Kosovo Statehood

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: GrGr

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: GrGr

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Break international law?

You can't break that which has always been broken.

So if you murder someone it isn't murder if someone murdered before you did because they broke the law first... :roll:

Murder? OMG! Well I guess your overtly emotional argument trumps the fact that countries adhere to international law when it's convenient and ignore it when it's not.

:roll:

No this is your faulty logic and projected emotionalism at work again. Unlike you I don't support law breaking on my behalf. Especially when it comes to war crimes which means murder, rape, torture of innocents in your name.

Your mistake is assuming that stating a fact equals support of that fact. It's a common mistake in P&N. For those that tend to rely on emotional arguments it's understandable though. Apparently they can't see very far beyond that emotion and the associated knee jerks that drive them.

 

[daniel49]

I have no opposition to thier independence, but sometimes wonder at the intelligence of it.

one could probably end up with tiny ethnic groups all over the world forming thier own countries with no ability to defend or provide for themselves.
Assume for a minute if each of the fifty states became its own country. some would be weak, poor, without rescources, while others would be quite well off.

Our strength as a country comes from our ability to set aside our differences for the common good and provide a strong democratic united people. Where different factions have a right to be heard and represented.

I put forth that although it seems impossible for that setting aside of differences to take place in some parts of the world. If they could do that they as a people and a country would be much better off.

just my 2 cents worth.

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: GrGr

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: GrGr

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Break international law?

You can't break that which has always been broken.

So if you murder someone it isn't murder if someone murdered before you did because they broke the law first... :roll:

Murder? OMG! Well I guess your overtly emotional argument trumps the fact that countries adhere to international law when it's convenient and ignore it when it's not.

:roll:

No this is your faulty logic and projected emotionalism at work again. Unlike you I don't support law breaking on my behalf. Especially when it comes to war crimes which means murder, rape, torture of innocents in your name.

Your mistake is assuming that stating a fact equals support of that fact. It's a common mistake in P&N. For those that tend to rely on emotional arguments it's understandable though. Apparently they can't see very far beyond that emotion and the associated knee jerks that drive them.

Fact. You support the illegal invasion of Iraq. You cannot both support the illegal invasion and the subsequent war crimes, and international law at the same time.

 

[Colt45]

The american equivalent of this would be:

armed mexican terrorists (funded through drug smuggling) start attacking californian police officers.
US sends in the army
"NATO" bombs all of the US to "stop genocide" which never occured.
California is placed under the control of UN. Many of the remaining americans flee. UN resolution is formed that says american borders will NOT be changed.
10 years pass - during this time many "american" structures are destroyed... more americans flee. Unemployment is ubiquitous. "NATO" sets up a large base in California.
Former mexican terrorists are now seen as legitimate politicians, and claim independence with support of EU.


Do you see how fucked this is? Except the mexicans have more claim to california than albanians do to kosovo. Kosovo has been serbian since the dawn of time.

 

[Braznor]

Originally posted by: daniel49
I have no opposition to thier independence, but sometimes wonder at the intelligence of it.

one could probably end up with tiny ethnic groups all over the world forming thier own countries with no ability to defend or provide for themselves.
Assume for a minute if each of the fifty states became its own country. some would be weak, poor, without rescources, while others would be quite well off.

Our strength as a country comes from our ability to set aside our differences for the common good and provide a strong democratic united people. Where different factions have a right to be heard and represented.

I put forth that although it seems impossible for that setting aside of differences to take place in some parts of the world. If they could do that they as a people and a country would be much better off.

just my 2 cents worth.

QFT, its why I love my own nation inspite all its faults.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: GrGr

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: GrGr

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: GrGr

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Break international law?

You can't break that which has always been broken.

So if you murder someone it isn't murder if someone murdered before you did because they broke the law first... :roll:

Murder? OMG! Well I guess your overtly emotional argument trumps the fact that countries adhere to international law when it's convenient and ignore it when it's not.

:roll:

No this is your faulty logic and projected emotionalism at work again. Unlike you I don't support law breaking on my behalf. Especially when it comes to war crimes which means murder, rape, torture of innocents in your name.

Your mistake is assuming that stating a fact equals support of that fact. It's a common mistake in P&N. For those that tend to rely on emotional arguments it's understandable though. Apparently they can't see very far beyond that emotion and the associated knee jerks that drive them.

Fact. You support the illegal invasion of Iraq. You cannot both support the illegal invasion and the subsequent war crimes, and international law at the same time.

Fact. I also support vigilante justice when the law doesn't do the right thing because a few on the side of "the law" interfere with justice being served. imo, Iraq was vigilante justice, was the right thing to do, and still is the right thing to do despite all the difficulties encountered.

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: GrGr

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: GrGr

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: GrGr

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Break international law?

You can't break that which has always been broken.

So if you murder someone it isn't murder if someone murdered before you did because they broke the law first... :roll:

Murder? OMG! Well I guess your overtly emotional argument trumps the fact that countries adhere to international law when it's convenient and ignore it when it's not.

:roll:

No this is your faulty logic and projected emotionalism at work again. Unlike you I don't support law breaking on my behalf. Especially when it comes to war crimes which means murder, rape, torture of innocents in your name.

Your mistake is assuming that stating a fact equals support of that fact. It's a common mistake in P&N. For those that tend to rely on emotional arguments it's understandable though. Apparently they can't see very far beyond that emotion and the associated knee jerks that drive them.

Fact. You support the illegal invasion of Iraq. You cannot both support the illegal invasion and the subsequent war crimes, and international law at the same time.

Fact. I also support vigilante justice when the law doesn't do the right thing because a few on the side of "the law" interfere with justice being served. imo, Iraq was vigilante justice, was the right thing to do, and still is the right thing to do despite all the difficulties encountered.

Wow, so do everyone have the right to perform vigilante justice according to their own criteria as to what is the right thing to do?

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: Colt45
The american equivalent of this would be:

armed mexican terrorists (funded through drug smuggling) start attacking californian police officers.
US sends in the army
"NATO" bombs all of the US to "stop genocide" which never occured.
California is placed under the control of UN. Many of the remaining americans flee. UN resolution is formed that says american borders will NOT be changed.
10 years pass - during this time many "american" structures are destroyed... more americans flee. Unemployment is ubiquitous. "NATO" sets up a large base in California.
Former mexican terrorists are now seen as legitimate politicians, and claim independence with support of EU.


Do you see how fucked this is? Except the mexicans have more claim to california than albanians do to kosovo. Kosovo has been serbian since the dawn of time.

You are 100% correct. You are going to see a lot of countries that have seperatists not support this. I bet Spain won't.

 

[postmortemIA]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: Colt45
The american equivalent of this would be:

armed mexican terrorists (funded through drug smuggling) start attacking californian police officers.
US sends in the army
"NATO" bombs all of the US to "stop genocide" which never occured.
California is placed under the control of UN. Many of the remaining americans flee. UN resolution is formed that says american borders will NOT be changed.
10 years pass - during this time many "american" structures are destroyed... more americans flee. Unemployment is ubiquitous. "NATO" sets up a large base in California.
Former mexican terrorists are now seen as legitimate politicians, and claim independence with support of EU.


Do you see how fucked this is? Except the mexicans have more claim to california than albanians do to kosovo. Kosovo has been serbian since the dawn of time.

You are 100% correct. You are going to see a lot of countries that have seperatists not support this. I bet Spain won't.

Spain already said they will not recognize this unilateral step, and Spain is pretty pissed that nobody listen to their argument in EU.

However, major western powers will never support secession of Spain, that is major difference.

 

[Oric]

I can't believe what some posters are writing on this board .. From their arse

First of all Kosovo is 90% of Albanian ... Albanians are secular and are not 100% Muslims ... If you care to look up Mother Teresa is a Catholic Albanian and Orthodox, Catholic Christians make up a significant proportion of Albania's population, on the other hand the biggest sect of Islam in Albania is the Bektasi Sect which has very mild and positive view of daily life, some Bektasi even drink alcohol and say that Islam does not ban wine !

Anyways, people in Kosovo also live secular and tons of money from Saudi Arabia won't change that. Similarly USA and EU send considerable amount of money to this small country and you guys think Saudi money will beat yours ??

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Fact. I also support vigilante justice when the law doesn't do the right thing because a few on the side of "the law" interfere with justice being served. imo, Iraq was vigilante justice, was the right thing to do, and still is the right thing to do despite all the difficulties encountered.

Something tells me if this thread continues on you will regret saying this.

 

[Adn4n]

Bosnia didn't turn into a terrorist state even after the Saudis funded the building of many mosques. I should know, I'm one of these allegedly muslim Bosnians that is strangely actually an atheist. Yugoslavia was a communist country that allowed freedom of religion but most people chose the communist party instead.

 

[postmortemIA]

Originally posted by: Adn4n
Bosnia didn't turn into a terrorist state even after the Saudis funded the building of many mosques. I should know, I'm one of these allegedly muslim Bosnians that is strangely actually an atheist. Yugoslavia was a communist country that allowed freedom of religion but most people chose the communist party instead.

terrorist in your own town

Also it is well known that wahhabism is rising in Bosnia, and there were some incidents.

As for Turkey, it seems that they are influenced by fundamentalism too.

 

[theeedude]

US creating another Islamic terrorist state to piss off the Russians. I guess Afghanistan wasn't enough.

 

[Stifko]

Originally posted by: senseamp
US creating another Islamic terrorist state to piss off the Russians. I guess Afghanistan wasn't enough.

I hope that you don't really believe that. The above is a total crock of $hite.

There will be no increase in terrorist activities in Kosovo after they become independant. That arguement is weak, and baseless.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: postmortemIA
LOL "we'll break intl. law and give you (in)dependence but please don't turn terrorist"

Well, they already did in 2004:

The violence quickly spread to other parts of Kosovo, with Kosovo Serb communities and religious and cultural symbols attacked by crowds of Albanians. Some of these locations were ostensibly under the protection of KFOR at the time. During the riots and violence, eight Kosovo Serbians were killed.

The sites of violence included[citation needed]:

* Belo Polje - Serb returnees attacked
* Caglavica - Serb houses set on fire;
* Kosovo Polje - Serb houses and a hospital set on fire;
* Lipljan - gunfights between KFOR and Albanians, four Serbs killed, remaining Serbs took refugee in Orthodox Church which was attacked;
* Pec - rioting in which UN offices were attacked; one Albanian killed by UN police.
* Pri?tina - all remaining Serbs evacuated or forced out
* Gnjilane - all remaining Serbs evacuated or forced out
* Cernica, Serb village near Gnjilane - three Serbs wounded
* Svinjare, Serb village near Kosovska Mitrovica - burnt houses
* Obilic - Serb houses burnt, all Serbs chased out
* Vitina - Attack on church prevented by US Army KFOR troops, Orthodox priest injured, demonstrators threw rocks at US Army soldiers and set fire to many Serb homes
* Drajkovce, village near ?trpce - two Serbs killed
* Grabac - Serbian village, most Serbians evacuated by Italian peacekeepers to Osojane Serbian village, some parts of Grabac attacked.

In a statement on March 18, the Serbian Orthodox Church reported that a number of its churches and shrines in Kosovo had been damaged or destroyed by rioters. These included:

Prizren:

* Our Lady of Ljevi? Cathedral (Bogorodica Ljevi?ka), 12th century was burned down on March 17
* Church of Saint Salvation (Sveti Spas), 14th century
* St. Hieromartyr George's Cathedral (Sv. velikomucenika Ðorda), 1887 housing the 14th century icon of Mary and an 18th century iconostasis
* Monastery of Saint Archangels from the 14th century
* Church of St. George Runovic, 15th century with 16th century iconostasis gates
* Ra?ka-Prizren Archdiocese
* Building of the Sts. Cyrill and Methodius Orthodox Seminary, 1880, sacked

Pec:

* Church of St. John the Baptist (Svetog Jovana Pretece i Krstitelja) set on fire March 17 in Pecka Banja village
* Belo Polje village church of St. Nicholas, 19th century

Ðakovica: Church of Our Lord's Ascension (Uspenja Gospodnjeg), 19th century, torched along with the parochial residence on March 17. Reports of Albanians clearing the ruins of the Church of the Holy Trinity, destroyed in 1999
Uro?evac: Church of St. Tzar Uro?
Kosovo Polje:

* Saint Nicholas in Kosovo Polje town, 19th century
* Bresje village church of St. Catherine, 19th century

Gnjilane: Church of St. Nicholas, 1861
Pri?tina: Church of St. Nicholas, 19th century, damaged and sacked
Vucitrn: Church of St. Elijah, burned down
Southern Kosovska Mitrovica: Church of Saint Sava set afire in the morning of March 18, adjoining Orthodox cemetery desecrated
Srbica: Devic Monastery, nuns evacuated by Danish soldiers, monastery pillaged and torched
?timlje: Church of St. Archangel Michael set on fire on March 19
Orahovac: Bela Crkva and Brnjak village churches burnt
Vitina: Two destroyed churches, in town and in village of Donja Slapa?nica
Obilic: Church set afire

That's just normal European life. Minorities are oppressed to satisfy the majority.

Srbica: Devic Monastery, nuns evacuated by Danish soldiers, monastery pillaged and torched

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Danish soldiers weren't the targets of that attack. Danish soldiers participated in many gruesome atrocities there, including participating in mass killings.

 

[GrGr]

Heh, the US has a huge airbase in Kosovo. How convenient then that the four biggest NATO countries (the US, UK, France and Germany) support the separatists. While they certainly don't in other cases. The history of the US and UK especially is one big bloodbath of separatists trying to remove themselves from their bloody talons. This has less to do with love for the separatists in Kosovo than geopolitics on the grand scale.

 

[Adn4n]

Originally posted by: postmortemIA

Originally posted by: Adn4n
Bosnia didn't turn into a terrorist state even after the Saudis funded the building of many mosques. I should know, I'm one of these allegedly muslim Bosnians that is strangely actually an atheist. Yugoslavia was a communist country that allowed freedom of religion but most people chose the communist party instead.

terrorist in your own town

Also it is well known that wahhabism is rising in Bosnia, and there were some incidents.

As for Turkey, it seems that they are influenced by fundamentalism too.

First of all, I knew Sulejman as he went to the same jr. high school. The kid was not a muslim terrorist he was plainly fucked up and had social issues most likely due to him stemming from Srebrenica, as the article you posted says. So what is your point? Do you say a killer that just happens to be muslim must do it because he's a fundamentalist? That would be like me blaming columbine on Christianity when it is obvious that those kids were just messed up. And this rise in Wahhabism hasn't been revealed to me during my stints there besides the new mosque the Saudis built. I think you're overreacting. That kind of Islam is not what Bosnians associate with.

 

[Dainas]

This whole thing has made me glad for once the EU, USA and UN gave the general view of Kosovo among the outside masses the cold shoulder. Honestly I've never seem such a ill-informed moronic view completely detached from the actual situation be so widely believed.