these forums had been abandoned by Anand.

Comes the day when Harvey can no longer afford the luxury of working fulltime for free and he goes
hat in hand to ask Anand for a paid position... no can do but I'll bring in Derrick to run the show.

Fast forward how many years? Guess who's still here, helping the troll hunters, handling all manner of Admin tasks?
Guess who still isn't getting any sort of compensation?

And the mods, the loyal senior mods, many of whom joined this site when Anand was a teenager, who respected the young
bright, promising teenager.. who supported him? they're all still working for free too.. aside from the occasional piece of hardware
that gets promised to them but often not actually shipped till 2 yrs later.

Now if this is the extent to which the owner of this site values the admin and the staff who supported him, not just with fake back slaps
but with actual years of their time.. why on earth would anybody else here expect to be treated any better?

A new broom sweeps clean... or at least it should if you are treating outgoing staff with any dignity. The way Harvey has been treated is shameful
if Anand wanted Derrick to take over because he could piggyback the forums onto Derrick's regular work, he should have thanked Harvey and retired him
with a handsome parting gift... but that didn't happen did it? Derrick's help only let the forums on more rocky soil than ever before as the changes to
be made got stalled in the middle.. and you can't blame Derrick, he has reviews to write.


Harvey and the most senior staff on this forum, helped bring this place to what it is today. Hundreds of thousands of dollars of
hardware/software move across these forums, our trading boards are among the very best and safest on the web, that didn't happen by itself
it happened as result of Harvey, his staff and the troll hunters.I am sorry to say it but say it I must, I am disappointed in Anand Shimpi and if this is
the best he treat those who helped him along the way, if he wishes to cater to a group of people who wish to turn this place into a version of 4chan..
be careful what you wish for, you just might get it and ad sponsors might not like the results.

I don't think anyone is or wants to take away from the efforts of the mods to build this place to what it has become, however - ignoring the problems/issues by diverting to the positives doesn't matter in this discussion IMO.

I don't think you're hearing me, if Anand has seen fit to treat Harvey in this manner what on earth makes you think you or any other
member is going to fare any better?


Anand has said many times.. and I believe him, that the forums run at a fiscal loss, however that statement does
not take into account what the existence of these forums has garnered him in his private business dealings and contracts.
Now, after years of neglect,of leaving Harvey and staff twisting in the wind leaderless and without support suddenly we're all about
caring about the membership and what the members want, for totally altruistic reasons?

If Harvey's been treated THAT badly, any sane person would've quit a long time ago. Your making it sound like Anand personally whips him with wet leather straps every day. It's a goddamned Internet forum, if it's that bad Harvey can retire. The place isn't going to fall apart without his l33t moderating skillz. The "if you don't like modding you can stop modding here" argument is just as stupid and flawed as the "if you don't like posting, stop posting here" one, so I'm not saying that, but again, it's an internet forum. It's not worth getting upset about anything that happens here.

Harvey's name pops up in PFI more than any two other mods combined, it seems. Really outrageous stuff. How do I define outrageous? The official answer is Harvey saying "fuck you crybaby" and then another senior mod saying "take it up with Derek" and then locking/deleting the thread.

I've never personally run afoul of him, probably because I don't post all that often, but any conversation about mod inconsistency has to at least bring him up as a point of discussion. I'm definitely sorry Geekbabe's so upset about how this "situation" with Harvey's been handled, but that post screams hyperbole and biased point of view, GB.

And also, Olds, look I like you man. Your replies to most stuff are concise and thoughtful. But have you EVER, even once, had a bad word to say about the moderation here or the way the site is run? Either you think the site/moderation is perfect in every way, or you're determined to toe the line as a former mod or whatever. In either case, great, we get it. Usually when someone says something retarded, your reply is an instant ace that shuts them up, but the "I'm going to ignore whatever you just said about the mods, call you a name, and suggest you get a life" song and dance isn't impressing anyone anymore.

Finally, and most importantly, Derek's continued silence in this thread is deafening.