Let's talk about the enviroment

[Shuxclams]

As an avid Hunter and Fisherman I am always bothered when I see news items showing dramitic changes in populations of wildlife. One thing that disturbs me (Other than my favorite - the salmon river which BTW has nary a salmon in it anymore) is the massive decline in Shark Populations around the world... all species and in all oceans. Does this not mean anything? Is it weather? Is it overfishing?

http://www.eurocbc.org/sharks&suffer&population&crash_12feb2004page1477.html

http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DailyNews/sharks030117.html

http://www.npr.org/display_pages/features/feature_3223013.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/01/0116_030116_sharks.html

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/sharks/innews/sharkdeplet2003.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/3093363.stm

http://www.arabianwildlife.com/archive/vol2.1/shkles.htm



What are some of your thoughts? What particular causes or things have gotten your attention recently?


NoeCon's are welcome to post the usual "there isnt anything wrong" but please keep it thoughtful and thought-provoking.






SHUX

 

[imported_adamj]

I think its a combination of factors.. El Nino, Global Warming, overfishing, pollution etc. Whats even worse is that sharks are a keystone species and really illistrate whats happening to the rest of the oceans. And to see white tips disapearing so dramaticaly is just plain scary. The humans factors causing the extinction so to speak is really just a lack of respect for our natural environment. Generaly people see themselves as being detached from our environment, they're content with their fast food and television. When our environment goes to sh*t once and for all, those people will be the first to die.

 

[charrison]

Read an article not long ago that samon runs for the past couple of years have been near record highs.


Most of the samon you find in markets today is farm raised...:|

 

[Shuxclams]

Originally posted by: charrison
Read an article not long ago that samon runs for the past couple of years have been near record highs.


Most of the samon you find in markets today is farm raised...:|

charrison,

If you look closely at those numbers on Salmon run's you'll find out that 60-85% of the returning fish were farm raised depending on the waters they we're caught in. Record numbers or not it shows a net loss of native fish across the board. It doesnt appeal to me to go to Washington State on a fishing trip knowing that the fish I catch is likely some farm raised thing put there so I can catch it.....

There used to be Salmon runs even here in Los Angeles back in the early 1900's... now your lucky if you can get any in the open seas off Ventura... which happens less and less as well. Ditto for Albacore but nobody is sure why that happens. They disapearred for a couple years then came back as if nothing happened...





SHUX

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Shuxclams

Originally posted by: charrison
Read an article not long ago that samon runs for the past couple of years have been near record highs.


Most of the samon you find in markets today is farm raised...:|

charrison,

If you look closely at those numbers on Salmon run's you'll find out that 60-85% of the returning fish were farm raised depending on the waters they we're caught in. Record numbers or not it shows a net loss of native fish across the board. It doesnt appeal to me to go to Washington State on a fishing trip knowing that the fish I catch is likely some farm raised thing put there so I can catch it.....

There used to be Salmon runs even here in Los Angeles back in the early 1900's... now your lucky if you can get any in the open seas off Ventura... which happens less and less as well. Ditto for Albacore but nobody is sure why that happens. They disapearred for a couple years then came back as if nothing happened...





SHUX

Should samon be taken off the market?

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Shuxclams

Originally posted by: charrison
Read an article not long ago that samon runs for the past couple of years have been near record highs.


Most of the samon you find in markets today is farm raised...:|

charrison,

If you look closely at those numbers on Salmon run's you'll find out that 60-85% of the returning fish were farm raised depending on the waters they we're caught in. Record numbers or not it shows a net loss of native fish across the board. It doesnt appeal to me to go to Washington State on a fishing trip knowing that the fish I catch is likely some farm raised thing put there so I can catch it.....

There used to be Salmon runs even here in Los Angeles back in the early 1900's... now your lucky if you can get any in the open seas off Ventura... which happens less and less as well. Ditto for Albacore but nobody is sure why that happens. They disapearred for a couple years then came back as if nothing happened...





SHUX

Should samon be taken off the market?

I don't think fishing is the major reason for the Salmon's problems. I think it comes form Damns and other enviromental problems in the streams and rivers.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Shuxclams

Originally posted by: charrison
Read an article not long ago that samon runs for the past couple of years have been near record highs.


Most of the samon you find in markets today is farm raised...:|

charrison,

If you look closely at those numbers on Salmon run's you'll find out that 60-85% of the returning fish were farm raised depending on the waters they we're caught in. Record numbers or not it shows a net loss of native fish across the board. It doesnt appeal to me to go to Washington State on a fishing trip knowing that the fish I catch is likely some farm raised thing put there so I can catch it.....

There used to be Salmon runs even here in Los Angeles back in the early 1900's... now your lucky if you can get any in the open seas off Ventura... which happens less and less as well. Ditto for Albacore but nobody is sure why that happens. They disapearred for a couple years then came back as if nothing happened...





SHUX

Should samon be taken off the market?

I don't think fishing is the major reason for the Salmon's problems. I think it comes form Damns and other enviromental problems in the streams and rivers.

Should dams be removed and would be replace their power generation and floor control with?

 

[Shuxclams]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Shuxclams

Originally posted by: charrison
Read an article not long ago that samon runs for the past couple of years have been near record highs.


Most of the samon you find in markets today is farm raised...:|

charrison,

If you look closely at those numbers on Salmon run's you'll find out that 60-85% of the returning fish were farm raised depending on the waters they we're caught in. Record numbers or not it shows a net loss of native fish across the board. It doesnt appeal to me to go to Washington State on a fishing trip knowing that the fish I catch is likely some farm raised thing put there so I can catch it.....

There used to be Salmon runs even here in Los Angeles back in the early 1900's... now your lucky if you can get any in the open seas off Ventura... which happens less and less as well. Ditto for Albacore but nobody is sure why that happens. They disapearred for a couple years then came back as if nothing happened...





SHUX

Should samon be taken off the market?

I don't think fishing is the major reason for the Salmon's problems. I think it comes form Damns and other enviromental problems in the streams and rivers.

Should dams be removed and would be replace their power generation and floor control with?

There are always alternatives. Flood Control in the NW doesnt seem to be as pressing an issue as it would be in the Mid-West. As for Power, I havent looked that far into the amount of power it provides and what other alternatives there are.









SHUX

 

[Kerouactivist]

I think people screaming about the Salmon is a good thing but, I think people should really wise up to the fact that Salmon are a sport fish and their population is definitely not in dire straits compared to many fish relatively unknown to common folk out there....

Some argue that the Salmon fisheries screw up the environment because they overpopulate rivers with salmon thus screwing up the environment for the other critters in the river. Generally though, the Salmon fishery's are quite popular due to their percieved environmental effect and the $$$ of the sport fishing brought in to those states that have Salmon in their streams.

Apperently, the smaller fish, closer to the bottom of the food chain are better tell-tale signs of problems within a river/lake but, it seems like people generally care little about the smaller, minnow sized fish, when that is maybe where according to some efforts should be concentrated.
All this depends on who you talk to...I really think they are all important but, it comes down to how do you split up the resources you have to fight the good fight.

I'm not sure exactly where I stand on the issue, it is one that I'm trying to learn more about so I can make some sort of semi-educated opinon rather than just jumping the gun and pointing fingers.....

 

[Kerouactivist]

Also, I am generally a support of environmentally friendly programs but, they must be SUPER well thought out [L=http://www.smallmouth.org/MissouriOtters.html[/L]
Just another one of those things that I'm not quite sure of my opinon on but, you can definitely see that it wasn't well thought out.

 

[sandorski]

Need to differentiate things here:

1) There are Hatchery fish, which are fish Hatched in a Hatchery then released into the Wild

2) Farmed Fish, which are Hatched and raised to Maturity in Fishpens. These fish never leave their pens(unless they escape) and are increasingly where the Salmon you buy in a store or eat at a restaurant comes from.