Key anti-smoking treaty adopted

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,059
18,428
146
So much for freedom.

Had they been interested in education and awareness campaigns, I'd support them. But it seems they are more interested in authoritarian policy.
 

Fencer128

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,700
1
91
Originally posted by: Amused
So much for freedom.

Had they been interested in education and awareness campaigns, I'd support them. But it seems they are more interested in authoritarian policy.

Education and awreness of what exactly? I've not met many people who didn't think that their smoking would kill them. Isn't putting graphic warnings on cigarette packets a form of education as well?

Cheers,

Andy
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,389
8,547
126
At least one third of the space on cigarette packets will have to be devoted to health warnings, including pictures of diseased lungs.
gross!
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
No next up banned.

I never smoked (well two hits as a teen) but this is terrible like outlawing drugs was.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,112
1
0
Pictures of diseased lungs? Bah....you could name the cigarettes Smoking These Will Kill You and people would still suck them down like a newborn going after a nipple. Why exactly are we trying to legislate if people can smoke or not? Seems that if they want to smoke the damn things and kill themselves then we should let them...more power to them. What's next? I suppose we should mandate that everyone have those colorful rubber flowers on the floor of their bathtubs so that they don't slip and kill themselves. Why stop there? Why not legislate that nobody can own knives or scissors anymore? Far more people, especially kids, are injured by those daily that they are with a gun. That's it...we should make it so that if you have anything that requires being cut that a special crack team of government agents is sent to your house to snip or cut whatever it is you have that requires an edged tool. After all we can take a risk of anyone anywhere ever doing anything that might somehow cause them to hurt themselves.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Hey, damn bureaucrats gotta do something with the money they steal from us, eh? :disgust:
 

GRagland

Senior member
Oct 7, 2002
677
0
0
ciggaretts are absolutely pointless, they is no reason to smoke them! at least when you smoke maurajuana you get high, but as much as i think ciggaretts are stupid, i dont think they should be banned. but i agree there should be huge advertising restrictions.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
Originally posted by: Amused
So much for freedom.

Had they been interested in education and awareness campaigns, I'd support them. But it seems they are more interested in authoritarian policy.

Did you bother finding out more about the treaty, or is this just one of your canned "evil socialists are taking away our freedoms" responces?

The report I saw on this said that the treaty is about setting controls on tobacco, such as ones that are already in place in north america. For example, having inappropriate ads, mainly those targetted towards kids in countries with lax rules, would be outlawed. Also things like having models hand out free cigs to kids at concerts would be stopped.



 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
I am upset because of this.

I see smoking as planned obsolesence... I mean; anyone can live to 85 but it takes a real man to die at 65 of lung cancer.
My little gramma smoked Pall Mall unfiltered and about 2 packs a day for as long as she was in the US and some kind of stronger stuff in Ireland starting at a young age... She lived to 86. I smoke (not around people) (or my puppy) but I smoke camel unfiltered and have since I was 13 thats about forever. I don't smoke much nowadays because of the cost and will quit in time. I don't need all the advertising about smoking. It ain't the smoking that kills ya anyhow it is the bullets and bombs that do that. I want labels on all bombs, bullets, rockets, and military uniforms that states "I am harmfull to your health" !

Also on McDonald's stuff... I want a label that warns against mad cow disease and on cars and on butter and on milk and on and on and on and on.
 

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
13,126
1
0
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: Amused
So much for freedom.

Had they been interested in education and awareness campaigns, I'd support them. But it seems they are more interested in authoritarian policy.

Did you bother finding out more about the treaty, or is this just one of your canned "evil socialists are taking away our freedoms" responces?

The report I saw on this said that the treaty is about setting controls on tobacco, such as ones that are already in place in north america. For example, having inappropriate ads, mainly those targetted towards kids in countries with lax rules, would be outlawed. Also things like having models hand out free cigs to kids at concerts would be stopped.



Despite your inferences to the countrary, I find it difficult to believe that you have actually read it. It's not about dissalowing advertisements towards children. It completely disallows tobacco advertising. It forces states to increase tobacco tax. It's eventual goal is a complete ban of cigarettes-not by education, but by force. Something that smokers are notoriously adverse to complying because of. Everyone knows that you need to quit for YOU, not because some schmuck told you to. This is terrible policy. As one man on the bbc forum said... "Is it really right to refuse people their freedom of choice? "

Quote from it:

The FCTC requires all Parties to undertake a comprehensive ban on tobacco advertising, promotion and sponsorship within five years of ratifying the treaty. The ban must include cross-border advertising originating within a Party's territory. The definitions of advertising, promotion and sponsorship are broad and include indirect as well as direct forms. Countries with constitutional constraints are required to restrict advertising, promotion and sponsorship, including cross-border advertising, in a manner consistent with their constitutional principles. The Parties also agree to consider a protocol to elaborate on the cross-border provisions, for example the technical and legal aspects of preventing or blocking advertising on the internet and satellite television.



Complete ban on it unless your constitution says otherwise, AND mandates censorship even in the case of a satellite channel originating from another country who isnt a member. The way to fix the problem of cigarettes being given to children is to clamp down on those giving the kids cigarettes, not draconionally ban all advertisements and promotions. Besides, that certainly isnt a problem here in the states. A


Other disturbing passages from this treaty:

Deceptive labels must be prohibited. Countries agree to prohibit misleading or deceptive terms on tobacco product packages within three years of becoming a Party. Research has proved that cigarettes that are labeled ?light?, ?low tar?, and ?mild? (among other terms) are as dangerous as those denoted as regular and thus these terms mislead and deceive consumers about the risks involved in the use of these products. Although the treaty does not specify the terms that Parties should ban, the scientific evidence would certainly support banning the use of terms such as ?light?, ?mild?, ?low tar?, etc.


Bullsh*t. I smoke "light" cigarettes because the taste is lighter. They have the same warning labels that "regular" cigarettes do. This is the first step towards banning tobacco altogether, which the powers that be would love.


Nonsmokers must be protected in workplaces, public transport and indoor public places. The treaty recognizes that exposure to tobacco smoke has been scientifically proven to cause death, disease and disability. It requires all Parties to implement effective measures to protect nonsmokers from tobacco smoke in public places, including workplaces, public transport and indoor public places -- evidence indicates that only a total smoking ban is effective in protecting non-smokers.


Bullsh*t. At our workplace we have a dedicated smoking room in the back part of the building that is completely ventilated from a system seperate from the rest of the building. It affects NO ONE who is not a smoker.

Furthermore, the language in the treaty clearly promotes a path towards outlawing smoking anywhere in public, including walking down the street or sitting on your porch. Note the bolded words.

Action is required to eliminate tobacco smuggling. Measures required include marking all tobacco packages in a way that signifies the origin and final destination or the legal status of the product, and cooperating with one-another in anti-smuggling, law enforcement and litigation efforts.


You can be goddamm sure that if they stop my cheap smokes from switzerland, and try to force me to pay $40 a carton that I will NOT be getting my cigarettes from legal or commercial channels. You think the war on drugs is bad? Try artificially (and astronomically) raising cigarette prices, clamping down on smokers, and attempting to force them to buy at retail prices. Then we'd have a war on cigarettes, complete with smoke-easy's. Think that's improbable? That road has already been half-paved by the following:

Taxation & Duty Free Sales (Article 6)

Tobacco tax increases are encouraged. The treaty states that ?each Party should take account of its national health objectives concerning tobacco control? in its tobacco tax and price policies. The treaty recognizes that raising prices through tax increases and other means ?is an effective and important means of reducing tobacco consumption by various segments of the population, in particular young persons.?

Duty-free sales are discouraged. Parties may prohibit or restrict duty-free sales of tobacco products.






Liability (Articles 4.5 and 19)

Legal action is encouraged as a tobacco control strategy. The treaty recognizes that liability issues are an important part of a comprehensive tobacco control program and the Parties agree to consider legislative and litigation approaches to advance tobacco control objectives. Parties also agree to cooperate with one another in tobacco-related legal proceedings.


They are REQUIRING states to cooperate and participate in lawsuits against manufacturers! :|




link: http://www.fctc.org/highlightsEN.shtml




WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND THE FTC NOW!!! AND DEMAND THAT THIS TREATY NOT BE RATIFIED.

 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,059
18,428
146
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: Amused
So much for freedom.

Had they been interested in education and awareness campaigns, I'd support them. But it seems they are more interested in authoritarian policy.

Did you bother finding out more about the treaty, or is this just one of your canned "evil socialists are taking away our freedoms" responces?

The report I saw on this said that the treaty is about setting controls on tobacco, such as ones that are already in place in north america. For example, having inappropriate ads, mainly those targetted towards kids in countries with lax rules, would be outlawed. Also things like having models hand out free cigs to kids at concerts would be stopped.

Marty, I DID read it. Controls on advertising beyond truth in advertising laws (enforced by civil suit) are simply wrong, and pointless. The Joe Camel hysteria was a joke. No matter how they advertise, they will be accused of targeting kids.

Lucky pretty much sums it up in his post. So I wont repeat any of it.

My reactions to things are not 'canned" Marty.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
If you do not start smoking by the time you are 18, there is a 95% chance you never will, who do you think they target in their advertising?

Lucky, american companies are now praying on parts of the world where the laws are much weaker.

Ban them already, it is not a natural product so they belong under the umbrella of the FDA.
Let's remove the .one and only product from the market that if used in the manner intended, will kill you
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,059
18,428
146
Originally posted by: Alistar7
If you do not start smoking by the time you are 18, there is a 95% chance you never will, who do you think they target in their advertising?

Lucky, american companies are now praying on parts of the world where the laws are much weaker.

Ban them already, it is not a natural product so they belong under the umbrella of the FDA.
Let's remove the .one and only product from the market that if used in the manner intended, will kill you

Yeah. It worked with drugs, right?



Ban cigarettes and you'll have a war that makes the war on drugs look like a boy scout jamboree.

When will we learn that you cannot mother the population into taking care of itself with restrictive, nanny-state laws?
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Alistar7
If you do not start smoking by the time you are 18, there is a 95% chance you never will, who do you think they target in their advertising?

Lucky, american companies are now praying on parts of the world where the laws are much weaker.

Ban them already, it is not a natural product so they belong under the umbrella of the FDA.
Let's remove the .one and only product from the market that if used in the manner intended, will kill you

Yeah. It worked with drugs, right?



Ban cigarettes and you'll have a war that makes the war on drugs look like a boy scout jamboree.

When will we learn that you cannot mother the population into taking care of itself with restrictive, nanny-state laws?
would you want the current topaco companies to start making drugs and selling them?

 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,059
18,428
146
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Alistar7
If you do not start smoking by the time you are 18, there is a 95% chance you never will, who do you think they target in their advertising?

Lucky, american companies are now praying on parts of the world where the laws are much weaker.

Ban them already, it is not a natural product so they belong under the umbrella of the FDA.
Let's remove the .one and only product from the market that if used in the manner intended, will kill you

Yeah. It worked with drugs, right?



Ban cigarettes and you'll have a war that makes the war on drugs look like a boy scout jamboree.

When will we learn that you cannot mother the population into taking care of itself with restrictive, nanny-state laws?
would you want the current topaco companies to start making drugs and selling them?

IF drugs are legalized, why not? Someone is going to. And no matter who does it, their primary purpose is going to be making money. Not soothing the moral outrage of the self styled (s)mothers of the world.

The fact of the matter is, if kids are smoking, doing drugs, drinking, fscking or stealing, it is the PARENT'S fault. Not the company's, not the government's, not society's fault... It's the parent's fault. We are bombarded with advertising for tens of thousands of products. We must have PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY over what we decide to buy, and not buy.

You cannot childproof the world. You MUST world proof your child.

It's time to stop blaming everyone and everything else for our shortcomings as people, and parents.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
legalize hemp and let the tobacco companies and farmers grow that, they will make just as much money and have a far better product, non lethal, and not a drug.

Prohibition of drugs and alcohol will not work, tobacco is a different story.

You get no pleasure out of tobacco, people are not going to risk much to continue using it. What are they supposed to do during working hours, run home and roll up a cig forthat nic fit?
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
you can't legalize drugs. You will put the drug dealers and gangs out of business, they won't even have money to buy guns anymore, if yopu controlled the sale at Govt. stores as they did with alcohol for years you wouldn't have kids being able to buy them or deal them anymore, all you would have is more money coming in from the taxation of the legal sales than you could ever spend.

Would you like to see the income tax finally eliminated for good? It is only temporary anyway, but it looks like the Civil War may never end at this rate....
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,059
18,428
146
Originally posted by: Alistar7
legalize hemp and let the tobacco companies and farmers grow that, they will make just as much money and have a far better product, non lethal, and not a drug.

Prohibition of drugs and alcohol will not work, tobacco is a different story.

You get no pleasure out of tobacco, people are not going to risk much to continue using it. What are they supposed to do during working hours, run home and roll up a cig forthat nic fit?

Nicotine is one of the most addictive drugs known to man. It has direct effects on the brain's ability to experience pleasure. To say a ban on tobacco wont go over like the bans on alcohol and tobacco is to ignore what happened in Canada when they raised their taxes on cigarettes to all time highs a few years back (they saw a huge increase in illegal cigarette imports and sales).

People will risk quite a bit to smoke, trust me.

BTW, most anything is lethal when used to excess. And even still, less than 1/3 of smokers ever suffer from smoking related diseases. So stop with the "lethal product" hysteria, OK?
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
it is noy hysteria, it is fact, there is no other product on the market that if used in the manner intended, not abused as you suggest, will kill you.

Of course Canada had that problem, cheap cigs right at an open border, what if there were none in America, that would not have happened.

People will not risk prison time for a cig, I am a smoker, I would not and don't know any that would.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,112
1
0
Originally posted by: Alistar7
it is noy hysteria, it is fact, there is no other product on the market that if used in the manner intended, not abused as you suggest, will kill you.

Of course Canada had that problem, cheap cigs right at an open border, what if there were none in America, that would not have happened.

People will not risk prison time for a cig, I am a smoker, I would not and don't know any that would.
Actually Tylenol will kill you if you use it in the manner intended over a long term period. Destroys your liver. Same is true of sodas. Drink enough Pepsi, Coke, Mt. Dew, etc...and your liver will just call it quits.

 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: Alistar7
it is noy hysteria, it is fact, there is no other product on the market that if used in the manner intended, not abused as you suggest, will kill you.

Of course Canada had that problem, cheap cigs right at an open border, what if there were none in America, that would not have happened.

People will not risk prison time for a cig, I am a smoker, I would not and don't know any that would.
Actually Tylenol will kill you if you use it in the manner intended over a long term period. Destroys your liver. Same is true of sodas. Drink enough Pepsi, Coke, Mt. Dew, etc...and your liver will just call it quits.

Silly me thought Tylenol was to relieve temporary pain, I did not realize the intended use was to take it every day. Yes there is a national health care crisis over pepsi induced death, lol.

What are the benefits of smoking?
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Gaard's opinion follows:

Smoking is bad. Period. Why people say otherwise I'll never understand.
"Hey, it's not that bad." Please.


However (and this part comes after listening to A1 for many moons), to ban smoking or outlaw their manufacture is also bad.

Worse? If you're concerned with your right to smoke more than you are with the badness(<--- couldn't think of the word I wanted) of smoking, than I guess it would be worse.

Smoking is bad. To ban smoking would be bad. What's the solution? Live on an island and make your own laws?

If the majority of the population elects our president, why can't the majority decide if smoking is lawful? Why is wearing a helmet when riding a cycle mandatory? Why are seatbelts mandatory?
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
81
Originally posted by: ElFenix
At least one third of the space on cigarette packets will have to be devoted to health warnings, including pictures of diseased lungs.
gross!

Back when I was smoking, there was a pack of cigarettes in an all black box with a skull and cross bones on them..The brand was "Death", I think they were fairly popular for awhile until people realized that it was overpriced and a weak cigarette.
 
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