Let's talk Keto

[HutchinsonJC]

I think a person can over do it in just about anything. I've given myself what they call an exertion headache from trying to probably lift too much weight haha. And you can drink too much water; that's a real thing. A lot of things that are healthy (like running), are only healthy in moderation! You can't really *live* a life of just running. You'll tear your body apart! The article doesn't seem to be really saying anything new to me. "You can over do it" is a real thing! The scarring on the heart was new information for me, but I guess it makes sense.

Anyway, not fond of this type of article structure, myself. The ones that entice you with a few details and then give the real link to the details behind a pay wall... ugh.

Health, weight, strength, etc is a combo of genes, what you consume, and your activities. An exact balance will be different for each person, but I think we know enough to have some idea of how to test ourselves of what we're each capable of, assuming a willingness to try!

Edit:
Hmmm, the guy who posted before me (who had like 3 posts) linked an article that had a bit of decent info, but then the bulk of it was pay walled; he asked what we thought. Looks like his post is gone now.

One quote said that "Too much cardio actually begins to add scar tissue to your heart and increases your rate of heart attack." I wonder if his linking to this article got him banned or if perhaps it was something else. I could relink from my browsing history, but I'll hold off.

 

[whm1974]

it looks like ketogenic diets poses a risk of ketoacidosis
https://www.healthline.com/health/type-2-diabetes-ketogenic-diet#risks

 

[mike8675309]

it looks like ketogenic diets poses a risk of ketoacidosis
https://www.healthline.com/health/type-2-diabetes-ketogenic-diet#risks

Only for those with poorly managed type 1 diabetes.

 

[crashtech]

Keto can actually be beneficial for Type 1 patients under controlled circumstances; Type 1 sufferers need to monitor their blood glucose carefully in all cases. Diabetic ketoacidosis is induced seemingly paradoxically from lack of insulin which should be being administered. DK is often a person's first sign that they have Type 1, and most cases are unrelated to keto diet, but to an illness or extended period without food.

Most cases of Type 2 are due to insulin resistance, btw, and not lack of production.

 

[TecHNooB]

I had similar results in the weight loss department but I think a lot of it is water. As soon as you carb up, you gain back half your loss instantly. Also, much weaker in the weight room on keto compared to carb diet but there are some insanely strong keto guys on youtube so the jury's still out.

 

[ArchAngel777]

High Protein, Low Carb, Low Fat for cutting works incredibly well. There is no special magic with it, except that it often kills hunger pangs, making it quite easy to stick too for longer periods of time. As a way of life... I find Keto too restrictive overall.

 

[RPD]

Wow a lot of bad information in here. I would encourage anyone to do their own research. I listened to this guy (https://vinnietortorich.com/) and got his free 24pg PDF on how to cut sugars and grains out of your diet. He labels it no sugar, no gains or NSNG. I personally loved his approach because it was simple, you don't have to count calories, use macros, weigh shit or follow some odd checklist, just remove those things from your diet and it works. I never dieted in my life, but after having 3 kids and seeing myself in photos with them I wasn't feeling the "dad bod".

I started gradually cutting carbs out where it was easy, no more free bread before dinner, no bun with burgers, no more beers (instead spirits on the rocks), no more pasta and/or pizza. I lost probably 15lbs just doing this over time and no other changes. Then about February of last year, after hearing and reading about how much success people had with it to dive in. The problem is people don't dive all in or cheat too often/much while trying it. You have to give it a solid 30 days, sugar is basically a drug to your body, if you cut it out of your life and go cold you will literally stop craving sweet (unhealthy) foods. I started paying attention to what was in food by reading labels and was surprised to see how much sugar and carbs are in almost every day items. Because of this, you have to really change how you eat. I will say if you don't like eggs in any shape or form, I can't imagine how to ever do NSNG or keto.

I had lost most of my weight before even finding out about keto, which I couldn't do because keto you have to count carbs and even meat has carbs in it. With NSNG (and keto I'm sure) you basically eat "approved" foods until you are satisfied. At the start you WILL consume more calories until your body gets use to it and you'll find yourself getting full of much smaller meal sizes. I was stable at my heaviest at 235lbs, now I try to keep at 195lbs, provided I don't shove dozens of cookies into my face every day its easy to do and maintain. I did get under 190lbs but went back to the gym for heavy lifting and am now putting on weight, slowly. At 235lbs I wore a 38-40 size pant and now can fit into 32. I hate buying clothes, but had to donate a TON of my work slacks, some suits and jackets because they looked ridiculous on me. I've had multiple blood tests as well and my cholesterol is on the low end of the spectrum, due to my family doctor thinking something was up with my thyroid, but after a slew of tests nothing came up, best guess was first blood test some how got messed up (had 3 more after, along with a ultrasound and CT/dye test).

TLDR - Keto works, really if you stay away from processed anything you should generally be OK, do you think cavemen or people living in midevil times consumed as many carbs or sugar as we do today? Anyone think we changed that drastically genetically that altering our diet to super carb and sugar heavy wasn't going to have all these adverse health issues we see everywhere now? Meat and veggies, everything else past that is fluff.

 

[mike8675309]

TLDR - Keto works, really if you stay away from processed anything you should generally be OK, do you think cavemen or people living in midevil times consumed as many carbs or sugar as we do today? Anyone think we changed that drastically genetically that altering our diet to super carb and sugar heavy wasn't going to have all these adverse health issues we see everywhere now? Meat and veggies, everything else past that is fluff.

I wish that Keto folks would quit using such a silly concept about cavemen or middle age time or where ever you think you need to go to support your low carb life. If you only want to live until the age of 30, just keep eating like a caveman.

 

[RPD]

I wish that Keto folks would quit using such a silly concept about cavemen or middle age time or where ever you thing you need to go to support your low carb life. If you only want to live until the age of 30, just keep eating like a caveman.

Because advances in science/health has directly changed our genetics and dietary needs, right?

 

[Muse]

Meat and veggies, everything else past that is fluff.

What happened to my fresh fruit?

 

[HutchinsonJC]

Because advances in science/health has directly changed our genetics and dietary needs, right?

Because people still eat "suggested calories", don't hunt for food, sit in their chair at work, sit on the couch at home.

 

[RPD]

What happened to my fresh fruit?

Fluff, basically it's sugar.

 

[Muse]

Fluff, basically it's sugar.

Citations? Never heard that anywhere before. Lots of fiber in your fresh fruits, it keeps your body from gyrating sugar levels which cause you to crave more food than you need, screw up your metabolism and eventually can lead to diabetes. Also, there are the other nutrients in fresh fruit, minerals, vitamins, etc.

 

[RPD]

Citations? Never heard that anywhere before. Lots of fiber in your fresh fruits, it keeps your body from gyrating sugar levels which cause you to crave more food than you need, screw up your metabolism and eventually can lead to diabetes. Also, there are the other nutrients in fresh fruit, minerals, vitamins, etc.

What can you get, that you need, from fruits you can't from vegetables?

 

[ArchAngel777]

What can you get, that you need, from fruits you can't from vegetables?

Variety.

 

[Muse]

Variety.

And I like me some nuts and seeds too.

I'm wont to quote my fave poet (William Blake)...

From The Marriage of Heaven and Hell:

The rat, the mouse, the fox, the rabbet; watch the roots; the lion, the tyger, the horse, the elephant, watch the fruits.
- - - -
I just ate a banana and a navel orange! Great!

 

[crashtech]

It probably ought to be obvious that different people have different dietary needs, but a lot of us tend to insist that our way is THE way. Science will start catching up at some point and use our genomes and physical condition to tailor individualized dietary recommendations instead of the one size fits all advice that prevails today.

 

[RPD]

It probably ought to be obvious that different people have different dietary needs, but a lot of us tend to insist that our way is THE way. Science will start catching up at some point and use our genomes and physical condition to tailor individualized dietary recommendations instead of the one size fits all advice that prevails today.

Yes, but for most people cutting out carbs and sugars works. The fact it's been documented to help stop seizures in people by simply changing their diet to strict keto is huge.

 

[crashtech]

Yes, but for most people cutting out carbs and sugars works. The fact it's been documented to help stop seizures in people by simply changing their diet to strict keto is huge.

To be more specific, of those who tend towards obesity, a great number will respond well to low carb, since carb intolerance/insulin resistance is prevalent in that group and is a major driver of the obesity epidemic. I am in that group, but still resist sweeping claims about the appropriateness of low carb for everyone.

 

[Muse]

Yes, but for most people cutting out carbs and sugars works. The fact it's been documented to help stop seizures in people by simply changing their diet to strict keto is huge.

I'm onboard with the cutting out sugars are carbs, weight control is easier when you do that and I've heard from a pretty good source (PBS TV doctor) that sugar (at least substantial sugar) is majorly involved with chronic inflammation. However, he wasn't talking about sugar from fruit, he was talking about sucrose, basically.

Edit: For a super whomping anti-sugar wake up call, I very much recommend the documentary Fed Up:

This discusses that and 4 other anti-sugar documentaries.

What's said there about Fed Up:

Brought to you by the producer of An Inconvenient Truth, Fed Up aims to pull back the curtain on the sugar industry once and for all. The documentary claims that everything we’ve been told about food and exercise for the past 30 years is dead wrong.

Revealing one alarming fact after another, Fed Up leaves you with no choice but to view the food you eat differently. Chew on this for a moment. There are 600,000 food items in America and 80 percent of them have added sugar. How on earth are you supposed to avoid the stuff?

Once you know the truth about your food you’ll not only be Fed Up, any desire you may have had for a sugary treat will be long gone.

 

[balloonshark]

There is nothing wrong with whole food carbs. Unfortunately all carbs get a bad rap now thanks to all these low carb diets.

 

[WelshBloke]

So.. is there a reasonable argument as to why everyone shouldn't be eating this way?

Well yeah. Mainly because I'll cut you if you try to take my pasta away.

 

[killster1]

While I definitely see Keto as a positive solution for short term weight loss, there are a few reasons it should NOT be the standard diet for the average human being:

1. It's not an ideal way for the human body to operate. It's like running off a generator full time when there's plenty of clean power and reliability off the grid. There is a reason the human body will always, always, always resort to burning carbs before burning fat; it's easier, and it's cleaner. You can be in Ketosis for a year, and if you eat a week of carbs, you will come out of Ketosis every time. Ketosis raises blood acidity, and while there are some who operate in this just fine, for many it leads to a plethora of unwanted side-effects like loss of bone density, increased rate of kidney stones, and other unwanted side-effects that occur when your body is flushing sodium, calcium, magnesium, and potassium from the bloodstream at a rapid rate. It's not all roses and butterflies for most people long term.

2. Many of the foods required to sustain Ketosis (ie, meat) are very high in cholesterol and very low in other necessary vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, and most importantly, fiber. Like it or not, increased rates of cardiovascular disease, renal failure, and cancers will result in a population long term. And like it or not, you will have to pay for that in your insurance rates.

3. For most people, the Keto diet is way too limiting. You joke about loving Avocados, and I do too, but you won't be saying that in a few months when you've eaten hundreds of them. It gets old.

4. And most importantly, and this should be a key factor into why Keto is not the best diet for human beings; it is not environmentally sustainable for the human race to operate on a Keto diet. I'm only saying this as a comparison, not out of personal preference, but to sustain a single person on a Keto diet requires 30-40x the land needed to sustain a single person on a purely plant based diet. Add in the extra fossil fuel requirement necessary for Keto, and you have a diet that, if the entire human population had to go on tomorrow, would strip all remaining forest land, existing soil, and water reserves in a very, very short period of time. We are already doing this at a rapid rate, and that's without Keto, but Keto would only make it worse.

5. Final reason Keto is not ideal; beer. Nuff said.

so why cant you build a multi story feedlot? Like a skyscraper full of chicken coops? Why cant you pull water from the ocean and desalinate with solar electricity / hydro electric? im not saying its healthy to eat all meat i think its so dumb unless its a quick weight loss program.. but i hear about how the world is going to run out of land and i wonder if it could possibly be true.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Necro (sort of) bump.

I just started getting into Keto - and although it's VERY popular right now, part of what intrigued me is that this isn't so much a diet but rather ketosis is... well... science of what your body does when it relys on fat instead of carbs. It's definitely going to be hard for me, especially because I fucking love beers - which has been one of my main sources of weight gain recently.

There is obviously still heavy debate on things - the Keto community seems to want to indicate that fats do not have an affect on your cholesterol (healthy ones, non-trans at least). The jury is still out on that one methinks.

One of my main draws to appeal is the overall good news I hear of once your body switches having more energy. That's been my biggest problems with diets in the past is that ultimately I lack energy and feed off carbs. The next draw is as of my first week, I can totally tell that my body just doesn't care to consume as much anymore. I can have a handful of walnuts or 2 spoons of peanut butter and my body is just like "Okay, I'm good". I don't need a sandwich with chips anymore.

Anyone have experience with cheat days? That's definitely one thing I'm still learning about. Is that something you do rarely (6+ months), semi-rarely (3+ months) or often (once a week or month)?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

There's a reason so many health professionals think you need a balanced diet! And while I don't think we've got anyone that knows what the perfect diet is, exactly (and all our bodies/metabolisms are different anyway), I tend to think that you should probably try to have some kind of a balanced diet unless a health professional you trust and can back with specific reasons for your situation, tells you otherwise.

After the food guide pyramid, cereal is healthy for you, and fats are bad for you debacle that have all since been entirely debunked - it's pretty easy to see why one would be skeptical with initial reactions from "health professionals" (very broad term, can mean "nutritionists", FDA officials, or qualified doctors of a variety of specialties).