LCD verses CRT

Page 6 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Hadsus

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2003
1,135
0
76
Originally posted by: housecat
You can get into the technicalitys all you want.

But in practice, the LCD works better and most people prefer it. Yes even side by side, what do you think we went from, plasma to LCD? Or CRT to LCD?

I think we all have our CRTs to compare with here son.

If you can sell someone who owns and uses a 2405 or 2005FPW a CRT then you would be right.

But you'll never do that. Because you are wrong. Its really that simple

On paper, ya you have response time advantages, color advantages... whooptie whoop mother ducker.
In real world use outside of graphic design, LCD simply took over.
No more Mitsu/NEC, and those were some of the best CRTs.

Your arguments are shallow and cliched. Really all you have argued and your cohorts is along the lines of old tech vs. new tech, big vs. small, heavy vs. light, thin vs. fat. I've given you facts......fixed resolution, poor imaging due to poor blacks (contrast ratio), lack of shadow detail, quality issues (along with personal issues like brightness and small text). You have no response to those shortfalls and they don't exist in the CRT world. Yes, you are very much pop-culture just as I've said. You got an LCD because it was the thing to do. Never considered a CRT I bet. You are just like the early adopters of CD music tech who chose form and style over performance. Like I said, shallow. As far as going from CRT to LCD we've been over this. Old and used up CRTs can look like crap. I'm talking new unit vs. new unit. You never bothered to make the comparison which is why you have no validity in your argument.
 
Mar 19, 2003
18,289
2
71
Originally posted by: housecat
Originally posted by: SynthDude2001
Originally posted by: housecat
Originally posted by: SynthDude2001
Originally posted by: housecat
If you can sell someone who owns and uses a 2405 or 2005FPW a CRT then you would be right.

But you'll never do that. Because you are wrong. Its really that simple

I own a 2005FPW, but if I didn't frequently move my computer, I'd much prefer a nice high-end CRT for gaming.

find me someone who this guy has actually convinced to give up their 2405 as their primary (and only) display forever, for a CRT.

not gonna happen.

So suddenly you remove the 2005FPW from your argument because one person doesn't agree?

Of course no one will want to go from a 2405 to a CRT of any type - the closest thing is the Sony GDM-FW900, which is no longer produced, and is smaller as far as visible area anyway. There isn't exactly anything to compare it to for anyone who needs 24" of viewable space.

My point is, it just seems like you're trying so hard to justify your LCD purchase here. I think LCD's are great (I wouldn't have bought one myself if I thought they weren't worth the money) - but just realize that there are definite advantages to CRT's (just like there are for LCD's), and just because someone picks a CRT over an LCD, doesn't make their opinion invalid simply because it's not the option you chose.

Nah, 2005 isnt removed I just didnt type it.

Way to nitpick to win an argument tho, I'll edit it to please you. Didnt realize you were one of those types, mispell a word and the spelling queen comes out.. great.


Me trying hard? I'm just presenting the facts. Its all this technical mumbo jumbo about CRTs having a 1ms response rate that is where things get really dumb.

LCD is better, no one is going to dump a nice LCD like the 2005 for a crappy old square CRT that takes up a 3x3' area and weighs 75lbs sorry.

PS. That guy didnt say he would swap his 2005 for a CRT anyway.. he said CRTs are too heavy to do what he needs..

HMMMMMM sounds like what I've been saying, overall most people are going to want the LCD right? Isnt that what I said?

Thats right noobcake.



The sad truth for you is, besides graphical professionals- overall the LCD wins everytime.

All I can say is, enjoy your CRT.. it will be funny when you wake up and own a nice LCD.
I doubt you'll bring your rotten face around here when that inevitably will happen..

unless you are hoarding a few Diamondtrons in your basement because you heard the unfathomable happened, they are discontinued :thumbsup:

If you didn't actually mean to remove the 2005, I apologize, I didn't realize it was a typo.

All I'm trying to do is make the point that it's not just "graphic professionals" who will want CRT's - they still beat LCD's for gaming by quite a bit. While LCD's have gotten quite acceptable at this point (inasmuch as many people don't see ghosting anymore), people have different levels of sensitivity to it. I still notice it on my 2005FPW, and I can also tell the difference between the 60fps maximum I can get on this LCD, and the (for example) 109fps I can get at 1600x1200 on the NEC monitor in question. It makes a big difference (to me) in playing fast FPS games.

I'm really not sure why you're being so confrontational with me though, I mean, I even own the same monitor that you do. There's really no need to call me names when you disagree with me, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't.

I'm just saying it is possible to admit that there are real advantages to a type of monitor that you personally chose not to buy...which is what I'm doing.

Edit: Actually, maybe what I'm really saying, is that you cannot just say "LCD is better" or "CRT is better" across the board (which is what you have been doing). People will make choices based on their preferences or needs, which is exactly what they should be doing. And there are at least a few people on this board, the most vocal of which being BenSkywalker, who still much prefer CRT's. That doesn't make him(/them) wrong, it just means they have different requirements in a monitor than you do.

You say "you'd never get a 2005FPW/2405FPW user to switch to a CRT" - that's partially true because people who have spent that kind of money on a monitor have (hopefully, if they're a smart buyer) already made up their minds and come to a decision as to what kind of monitor they want. Likewise, it's probably similarly true that if anyone has a high-end CRT monitor such as the NEC one we've been talking about, that they won't want to throw it away for an LCD (as they exist now anyway). It's just differences of opinion, that's all. There probably are more people, perhaps many more, who want an LCD over a CRT (most likely because it's thin and takes up much less space) - but that doesn't at all invalidate the concerns or preferences of those who prefer CRT's.
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,498
560
126
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Poor blacks and ghosting will always keep me away from LCDs. Someday they will get it right, but for now, im stuck with CRTs.

Most moden LCD's dont ghost. You're thinking of the wrong term.
 
Mar 19, 2003
18,289
2
71
Originally posted by: Space Cowboy
How does this NEC compare to this ONE?

I've contacted one Online Store and they don't have it

Thanks
Cowboy

If I remember correctly, those are both essentially the same monitor - one branded as NEC, one branded as Mitsubishi (i.e., I remember there being two separate model numbers for what is really the same monitor inside).
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Originally posted by: Ackmed
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Poor blacks and ghosting will always keep me away from LCDs. Someday they will get it right, but for now, im stuck with CRTs.

Most moden LCD's dont ghost. You're thinking of the wrong term.

I sell 8ms samsungs at the shop, they still ghost.
 

housecat

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
1,426
0
0
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: Ackmed
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Poor blacks and ghosting will always keep me away from LCDs. Someday they will get it right, but for now, im stuck with CRTs.

Most moden LCD's dont ghost. You're thinking of the wrong term.

I sell 8ms samsungs at the shop, they still ghost.

If you think so.

But at least you can sell them, bye bye Diamondtrons. :thumbsup:
 

Space Cowboy

Senior member
Mar 7, 2005
255
0
0
Ahh,
Don't want to sound stupid but what is Ghosting?

I'm going to look at LCD's one more time tommorrow, but I'm leaning toward getting This

Somebody please tell me .. Is this the best CRT you can get? And is it the right Model?

Thanks a Ton
Cowboy
 

Hadsus

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2003
1,135
0
76
Looks pretty sweet Cowboy. Every online review I read of it is very positive. If you do get this or any of the NEC/Mitsus, make sure you DL the Naviset software. It's much easier to make adjustments using this than the hard buttons. Ghosting or motion blur is used interchangably. Whatever the term used (and there are others) it just means on fast moving games the monitor has trouble keeping up. Images on the screen are no longer crisp and it's harder to keep track of moving objects. Makes you a bit dizzy if you play too long. The Dell 2001fp I owned had this problem with just one game (UT). Since you are not a gamer it is a non-issue. And if you buy a CRT it is most certainly a non-issue. BTW, I was serious about my earlier recommendation. While I think CRTs are superior in just about every way imaginable, if you go with a Dell they are generally very easy to deal with regarding returns. I returned the 2001fp last week and they notified me today that my credit card was charged back the full amount. A rather large majority of people like the Dells. Those that don't complain of excessive brightness (leading to headaches and eye fatigue) and smallish text which the brightness exacerbates. If you go to the display forum in www.hardforum.com, you'll see people complaining about this very thing.

You will have to set your OS resolution to the native setting. The imaging is good though not up to the CRTs you are considering. Specifically shadow detail is lost. This is especially noticeable on images that are dark themselves. Since so many people love the Dells I think you should give them a shot just so you don't have buyer's remorse. Basically I'm giving you the same advice I took myself. :thumbsup:
 

Space Cowboy

Senior member
Mar 7, 2005
255
0
0
This is interesting.

When looking for the best CRT what spec's are you looking for.
I see allot of CRT's with the same spec's as the NEC for allot cheaper.

Thanks
 

Ruroni

Senior member
Sep 9, 2002
216
0
71
I'm on a similar boat as Space Cowboy, except I don't have his budget, so while I would LOVE the NEC FP2141SB-BK 22" I would settle on a good 19" CRT. If anyone has any suggestions as to which might be the daddy of the 19" CRTs I would appreciate the feedback.


For ME and my personal usage, LCDs can't touch CRTs yet (and probably never will be able to). It is a shame, if indeed one day the manufacturing of CRTs ceases, before an equally good or better technology secedes it.

I bought the syncmaster 730B and I don't think this monitor is right for me. LCD technology isn't there, for me, yet. I will return this LCD back to best buy and get a CRT monitor.

Down to the nitty gritty as to why this badboy won?t cut it for me:
in my Quake 3 Arena, for some reason the r_displayrefresh setting affects com_maxfps. And this monitor cannot do 125hz refresh rate. (LCDs can't do that). Also this monitor doesn't take too kindly to being scaled to 800x600 about half an inch to an inch ends up off the screen, on the right hand side. I adjusted the monitor with the OSD controls, but it just doesn't look right; I can see some shearing going on. Lastly, I've owned this LCD for less than one week. I started out with ZERO dead Pixels, now I have a pixel stuck on red, in a pretty central spot. I noticed it first while reading email (it's sitting there, watching me, mocking me, for having bought an LCD, when I knew the truth all along, as I write this post.). LCDs are not ready for me. The only thing I like about LCDs is the fact that they are so light and practical to wield, where as CRTs are clunky.

On that review site, I think I like the viewsonic because it uses Shadow Mask, and despite that it fairs pretty well against the aperture grille monitors (Aperture Grille is supposed to be the daddy technology of CRTs as I have read in some reviews). I think I'd prefer Shadow Mask technology because my 19" Sony Trinitron HMD400 which uses Aperture Grille technology has these 2 very distinct lines going across horizontally, at 1/3 from the top and bottom of the monitor. (Although I would take those 2 lines over an LCD) The problem is I haven't much experience with shadow mask monitors, I hear they are too grainy, but this viewsonic seems to be receiving rave reviews on that link posted by Space Cowboy. Never the less I am seeking a 19? as a 21? is just too heavy and awkward. If anyone knows of a store that may sell the p95f+ or g220fb viewsonic, or the FP2141SBBK (does it have a 19? counter part?). for this kind of thing, I rather not buy online, because if something is wrong with that sucker, I have to box it up and ship it away (at my expense) rather than just take it to the local store.

Please no flaming me for speaking only the truth as I have witnessed it, with these two eyes of mine that one day shall become worm food.
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,498
560
126
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: Ackmed
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Poor blacks and ghosting will always keep me away from LCDs. Someday they will get it right, but for now, im stuck with CRTs.

Most moden LCD's dont ghost. You're thinking of the wrong term.

I sell 8ms samsungs at the shop, they still ghost.

I think you're talking about "motion blur" or whatever its the commonly used term. Ghosting is when you're viewing something from the side, and it sticks out, or ghosts from the rest of the image. My 1800FP on my daughters PC does this, when viewing just about any movie or video from an angle. My 2001FP, 2005FPW, and 2405FPW never did.

 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Originally posted by: Ackmed
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: Ackmed
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Poor blacks and ghosting will always keep me away from LCDs. Someday they will get it right, but for now, im stuck with CRTs.

Most moden LCD's dont ghost. You're thinking of the wrong term.

I sell 8ms samsungs at the shop, they still ghost.

I think you're talking about "motion blur" or whatever its the commonly used term. Ghosting is when you're viewing something from the side, and it sticks out, or ghosts from the rest of the image. My 1800FP on my daughters PC does this, when viewing just about any movie or video from an angle. My 2001FP, 2005FPW, and 2405FPW never did.

Whatever its called, it drives me insane, whenever anything moves fast across the screen you see blurring or ghosting if its fast enough, games with strobe light type effects have the worst problem with this.
 

virtuamike

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2000
7,845
13
81
For text LCDs are great, but for any graphics work I'll go CRT. Personally I've found that the colors are better, gradients are smoother, it's easier to distinguish shadow detail, and I can see sharpening effects clearer.

Give me a Lacie or Trinitron and I'll be happy.
 

Ruroni

Senior member
Sep 9, 2002
216
0
71
For me, when all is said and done, looking at flat screen CRT has pretty much always been a better experience than looking at an LCD, for me. And I think one of the reasons for this is the whole viewing angle bit. My Samsung 730b is supposed to be 160°x160° but when I look at the bottom of the screen, or the top, or either of the sides, there is a discolorization that reminds me of hologram baseball cards. As for pixel response time and scalability, I don' think LCDs are there yet and they probably never will be, I can see there is a difference. To get into the lower response time, manufacturers have to start dropping color reproduction, which some may say it's not noticeable, but during driver installation I saw a gradient that had dithering so hard, it almost looked like horizontal stipes. Lastly, 1 pixel stuck on red in one week lets me wonder if it's going to progressively deteriorate. I mean this one that I have right now in the middle of the screen might as well move around and have a voice of its own, so it could be like those little animated screen readers, because that's how much attention it draws from me.

To me, the strongest grace of LCDs (in comparison to CRTs) are the fact that they are so much easier to carry around & move around, plus the fact that they take up much less space due to their size and weight. (Although I HATE it when they have external bricks, then it loses some of that advantage, in mine eyes).

This has been MY experience with LCDs & CRTs. Maybe Samsung can't make good LCDs and there are some other Miracle panels out there that are more tollerable. However, this LCD pretty much falls in line with all the other LCDs I have seen. With the exception of the SONY SDM HS74 I saw at Cicuit City (I don't know if this is their top dog or not, I know there is an SDM HS75 whose base I HATE) but that HS74 had an unbearibly awesome picture, I wanted to take it with me right there and then. However, I remembered that it is an LCD, and as such it will not give me the 125Hz refresh at ANY resolution, I need and it probably wont scale too well to 800x600 (the res I need). That's just too bad becase that SONY XBrite technology really looks amazing to mine eyes. Although I REALLY did not get to SEE it: I didn't see it's ghosting, motion blurring, shearing, dithering with gradients. But what I did get to see was pretty beautiful, rich vibrant colors, nice clean image, brightness and contrast extraordinaire, it looked better than any monitor I had EVER seen... I understand that LCDs refresh rate is not the same as CRTs and that 60Hz is all an LCD needs. And personally I keep my desktop at 1280x1024; that's all fine and dandy for usual windows stuff. But for Quake 3 Arena I need 800x600 @ 125Hz. And I imagine that if this holds true for Quake 3 Arena, then anything that can not meet or excede my Q3A needs probably wouldn't meet the needs of other games either. But, then again all games are made differently and NeverWinter Nights looks & plays great on this LCD. Although NWN is an RPG, that doesn't need the speed and accuracy that Q3A and other FPS need.

I guess in a nutshell, because I am addicted to Q3A, Q3A has in fact become my real world benchmark utility in which I see and feel the difference between all hardware I use. And in that benchmark LCDs dissapoint me. CRTs will most likely never be matched by LCDs. And my thinking goes, if it's not good enough for Quake 3 Arena, it's not good enough for me.


I realize that I teeter totter on the edge of which tehcnology is better, especially when mentioning that SONY and its Xbrite. But that's just the way it is. LCDs and their low power consumption, small footprint and lightweight could be king of the hill, if only they didn't ghost, motion blur, shear, limit the viweing angle, dither and if the did scale, and allowed refresh rate adjustment... For what it's worth, if God himself came down to earth and told me "I am the all knowing God almighty. I will ask you a question, and if you answer incorrectly, I will strike you dead where you stand. What is better, LCDs or CRTs?" I would risk my life with CRTs and then probably get struck down dead, because there is no spoon, it is only our will that bends...

Please, don't flame me for speaking the truth as I know it.

My hopes ride on OLED technology. Phillips unleashed the 20" and Samsung a 21" screen... I look forward to seeing these in action... Until then Q3A commands CRTs, for me.
 

cbehnken

Golden Member
Aug 23, 2004
1,402
0
0
Originally posted by: Space Cowboy
This is very interesting!

LINK

That article must have been written by a very ignorant person.

1. They say 20" lcd's cost twice as much as a comparable crt. Not true by any means.
2. They say that LCDs may flicker because the refrash rates are low. They aren't talking about ghosting here, they literally mentioned REFRESH rate. Please instruct them to visit the NOOB posts at anandtech here to see the level of their intelligience.

I'm not going to even read the rest after that.
 

Ruroni

Senior member
Sep 9, 2002
216
0
71
Originally posted by: Space Cowboy
This is very interesting!

LINK

Good stuff!

Sad news, that they are killing of CRTs before they can be replaced to my satisfaction (I'm hoping that to MY satisfaction is also to someone else's)

Edit: Now, if I could only find a local retailer that has either the G90fb2 or the G220F, I'd get myself one... I don't know that I would want to order one of those things online... God forbid something went wrong with it, and I'd have to pay shipping to get it back to the store... If anyone knows of a local store in NYC that has these in stock, feel free to PM me. TX
 

uOpt

Golden Member
Oct 19, 2004
1,628
0
0
It is not true that only gaming is affected.

Another often overlooked area is fine shades of black and almost black.

If you watch a movie with a lot of dark scenes in it a good CRT will be much better than any LCD.

As for size, if you watch a 1:2.35 movie a max CRT with 20" viewable and 1:33 aspect ratio has about 88% the actual screen used for the movie as a Dell 2005fp widescreen. 109 square inch versus 124 square inch.

I will either get a 23-24" widescreen LCD or a maxed out CRT. The cost advantage of picking up a used high-end CRT is huge.
 

Ruroni

Senior member
Sep 9, 2002
216
0
71
I just returned the 730b and got the Syncmaster 997df. I've been using it for a few hours now... I love it. I can't find one thing to complain about it, and at 179. + tax, even if I did find something to complain about, it'd have to be outlandish, for me to mind it much. But this monitor is so much more attractive, to me, than the SyncMaster 730b. Even the stand articulates a whole lot more. The only bad thing I would say about it, is that it weighs 40 lbs. Other than that, this CRT is delicious! (Especially at the price)
 

Space Cowboy

Senior member
Mar 7, 2005
255
0
0
love it. I can't find one thing to complain about it, and at 179. + tax, even if I did find something to complain about, it'd have to be outlandish, for me to mind it much

Where did you get it from? That is a great price. Do you think the dot pitch spec they give is correct?
.20mm

Thanks
Cowboy
 

Ruroni

Senior member
Sep 9, 2002
216
0
71
I got it from Circuit City, best buy has them at the same price too. Newegg.com has them too, but they're charging 199.99 plus 25 Shipping & handlng. I think the .20 dot pitch they give is the horizontal. I believe the diagonal dot pitch is .25

So far I'm loving this thing.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |