LCD 1600x1200/1680x1050 Best Choice?

[ThanatosGOD]

I'm currently about to upgrade from a seriously old 19" CRT and reckon I should make the leap to LCD. After extensive research I've compiled this shortlist:

Wide Screen 1680x1050
NEC
MultiSync® LCD20WGX2 6 ms (g2g) S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201W01) panel
Samsung
215TW 21" Wide 8 ms (g2g) S-PVA (Samsung LTM210M2) panel
Viewsonic
VX2025wm 20.1" 8 ms (g2g) P-MVA (AUO M201EW01 V0)

4:3 1600x1200
Samsung
204T 20.1" 16 ms S-PVA (Samsung LTM201U1) panel
214T 21.3" 8 ms (g2g) S-PVA (Samsung LTM213U6) panel
Viewsonic
VP2030b 20" 8 ms (g2g) P-MVA (AUO M201UN02 V5) panel
VP2130b 21" 8 ms (g2g) S-PVA (Samsung LTM213U6) panel

I was considering the Dell UltraSharp 2007WFP/2007FP, but extensive reports of colour banding etc put me off.
Basically my CRT is so old and crap I don't even know the make or model and it?s a curved screen which reflects so I'm expecting major improvements.
I will be using the screen for FPS gaming along with other genres, watching video torrents e.g. downloaded movies etc, and normal web and office use. I find the idea of widescreen quite appealing-I would not be losing any vertical height compared to my old CRT anyway, and the extra space would be useful.

I realise that pretty much all of the above screens are very good-but I'm looking for the best. All but the NEC MultiSync LCD20WGX2 are Super Patterned Vertical Alignment (S-PVA)/Premium MVA panels (P-MVA). The NEC's new Advanced Super IPS (AS-IPS) panel does appear to be perhaps slightly superior in terms of response times and colour; whereas the S-PVA/P-MVA's seem to have better blacks and movie playback. I'm not too concerned about ergonomics and features etc but want solid build quality and warranties.

Will the 21" screens affect sharpness much with the larger dot pitch? I'm used to reflective screens and they don't bother me much but is the NEC's OptiClear coating really bad? Plus what is 'twinkling' in movies and will it affect me?

I'm not too concerned about price or about displaying these native resolutions, I have a 7900GTX; I just want the best screen possible in this range in terms of responsiveness, clarity, vivid colours, sharpness, and general IQ. The NEC being a widescreen has 1:1 Pixel Mapping which I think could be very useful for any 4:3 games; I'm not sure if any of the other 16:10 screens mentioned have this feature, but then again if the 4:3 screens above are superior then this in inconsequential.

It would be really helpful if someone who has 1 or more of these screens gave their conclusive opinions. Currently I'm leaning towards the NEC MultiSync LCD20WGX2 and widescreen (in general) but will simply get whichever you guys think is the most outstanding!

Thanks

 

[jday]

I don't own either of these but I'm in the process of getting new computer and have been researching Dells and their monitors. I, too, read a of reviews concerning the banding issue. But, I also read a message from Dell where this issue has been solved (I'll paste it below--it's a fairly long response):

Dell is committed to serving our customers.

We have received feedback from some customers regarding our 2007FP, 2007WFP and 2407WFP monitors regarding uneven color bands on some images. This effect is known as "banding.? It is due to the Adaptive Color and Contrast? (ACC) and Active Color Management? (ACM) feature of the Faroudja video processing chip. For general usage, ACC and ACM technology found in this chip is known for delivering impressive picture details and optimal image quality across a multitude of monitor usage modes.

Dell has a tested a firmware update that adjusts the ACC & ACM features, eliminating the banding issue when using the DVI input in Desktop mode. All of these monitors have three display modes: Desktop, Multimedia and Gaming. The firmware turns off Faroudja video processing in Desktop mode. It remains enabled in the other two modes. Essentially, the updated firmware allows users to choose whether they want the Faroudja video processing feature on or off.

Starting today, we have updated units with the new firmware to ship out on an ongoing basis, and will look to fulfill customer requests as quickly as possible. For details on how to proceed, you have two options: email me directly at Customer_Advocate@dell.com, or visit the Dell Community Forum.
http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums...?board.id=dim_monitor&message.id=56617

Sincerely,

Geoff
Dell Customer Advocate
Customer_Advocate@dell.com

 

[Ichigo]

Widescreen, whatever you choose.

 

[Sureshot324]

Widescreen is better for movies and games, fullscreen is better for web browsing/programming/etc. I went with the viewsonic widescreen and am very happy with it.

 

[ThanatosGOD]

Thanks for the replies.

OK I'm pretty set on widescreen now, I was definitely leaning that way anyway. However choosing between the 3 is just as hard.

The NEC LCD20WGX2 seems to be highly recommended and on paper at least has very good specs. Crucially it has been judged the fastest of all 20" panels (similar to 2ms TN panels) in real testing. Although some hate the glossy coating -is this really a problem? Also there are complaints of excessive 'twinkling' in movie playback.

The Viewsonic VX2025wm appears to be a popular choice and is at a very good price point; although it does have the 8 ms (g2g) P-MVA (AUO M201EW01 V0) panel which from what I've read is slightly lesser to the NEC's 6 ms (g2g) AS-IPS (LG.Philips LM201W01) panel, mainly in terms of response time and colour reproduction. However it doesn't seem to have the glossy screen problem or 'twinkling' in movies, as P-MVA panels are apparently the best for movie playback.

The Samsung 215TW 21" Wide looks pretty good, but I am little concerned about the 21" screen compared to the 20.1" NEC and Viewsonic and the corresponding dot pitch values. Additionally in Europe the Samsung 215TW 21" is the only one of the 3 with HDCP support. Perhaps a useful long-term measure although I'm not that bothered about it.

I really need to choose between these! Please Help?!

 

[nitromullet]

I have a Dell 2005FPW, and if I was to get a 20" widescreen LCD today I would go with the NEC. The NEC is the best looking LCD I've ever seen at any pricepoint.

 

[Dkcode]

The NEC does seem like its the highest quality out of the lot and you will get what you pay for. As for the glossy coating, I use a NEC LCD2080UXi which also has it and tbh at first i didnt like it. I even considered RMA'ing the monitor but i stuck with it and i have got used to it and i must say ive not used any display that has the same quality of colours and saturation as mine. I dont know if the glossy screen has something to do with it. Anyway when i have used friends old viewsonic lcd for a few hours, coming home to use this is a real treat.

If you have the $$$ id take the NEC out of the lot, if at first you dont like the glossy coating, stick with it and you will get used to it and you may start to like it, its something about the colours.
The viewsonic is also a great option but for me personally i dont like the case and stand, If they did a VP 20" WS version that would be intresting.

 

[ThanatosGOD]

I'm literally about to place to place the order for the NEC......Just any opinions on the Samsung 215TW?? It?s about the same price as the NEC but 21". I know I'll probably end up getting the NEC but I'm really anal about complete research prior to purchase (kind of an annoying disease!)

Thanks for all the advice so far!

 

[Dkcode]

I agree on the principle of thorough research on any product before purchase. Especially when its something expensive, i think its common sense really.

Anyway if you get the NEC please post back with pics and your own brief opinion of it. Id be happy to read.

 

[FrustratedUser]

1600 x 1200 for sure. Not a huge fan of widescreen unless it's a 24".

 

[Auric]

1680x1050 is a wide screen alternative to 1280x1024 since it adds significant horizontal area (and is thus essentially a stretched 17") but cannot compare to 1600x1200 since that is almost as wide but much taller. So if you want to save some scratch on the LCD and play games at lower resolutions (including 4:3 AR's) then get the smaller "wide screen" (also save moolah on viddy upgrades), otherwise spring for the standard screen.

 

[hans007]

i dont get why everyone says 1680x1050 is better than 1600x1200.


i'd generally not care, or prefer the 1600x1200, but those monitors tend to cost more by lik e$80-100 for equivalent brandname.

that said it is about 10% more pixels.


the nec seems ike a good choice, it is just way too expensive, you coudl get 2 similar benq brand units at costco for the cost of one of those . it is though a really relaly good panel. if you dont have a bright light shiining on it, the glossy screen is a real good features. with the bright light... well not so much.

 

[ThanatosGOD]

Thank you all very much for your advice. I've now decided on the NEC (rather annoying in a way since after so much research, I've decided on what I was going to get anyway! still nice to be thorough).

I'm based in the UK and was wondering if you guys know the best place to buy the NEC, for price and RMA service etc. Any suggestions would be welcome.

Thanks again

 

[Dkcode]

Try Overclockers or Scan.
I once made the mistake of buying a Apple 20" Widescreen from Overclockers so i RMA'd it. I got them to arrange City Link to collect the monitor from me and they refunded the money to my credit card within a week.

Never had to RMA anything back to Scan but i dont think they are as effecient in returns as Overclockers.

Make sure you leave your opinions on the monitor when you recive it.

 

[ThanatosGOD]

I bought my all my system components from scan.co.uk. I had to RMA a couple of peripherals and they were pretty good and efficient-did the whole City Link pick up and refund quickly.

The only problem is scan don't have it in stock but overclockers do. I really want the new screen in time for the 7900GTX I've just stepped up to via EVGA. I've never bought from Overclockers UK before, although I have known of them for ages. If you recommend them then I'm sure they'll be fine.

I'll be sure to post back when I receive the monitor. For the sake of interest since this will be my first LCD; is there anything I should look out for or check for upon receipt of it?

Thanks again. I feel like I'm making a very informed choice; its still a lot of money (I argued with myself over the VX2025, £100 less!). However this is essentially my 1st ever monitor purchase, and I need it to do justice to my PC system.

 

[Dkcode]

They are alot of mixed feelings about Overclockers but to be honest i have never come arcoss anyone personally who has had a problem with them. The delivery is good too just like Scan so if you order before 2PM it will arive the next day.

As for the monitor all the usual checks will be nessecary such as dead pixel searching (run red, green and blue backgrounds to help find) and check for backlight bleeding (use a black background and search for white areas from the backlight around the bottom and top corners). Although some slight backlight bleeding is normal on all LCD's so dont worry too much if you notice a small amount of white. Other than that there isnt much else to worry about only if the unit arrives physically broken.

It may take you a while to get used to LCD especially if you have used a CRT monitor for so long. Have a fiddle with the contrast, brightness and colour temperature settings and see what is best with your eyes.

 

[ThanatosGOD]

This is getting on my nerves............

So I called up Overclockers UK this morning with the full intention of buying the NEC MultiSync LCD20WGX2 for £400 odd. Just as I was about to give my card details the sales guy tries to persuade me to get the Viewsonic VX2025wm; he spends the next 10min expounding upon the virtues of the Viewsonic, and the slight vices of the NEC, backlight bleeding etc! The really curious thing is that at Overclockers the Viewsonic is a whole £100 cheaper than the NEC! So I found it difficult to dismiss his advice, since this was blatantly no sales ploy.

He directed me to a couple of reviews, BeHardware, Bit-Tech, Lesnumerique. All of which I had read; and indicated to me that the Viewsonic was better in each test. A particularly useful comparison was given by this tool and these pictures:
Lesnumerique Comparison
DarkPic Comparison
LightPic Comparison

One can't deny that those reviews are favourable to the Viewsonic. So since my EVGA step-up has been delayed a little I decided to think about it over the weekend. I really am getting quite frustrated in deciding between these 2. The NEC is faster and has better colours, that much I know, objectively, and I did pop into a local pc store the other day and happen to see a couple of Toshiba and Sony laptops with really glossy screens-and I have to admit I liked their screens a lot. It appears to make the image look crisper, more vibrant, and just somehow more vivid and real, even if this is misleading. But I haven't subjectively seen either the Viewsonic or the NEC and to be honest I'm no professional judge anyway. That lesnumerique 'face a face' is interesting, I think the video comparison does favour the Viewsonic-and in general the Viewsonic seems to be more of an 'all-round screen'. I really can't decide between those dark/light pictures. So basically I'm stuck; for some reason I'm still drawn to the NEC, but will kick myself if the Viewsonic is even slightly better. I still maintain that I will get either regardless of the price differential.

I feel like a real pain is the ass for asking this of you guys, in particular xtnight and Dkcode, but do you think you could look at those links and give me your opinion. And also if anyone has had both monitors at some point-please help me!? I want to feel that the NEC 'must be' better if for nothing else than the price, but how can that many reviews say the Viewsonic is better overall?!

I intend to order either screen on Monday, to be delivered on Tuesday, both are in stock and should arrive at the same time as my video card. I've got a weekend to decide-please help!?

Thanks so much, and I apologise for the inconvenience.

 

[LittleNemoNES]

The NEC 20wmgx2 is awesome. It works pretty well with the vast majority of websites. Unfortunately some games like Battlefield 2 still don't support it. Writing word docs is kinda weird with widescreen.

 

[hans007]

if you dont mind the opticlear coat (i have one of them and love it) the nec is vastly superior to that viewsonic. part of the reason for the opticlear coat is it distributes backlighting better supposedly . so the nec panels have a very even backlight. so i would say that was an awful sales ploy. they probably get a bigger profit on the view sonic ones, in the US the difference in price is something like $300 on those (on froogle nec is like $650 cheapest here, the viewsonic is something like $340) which is i figure something like $2000 UK pounds.

 

[ThanatosGOD]

Got the NEC MultiSync LCD20WGX2! (BRIEF REVIEW)

I received the NEC last Friday just after I received my 7900GTX step-up. I have every thing set-up now, and I must say I am not disappointed! I'm not completely blown away by the quality of this screen compared to my old 19" CRT; but it is a definite improvement, particularly since LCD's don't flicker, that used to really drive me mad.

Having never had an LCD it feels very weird to have such a diminutive monitor instead of my previous CRT behemoth! I'll compile a brief and succinct review below, though I am not as technically knowledgeable as all of you and very have little means of comparison!

AESTHETICS AND ERGONOMICS:

Overall this is a very attractive monitor. The thin silver bezel gives a very appealing picture frame appearance, much like my CRT Toshiba Picture Frame TV. The Silver/Black colour scheme, the bezel being silver and the base and cabinet being black, means that this monitor compliments all computer set-ups, matching peripherals and cases etc. The black base is simple effective and unobtrusive.

Obviously thin LCD's give huge ergonomic advantages over CRT's being so thin. However I find the positioning of the inputs rather difficult, granted you may only need to access them once but they really are quite difficult to reach. You need to tilt the monitor the full 30 degrees forward and get right underneath the inputs-this makes access to the 2 of 4 USB ports irritating. Having said that, the cable management system conceals the cables very effectively. Build quality is also very high and its surprisingly light.

FUNCTIONALITY AND OSD:

As far as I know most 20" widescreen monitors have limited tilt, swivel, rotate, and height adjustment capabilities and the NEC is no different. Basically you get limited forward tilting and that?s it. I don't see why you can't have height adjustment or portrait mode like DELL's LCD's? It?s not an issue for me at all; but more options in terms of the monitor?s positional adjustment can only be an improvement.

The OSD is really brilliant, it?s very simple and easy to use. The joystick control is very good and you can even change the brightness of the blue LED within it. Most reviews heavily compliment the NEC's OSD and I can see why.

IMAGE QUALITY

I'm connecting the NEC via DVI from a 7900GTX and the image is superb! The screen is crisp, vibrant and just generally brilliant! Text is very clear and crisp, picture sharpness and definition is splendid. I won't go on as this is subjective.

COLOUR REPRODUCTION:

As far as I can tell the colours on this monitor are very impressive. There is a real depth and richness to all colours, particularly blacks. I've tried 1 small movie file and found no problems at all; but in all honesty I don't really care for video playback on a 20" monitor. According to reviews this monitor has just about the best 'out of box' colour accuracy. I do a little bit of photo editing and have none of the casting problems I had with my old CRT. I currently have the colour set to sRGB 6500K; but I am not sure whether to use native or not? Do any of you think using a calibrator is worth it? Or do you recommend using another colour space or temperature? I really would like some advice in this area.

RESPONSE TIME AND GAMING:

This is marketed as a gaming monitor and is basically the fastest 20" around. I'm very discerning when it comes to gaming performance and any lag (I've tried tons of mice because of my sensitivity and finally settled for a G7). Essentially there is no input lag or response time issue, even in the fastest gaming scenarios. Unless you were looking really, really hard for any kind of ghosting (so hard that basically you would die in seconds in any FPS!) you simply would not have any problems at all. Colours look great in games-again there very deep, rich and vivid, subtle hues and shadows (think FEAR) are picked up very well. Also it?s worth mentioning that the brightness of NEC's panel really helps here. I haven't tried any Advanced DM Modes or anything, but at least you know that the monitor is fine without them.

VIEWING ANGLES:

To be direct, you are going have no problems with this S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201W01) panel the screen is constant at many extreme angles.

WIDESCREEN:

I'm not convinced over the benefits of 16:10 widescreen over 4:3 aspect screens. Sure there?s more horizontal real estate, but you do lose a little vertically. And gaming can be a headache! Despite the obvious prevalence of widescreen monitors now, I'm quite amazed to see how many games don't support widescreen resolutions. Editing config and ini files can be tedious and often the FOV gets messed up. I must say though that HALF-LIFE 2 looks good in widescreen. One has to remember that these widescreen LCD's are borne out of cost cutting in the manufacturing process-and not necessarily to build a 'better' monitor. Movie watching in widescreen LCD's is frankly overrated. You nearly always have substantial black bars at the top and bottom anyway. Having said all this it looks like most of the top monitors available are widescreen and this is going to be the trend-I can imagine that much larger screens, 24", 30" etc would be brilliant in 16:10 aspect.

GLOSSY OPTICLEAR COATING:

I just don't know what all the fuss is about with the glossy screen? I think it?s excellent and not at all a distraction, and I have a huge window with light pouring through it in front of the screen. On the contrary the glossy sheen makes the colours look really vivid and real. My sister, who uses a matt coated DELL at work, much prefers the NEC, its crisper and somehow more refined.

OSD SETTINGS AND 1:1 PIXEL MAPPING:

Having just got the monitor I would appreciate some help in adjusting monitor settings. In particular the BRIGHTNESS, CONTRAST, and SHARPNESS levels. This is a very bright screen-currently I have it set at 50% but am not sure if that?s best. The other big issue is the 1:1 Pixel mapping, when I bought the monitor; one of the tipping points for me in going for the NEC over the Viewsonic VX2025 was this. Essentially this feature is meant to be able to display a smaller resolution within the screen, without stretching or changing the aspect ratio. I think the setting for this is called 'EXPANSION MODE' but I don't seem able to adjust that control-I don't know if its because I'm using DVI and not analogue. Nevertheless I want this feature and need to know how to enable it as it?s invaluable in games.

SYSTEMIC BACKLIGHT BLEEDING:

Unfortunately this has been the only achilles heel of the NEC MultiSync LCD20WGX2. It?s something very difficult to judge and only affects the user in the darkest of environments and images. I got my NEC from Overclockers UK and thankfully it has no dead pixels but it does I think have a little bleeding particularly in the bottom left corner. It really is very minor and it may even go away. Nonetheless I called NEC support and they really were very helpful and knowledgeable. They informed me that this has been a problem, but in some case it goes away with time. However the representative told me that all monitors are now screened and tested and even the transportation process has been altered to solve the problem. They offered me a replacement and will ship it to me, give me a chance to compare the new one and return the old one if its better. I have a week or so to decide what to do. Should I replace the panel? Has anyone had any experience with RMA'ing the NEC MultiSync LCD20WGX2? What I don't want is to end up with a worse screen, perhaps with dead pixels or to continually send back replacements, as I have done with other products.

CONCLUSION:

Overall the NEC MultiSync LCD20WGX2 monitor is superb, you would not regret the decision to purchase one and the technical support from NEC UK seems competent too. One piece of advice though, in hindsight I think it would be good to get a larger widescreen monitor with a bigger native resolution and then make sure its capable of 1:1 Pixel mapping so you can play games at lower resolutions for the sake of graphic cards demands.

I hope this review was useful, and I thank xtknight, Dkcode and others for their advice prior to purchase; and I would really appreciate some advice regarding the questions above.

Thanks

 

[eLiu]

Edit: nvm, you purchased

 

[imported_Lucent]

For nvidia cards go to Device Adjustments -> Digital Flat Panel Settings and choose "Centered Output". This should make a 1:1 pixel output. Here's a link to the picture: http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wi...ex.php?title=Image:Fixed_aspect_nv.jpg

Post if this works because I am interested in this matter and I have posted a question about it.

 

[Cuthalu]

Originally posted by: ThanatosGOD
A particularly useful comparison was given by this tool and these pictures:
Lesnumerique Comparison
DarkPic Comparison
LightPic Comparison

One can't deny that those reviews are favourable to the Viewsonic.

Ömm, those screenshots show clearly how Nec has better colors and contrast.