It's done- Healthcare bill passes

[Narmer]

I don't wanna pay for someone else's kid to go to school and waste my money because school is "free". I also don't want to pay for the police officer to break up the domestic disturbance of my white-trash neighbor. I don't give a shit about any of them.

And I don't want to pay for foreign wars I do not support. I don't want to pay for bank bailouts or taxbreaks. I don't want to pay for defense costs that cost too much. I don't want to pay for the space program. I don't want to subsidize farmers. Whaa!!! Whaa!!!

 

[Hacp]

And I don't want to pay for foreign wars I do not support. I don't want to pay for bank bailouts or taxbreaks. I don't want to pay for defense costs that cost too much. I don't want to pay for the space program. I don't want to subsidize farmers. Whaa!!! Whaa!!!

No one does. No one should pay for that stuff. Less government, more freedom.

 

[Carmen813]

Only in the mind of the left does one's earnings and property belong to someone else...

My question to you is, are you against all forms of insurance? Because that's pretty much what insurance does.

My feelings on this matter are pretty simple. No matter what, pretty much everyone will eventually get sick. 1/3 of women and 2/3 of men get cancer. Even if I had paid premiums my entire life, it would not have covered even half the cost of my cancer treatment. Thus I owe my life to the generosity and hard work of others.

The chances of any individual going their entire life without facing a serious illness are pretty much zero. That is just the way life works. And so, I have no problem helping out others. I felt this way before I became sick, and I feel this way now.

If you are one of the lucky few who could afford all your own medical costs, even for something catastrophic like cancer, than yeah, I can understand why you are upset.

My challenge to you would be to think about the people who are disabled or become sick, because the vast majority of them are people who worked hard. I don't believe becoming sick, even if it's due to your own choices, should mean that your entire life is forfeit because you become an economic drain.

 

[nonlnear]

And I don't want to pay for foreign wars I do not support. I don't want to pay for bank bailouts or taxbreaks. I don't want to pay for defense costs that cost too much. I don't want to pay for the space program. I don't want to subsidize farmers. Whaa!!! Whaa!!!

Are you saying that Democrats favor a system of optional war funding? Sign me up and I'll hand in my Libertarian card for a sexy donkey today!

 

[MiniDoom]

when medical costs have skyrocketed to the point where anything above and beyond routine care could drive the average person into bankruptcy, what choice is there, really?

I wouldn't really mind uhc if we were a nation of health nuts, but sadly we are not and it will only get worse. Obesity, diabetes and heart conditions will end up bankrupting our country. I would much rather see the money spent building more paths, bike lanes and encouraging good heath and physical activities.

 

[Hacp]

My question to you is, are you against all forms of insurance? Because that's pretty much what insurance does.

Its not insurance people don't like. Its the government handout. People pay for insurance with their own money.Its their choice. What people don't like is the government taking taxpayer dollars, then using it to gift free health insurance to the undeserving.

My challenge to you would be to think about the people who are disabled or become sick, because the vast majority of them are people who worked hard. I don't believe becoming sick, even if it's due to your own choices, should mean that your entire life is forfeit because you become an economic drain.

Touch luck to them. If we worried about every special case and gave everyone who had a hard life entitlements, we would go bankrupt as a nation. Oops we already are!

 

[Narmer]

No one does. No one should pay for that stuff. Less government, more freedom.

And less progress, in some cases.

 

[nonlnear]

And less progress, in some cases.

What IS "progress"? I keep hearing this word bandied about, but many of the people who love it so much can't even define it.

 

[2Xtreme21]

And less progress, in all cases.

Fixed. Once again, the Republicans are on the wrong side of history.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

What IS "progress"? I keep hearing this word bandied about, but many of the people who love it so much can't even define it.

Apparently, progress is whatever Pelosi and Reid say it is.

 

[Hacp]

Fixed. Once again, the Republicans are on the wrong side of history.

Progress? If you define progress as slowly losing our lead to China and India, then ya sure it means less progress.

 

[Carmen813]

Its not insurance people don't like. Its the government handout. People pay for insurance with their own money.Its their choice. What people don't like is the government taking taxpayer dollars, then using it to gift free health insurance to the undeserving.


Touch luck to them. If we worried about every special case and gave everyone who had a hard life entitlements, we would go bankrupt as a nation. Oops we already are!

And if you are never given the choice to pay for insurance? What then?

As for your second paragraph, I suspect you would be singing a different tune if it was you or someone you cared about. I'd be careful about throwing around the world "undeserving" because you might someday find out it's you.

 

[JeepinEd]

What IS "progress"? I keep hearing this word bandied about, but many of the people who love it so much can't even define it.

Progress, to the current liberal mindset is making it so that you are no longer born free. Your are now born into the partial servitude of the health insurance companies. There is no longer a choice.

 

[Acanthus]

Fear loses.

I'm laughing all the way to the doctor! (pre-existing) (In 2014 )

 

[nonlnear]

Progress, to the current liberal mindset is making it so that you are no longer born free. Your are now born into the partial servitude of the health insurance companies. There is no longer a choice.

If you keep saying things like that you might be accused of using a straw man. Never mind the people making that complaint will never oblige me and give the "true" definition...

 

[Throckmorton]

Progress, to the current liberal mindset is making it so that you are no longer born free. Your are now born into the partial servitude of the health insurance companies. There is no longer a choice.

You folks should have thought of that before demonizing single payer insurance and then public option.

 

[JeepinEd]

You folks should have thought of that before demonizing single payer insurance and then public option.

Us folks did no such thing, as I am an individual and not part of a collective.

I wouldn't mind a well designed public option.

 

[werepossum]

A prediction: As the details of the legislation become more broadly understood, it will gain increasing support from the public. The Republicans are going to increasingly be seen as the liars, obstructionists, and demagogues they actually are, and their lock-step opposition to the bill is going to become the rotting albatross about their necks they so richly deserve.

I think just the reverse will happen. A huge amount of people think Obamacare is free health care and they don't know about penalties, fines, IRS, cost of plans etc

Wait til the 21% medicare cuts start soon (or the date gets dodged and the deficit roars) and seniors are iced out of health-care.

Of course Slim wants amnesty for his new voters and to get illegals on HC - as MD's will be retiring. It's a nightmare actually.

It's going to be very interesting after the Pubbies are ushered in come November. Two thirds of this country want this abortion of a bill revoked, but I'm betting there will be no majority consensus on how to replace it. You'll have some people wanting it repealed and not replaced with anything, whereas others want parts repealed - but won't agree on which parts. Plus a lot of the opposition is against the obscenely underhanded way the Dems have passed this rather than the actual features of the bill, which will fade, and the Dems are already working on the "fixes" to the bill, plus Obama has promised Stupak an executive order restoring the prohibitions on federal funding of abortion. And finally, the Republicans almost certainly won't have a super majority to override Obama's veto. With all that together, I predict a lot of noise with some very visible but probably minor changes under the Republican Congress. We'll ride under that until the private health insurance companies fold and single payer is ushered in.

 

[nageov3t]

you don't really think the republicans are going to gain majorities, do you?

they'd have to practically sweep the table and win in places like California.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Are you saying that Democrats favor a system of optional war funding? Sign me up and I'll hand in my Libertarian card for a sexy donkey today!

Quote of the Day


Could we have a check box on the Census form?




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[theeedude]

It's going to be very interesting after the Pubbies are ushered in come November. Two thirds of this country want this abortion of a bill revoked, but I'm betting there will be no majority consensus on how to replace it. You'll have some people wanting it repealed and not replaced with anything, whereas others want parts repealed - but won't agree on which parts. Plus a lot of the opposition is against the obscenely underhanded way the Dems have passed this rather than the actual features of the bill, which will fade, and the Dems are already working on the "fixes" to the bill, plus Obama has promised Stupak an executive order restoring the prohibitions on federal funding of abortion. And finally, the Republicans almost certainly won't have a super majority to override Obama's veto. With all that together, I predict a lot of noise with some very visible but probably minor changes under the Republican Congress. We'll ride under that until the private health insurance companies fold and single payer is ushered in.

That's a big problem for GOP, their base is riled up and wants the whole bill repealed, but moderates are going to be like, hey, I kinda like the no rescission and no pre-existing conditions discrimination, etc. GOP will either have acknowledge parts of this bill were good and keep them, or they will risk losing moderates again, and remaining a minority party of uncompromising tea baggers.

 

[Craig234]

And less progress, in some cases.

I look at progress as advancing the well being of the human race - freedom, prosperity - which includes reducing some groups from taking advantage of others.

That might mean something like the right of the workers to organize, increasing their standard of living and rights changing them from serfs to a 'middle class'; it might mean the protection of equal rights from the targets of discrimination (race, gender, sexual orientation) from bigotry.

It means furthering the political system to support these goals, reducing 'corruption', better implementing things like democracy and an informed public.

The internet is a step forward; the propaganda think tanks like AEI/Cato/Heritage who serve the special interests to get the public to support bad policies are a step the wrong direction.

Sometimes, they're mixed; Medicare Part D was a step forward for some seniors getting a benefit, and a step backward for the corrupt politics and drug profit inflation.

A few key advances to illustrate the point were the forming of our nation based on democracy and individual rights, the ending of the law against criticizing the government under Adams, the end of slavery, legalizing the workers' rights to organize, the right to vote being added to women, Social Security and MMedicare, the end of legal segregation, the freedom of information act (furthering an informed poplace), the creation of the internet (also furthering the informed populace).

But we still have a largely ignorant populace, with a massive propaganda infrastructure both intended and not, a system allowing money to greatly determine who is in power, we're only just getting around to ending discrimination against groups like gays (jail abolished in 2003, marriage equality in the early steps, military integration within a year).

On a global level, I'm more concerned as the US as a champion for progressive values (individual rights) aganst more oppressive systems is losing some influence. This is both from bad policies at times and from economic irresonsibility, since economic power affects cultural influence. On the other hand, it's an advance that Latin America is more independant and without the US backing the death squads and similar forces for power.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Pease explain why these selfless public servants exempted some jurisdictions from this cut?

My understanding is that standard Medicare reimbursements vary by jurisdiction (by county or metro area?) to a 'prevailing rate'.

In some jurisdictions across the country the prevailing rate paid by medicare is substantially beyond the average difference in payments from that of Medicare Advantage. In those jurisdictions prior to 2020 the Medicare Advantage 'subsidy' will be rolled back more slowly to equalization with that of conventional medicare.

It seems that Karl Rove started a bullshit campaign the end of last year about special deals cut in the Senate on Medicare Advantage that cost "tens of billions of dollars!". Imagine that ....

IIRC he put it all on Nelson from Florida, when in fact the reimbursement formula had been determined 2 or 3 months earlier. Nelson had wanted $40-50 billion less in cuts to Medicare Advantage because of all the old people in Florida and was told, "No." They then developed a formula for a less abrupt transition in a handful of jurisdictions in maybe 6 or 7 states with the ultimate 'cost' of $5 billion (I think). Several of those jurisdictions are in Florida, of course - LOL

That's why that republican representative got up last night and raised Hell.

"It was a conspiracy! It was a conspiracy!"


Yup. And we are living in a socialist utopia, right?





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[Lemon law]

werepossin states, "Two thirds of this country want this abortion of a bill revoked."

And I challenge werepossim to give us an iota of evidence that this statistic is anything but a made up number.

It may be a previous number from Republican fear mongering, but now that we have an actual bill and the American people come up to speed on the actual provisions, having an actual poll is only now possible.

I agree with senseamp, and when actual unbiased scientific polling is done, my guess is the American people will approve of the bill with a 70%+ plurality.

 

[werepossum]

werepossin states, "Two thirds of this country want this abortion of a bill revoked."

And I challenge werepossim to give us an iota of evidence that this statistic is anything but a made up number.

It may be a previous number from Republican fear mongering, but now that we have an actual bill and the American people come up to speed on the actual provisions, having an actual poll is only now possible.

I agree with senseamp, and when actual unbiased scientific polling is done, my guess is the American people will approve of the bill with a 70%+ plurality.

Polls last week showed 2/3 of the electorate against the bill, yet you somehow have confidence that the margins will reverse simply because the bill is now law? Nothing has changed except that what the public hates has now been forced on them, but somehow you think that will make us like it - that the problem was the bill wasn't "actual" enough.

Any valid reason to believe that? Any evidence to believe that the previous polling wasn't "scientific" other than that the majority of Americans disagreed with you? After all, I'm merely predicting that current conditions will continue; you're predicting that an additional third of Americans will suddenly find government's boot as comfy on their collective neck as you apparently find it. The media (FoxNews of course being the exception) has been beating this drum on behalf of Obama and the Dems for many months; why would you now assume their message would gain traction?