Legalize Marijuana UPDATE W/ POLL

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arcenite

Lifer
Dec 9, 2001
10,660
7
81
Mary Jane is not illegal because of its direct effects, it is illegal because of what people will do when they experience those effects.
 

Josh

Lifer
Mar 20, 2000
10,917
0
0
Originally posted by: arcenite
Mary Jane is not illegal because of its direct effects, it is illegal because of what people will do when they experience those effects.

Oh okay and I haven't heard of any stories of anyone being drunk and killing random people on accident/purpose. That's never happened. That's why alcohol is legal. You know what though, I always hear in the news about someone smoking a joint then stabbing their friends or driving and killing everyone in the car and random children in another car. I always hear that on FOX 5 news...those damn pot smokers driving around killing people!!! :roll:
 

FrancesBeansRevenge

Platinum Member
Jun 6, 2001
2,181
0
0
Originally posted by: arcenite
Mary Jane is not illegal because of its direct effects, it is illegal because of what people will do when they experience those effects.


And what do you, and your D.A.R.E. pamphlet, tell you people do under the influence of cannabis? Did our government tell us the truth about how people act under the influence of cannabis when they produced the film 'Reefer Madness'?

Or do the government's 'reasons' change as the public becomes more and more aware of the lies? In the 30s it made you into a murderer, in the 60s it made you into a communist, and now it funds terrorism. See my point?

As a visitor to the Cannabis Cup in Amsterdam a number of times let me tell you what these heathens get up to mostly: lots of annoying chatting, lots of laughter, people eating too much and people sitting and staring at random objects. I've never seen one shouting or shoving match let alone fight which is more than I can say about the average Friday night at the local pub.
Edit: Actually I just remembered a bit of a heated moment one year where a couple of my fellow Americans thought they weren't being treated well because everyone is jealous their nationality... when in fact it was because they were rude and insulting to many of the people working there.
 

stormbv

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2000
3,446
1
0
Marijuana can trigger mental illness and psychosis in those predisposed to it. It's more dangerous than people think it is.
 

Josh

Lifer
Mar 20, 2000
10,917
0
0
Originally posted by: stormbv
Marijuana can trigger mental illness and psychosis in those predisposed to it. It's more dangerous than people think it is.

....source?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: arcenite
Mary Jane is not illegal because of its direct effects, it is illegal because of what people will do when they experience those effects.
You mean like when they make late night runs to their local 7-11 for Twinkies and Doritos?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: stormbv
Marijuana can trigger mental illness and psychosis in those predisposed to it. It's more dangerous than people think it is.
Almost anything can trigger mental illness in those predisposed to it.

Cannabis is as harmful to humans as catnip is to cats. And it has proven medicinal benefits, especially to those with very serious medical issues, and it has a multitude of other benefits, from clothing to rope to engine lubricating oil to paper to energy source.

Only an idiot would seek to outlaw and make extinct such a valuable plant simply because he disapproves of those people who use it for its mild intoxicating effects.
 

canadageek

Senior member
Dec 28, 2004
619
0
0
god theres a timless debate....are we allowed to have it or will the police just not care if we have it?
for the record, i live in central BC, which is rife with reefer
 

rodneykm

Member
Dec 12, 2005
39
0
0
Every "pot head" I know (and I know a lot of them) are noticably slower and very unmotivated people. I am definitely against legalizing pot and it wouldnt hurt my feelings if alcohol were outlawed as well. Both are excuses to be stupid and irresponsible.

 

imported_hscorpio

Golden Member
Sep 1, 2004
1,617
0
0
Originally posted by: rodneykm
Every "pot head" I know (and I know a lot of them) are noticably slower and very unmotivated people. I am definitely against legalizing pot and it wouldnt hurt my feelings if alcohol were outlawed as well. Both are excuses to be stupid and irresponsible.


Every drunk I know is worse than every pot head I know. But the thing is not every person that smokes pot is a Jeff Spicolli loser, just like not everyone who drinks is a drunken loser.

Chances are high that you know or have known people that smoke pot, but you have no idea they do it.
 

AMCRambler

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2001
7,714
31
91
We be burnin' not concernin' what nobody got to say! Legalize it yeah! Recognize it yeah!
 

kitkat22

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2005
1,464
1,332
136
I suppose it's time to pull out the peer-reviewed journal articles related to the use of marijuana. Sorry to burst your bubbles, but I take higher credence in peer-reviewed stuff.

1) Title: Altered brain tissue composition in heavy marijuana users.
Author(s): Matochik JA; Eldreth DA; Cadet J; Bolla KI
Source: Drug and Alcohol Dependence (DRUG ALCOHOL DEPENDENCE), 2005 Jan 7; 77(1): 23-30 (39 ref)
Abstract: Marijuana is the most widely used illicit substance in the United States; however, previous imaging studies have not detected altered brain structure in marijuana users compared to non-users. Voxel-based morphometry was used to investigate possible differences in brain tissue composition in a group of 11 heavy marijuana users and a group of 8 non-users. All participants were male. Statistical comparisons were made at the voxel level on T1-weighted magnetic resonance images to determine differences in gray matter and white matter tissue density. Compared to non-users, marijuana users had lower gray matter density in a cluster of voxels in the right parahippocampal gyrus (P = 0.0001), and greater density bilaterally near the precentral gyrus and the right thalamus (P < 0.04). Marijuana users also had lower white matter density in the left parietal lobe (P = 0.03), and higher density around the parahippocampal and fusiform gyri on the left side compared to non-users (P < 0.002). Longer duration of marijuana use (in years) was significantly correlated with higher white matter tissue density in the left precentral gyrus (P = 0.045). Our preliminary results suggest evidence of possible structural differences in the brain of heavy marijuana users, and localize regions for further investigation of the effects of marijuana in the brain.

2) Title: Dose-related neurocognitive effects of marijuana use.
Author(s): Bolla KI; Brown K; Eldreth D; Tate K; Cadet JL
Source: Neurology (NEUROLOGY), 2002 Nov 12; 59(9): 1337-43 (43 ref)
Abstract: BACKGROUND: Although about 7 million people in the US population use marijuana at least weekly, there is a paucity of scientific data on persistent neurocognitive effects of marijuana use. OBJECTIVE: To determine if neurocognitive deficits persist in 28-day abstinent heavy marijuana users and if these deficits are dose-related to the number of marijuana joints smoked per week. METHODS: A battery of neurocognitive tests was given to 28-day abstinent heavy marijuana abusers. RESULTS: As joints smoked per week increased, performance decreased on tests measuring memory, executive functioning, psychomotor speed, and manual dexterity. When dividing the group into light, middle, and heavy user groups, the heavy group performed significantly below the light group on 5 of 35 measures and the size of the effect ranged from 3.00 to 4.20 SD units. Duration of use had little effect on neurocognitive performance. CONCLUSIONS: Very heavy use of marijuana is associated with persistent decrements in neurocognitive performance even after 28 days of abstinence. It is unclear if these decrements will resolve with continued abstinence or become progressively worse with continued heavy marijuana use.

3)Title: Neurocognitive performance of methamphetamine users discordant for history of marijuana exposure.
Author(s): Gonzalez R; Rippeth JD; Carey CL; Heaton RK; Moore DJ; Schweinsburg BC; Cherner M; Grant I
Source: Drug and Alcohol Dependence (DRUG ALCOHOL DEPENDENCE), 2004 Nov 11; 76(2): 181-90 (69 ref)
Abstract: Abuse of the stimulant drug methamphetamine is associated with neural injury and neuropsychological (NP) deficits, while the residual effects of marijuana use remain uncertain. We sought to determine if methamphetamine dependent persons who also met criteria for marijuana abuse or dependence evidenced different NP performance than those with dependence for methamphetamine alone. We examined three groups that did not differ significantly on important demographic factors: (1) subjects with a history of methamphetamine dependence and history of marijuana abuse/dependence (METH+/MJ+, n=27); (2) methamphetamine dependent subjects without history of marijuana abuse/dependence (METH+/MJ-, n=26); (3) a control group with minimal or no drug use (n=41). A comprehensive NP battery was administered and performance was quantified for five cognitive ability areas. The METH+/MJ- group generally demonstrated the greatest NP impairment, with statistically significant differences observed between the METH+/MJ- and control group in learning, retention/retrieval, and a summary score of global NP performance. The METH+/MJ+ group did not differ significantly from the control or METH+/MJ- group on any NP ability. However, there was a significant linear trend in the global NP score suggesting that the METH+/MJ+ performed intermediate to the control and METH+/MJ- groups. Based on these findings, we cannot conclude that there is a protective effect of marijuana use in methamphetamine users; however, marijuana use clearly did not appear to exacerbate methamphetamine neurotoxicity. Further investigations are needed to determine if the emerging literature, suggesting that certain cannabinoids might have neuroprotective actions, is generalizable to community-dwelling substance abusers.

4) Title: Marijuana and cannabinoids: effects on infections, immunity, and AIDS.
Author(s): Cabral GA
Source: Journal of Cannabis Therapeutics (J CANNABIS THER), 2001; 1(3/4): 61-85
Abstract: Marijuana and its major psychoactive component, delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), alter resistance to bacterial, protozoan, and viral infections in vivo and in vitro. These alterations have been accompanied by modifications in functional components of the immune system. In addition, marijuana and THC, as well as other cannabinoids, have been reported to directly affect functional activities of lymphocytes, macrophages, natural killer cells, and other immunocytes. These include effects on cytokine production resulting in a shift in the balance of Th1 versus Th2 cytokines. Both receptor and non-receptor mediated modes of action have been proposed as causative of cannabinoid effects. Reports that marijuana and THC alter anti-microbial activity in vivo arid in vitro indicate that its use presents a potential risk of decreased resistance to infections. However, few controlled longitudinal epidemiological and immunological studies have been undertaken to correlate the immunosuppressive effects of marijuana smoke or cannabinoids on the incidence of' infections or disease in humans.

I didn't want to fill up the whole page with abstracts and such, but if you want I have plenty more where that came from.
 

kitkat22

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2005
1,464
1,332
136
But did you read the abstracts, because there are conclusions in there, in addition, these have been peer-reviewed for credence. If you can show me peer-reviewed articles showing positive effects of marijuana then I will believe those, don't give me dates and comments heard on TV and such, because those have not proved a thing.
 

imported_hscorpio

Golden Member
Sep 1, 2004
1,617
0
0
Originally posted by: cscpianoman
But did you read the abstracts, because there are conclusions in there, in addition, these have been peer-reviewed for credence. If you can show me peer-reviewed articles showing positive effects of marijuana then I will believe those, don't give me dates and comments heard on TV and such, because those have not proved a thing.


Fair enough I'll find some. Can you post the link to the site you pasted ythose from?
 

kitkat22

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2005
1,464
1,332
136
This actually came from a university database search. You have to be a student or faculty to access through their site. There are others, but you have to pay to access them. I'm sure there are other students out there willing to do a database search on their school's libraries, ours uses EBSCO Host, ISI and others. Sadly, all of them are subscription only.

You can try this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

 

imported_hscorpio

Golden Member
Sep 1, 2004
1,617
0
0
I don't feel like cutting and pasting, but you can go to this site and see a nice chart listing various scientific studies on pot. Some are pro, some are neutral, and some are con.

But really whats the point? Can it be abused and have negative effects? Can NIDA spend a bunch of money looking for negative effects? Of course. But they are minor when compared to most drugs and don't exactly warrant putting people in jail.

 

kitkat22

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2005
1,464
1,332
136
That's an OK site, but it definitely does not include all the articles on marijuana. I was able to find at least 300 just searching "effects of marijuana." My guess is the author of the site has an agenda or he would have kept the information updated. There is only about 40 articles he/she mentions. Are there pros, sure, for AIDS treatment, joint movement and such, but the cons can very well outweigh the pros. I'm OK with the use of marijuana in medicine, shoot we use more harmful drugs anyway. I do have a problem legalizing it for public use.
 

meltdown75

Lifer
Nov 17, 2004
37,548
7
81
the most adverse effect in my opinion is not health-related.

pot will sap you of your motivation and pretty much turn you into a hermit. potheads are creatures of habit - the routine becomes second nature and it can be hard to snap out of. however, in moderation, these effects will not occur. if you are lazy and have an addictive personality... watch out.
 

imported_hscorpio

Golden Member
Sep 1, 2004
1,617
0
0
Originally posted by: cscpianoman
That's an OK site, but it definitely does not include all the articles on marijuana. I was able to find at least 300 just searching "effects of marijuana." My guess is the author of the site has an agenda or he would have kept the information updated. There is only about 40 articles he/she mentions. Are there pros, sure, for AIDS treatment, joint movement and such, but the cons can very well outweigh the pros. I'm OK with the use of marijuana in medicine, shoot we use more harmful drugs anyway. I do have a problem legalizing it for public use.


Well it was one of the first ones I found on google that looked unbiased. Also its focused specifically on the medical marijuana debate, so of course they wont list every study about pot. But they have most of the pro's I've come across before and was trying to find.

It doesn't really matter if you think the site is biased, just look up those studies they list as pro from school and evaluate for yourself. You just wanted peer-reviewed studies showing benefits of pot right?
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
Well in some states they still charge you with the federal crime for marijuana use.

I think not only should it be legalized that all old existing charges for its use should be removed from people's records.

I dont see the big hangup with drugs in this country. Just make all drugs legal over the counter, and use a big computer to keep track of what everyone buys. By forcing control of drugs it costs more to buy the actual drugs we need like antibiotics and prescription drugs. Everything should be decontrolled. It is a fallacy that people need to be controlled to protect them.

Their are all kinds of drugs people take that can change their inhibitions, that people can get if they go to a psycologist and claim they are depressed. Marijuana has very little effect on most people. If anything it makes people more mellow and relaxed. It does not make people want to kill themsleves or jump off of buildings. That is all a pile of crap. It is pure bullshit. It is possible overuse of any substance can do some damage just like overuse of tobacco and alcohol can do some damage. Hell, you can take too many asprin or excedrin and do permanent damage, but they are not illegal!
 

imported_hscorpio

Golden Member
Sep 1, 2004
1,617
0
0
Originally posted by: meltdown75
the most adverse effect in my opinion is not health-related.

pot will sap you of your motivation and pretty much turn you into a hermit. potheads are creatures of habit - the routine becomes second nature and it can be hard to snap out of. however, in moderation, these effects will not occur. if you are lazy and have an addictive personality... watch out.


There's things going on here besides pot I think. Certain people that are anti-social or depressed can get drawn to and carried away with pot as a way to feel good and escape. But I know exactly what your saying as I've known people that ended up doing nothing but staying home and getting high all the time.
 

kitkat22

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2005
1,464
1,332
136
I'll admit bubble-bursting is a bit strong. My point out of all the articles was there is an effect, even in light-usage there is a negative effect. My guess it the gov't is waiting for absolute proof that marijuana usage is OK, because from what I'm seeing there is a lot of controversy.

piasabird: Let's decontrol murder and rape. It's a fallacy that people need to be controlled to protect them. Let's let all the seriel rapists and such out of jail. I'm sure they don't need to be controlled.
 
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