Let's talk NBA

[HendrixFan]

Yep. Houston can only offer $60, so holding out for it imo was a douche move.

Everything I have read says that Houston can and will offer 5 yrs at $80M. The biggest concern for an athlete in the NBA is contract length. Unlike the NFL they have guaranteed contracts, so front loading doesn't matter. Total value is king. A blown ACL can take you out of the league in no time, or at least chop down your value to veteran minimum.

All that said, I have said since last year's NBA playoffs thread that I would take Ibaka over Harden ten times out of ten. They simply couldn't afford both, not if they wanted a well rounded roster of role players and bench guys.

 

[Miramonti]

Everything I have read says that Houston can and will offer 5 yrs at $80M. The biggest concern for an athlete in the NBA is contract length. Unlike the NFL they have guaranteed contracts, so front loading doesn't matter. Total value is king. A blown ACL can take you out of the league in no time, or at least chop down your value to veteran minimum.

All that said, I have said since last year's NBA playoffs thread that I would take Ibaka over Harden ten times out of ten. They simply couldn't afford both, not if they wanted a well rounded roster of role players and bench guys.

I should have linked the article on espn that I had just read because now I can't find it, there are too many. Unless they did a sign and trade, I think the extra year is what the initial team can give as an advantage/incentive for the player to sign with their current team instead of going to free agency. It's probably why Howard isn't signing an extension with LA yet because there's no difference between signing now and signing after the season (in terms of contract size), because that extra year incentive was lost when he was traded.

They're saying Houston will try to sign him to an extension asap, so we'll know for sure soon...

/edit: here's a source suggesting 4yr/$60m was his agent's goal.

 

[Miramonti]

Shelving Mack, former Butler star, ejected from Wizards roster. I thought he was going to be pretty good.

 

[bigrash]

Let's go Knicks!

 

[HendrixFan]

They're saying Houston will try to sign him to an extension asap, so we'll know for sure soon...

/edit: here's a source suggesting 4yr/$60m was his agent's goal.

From a cbssports article:

James Harden: The Thunder's top dollar was reportedly four years, $55.5 million. Just a $4.5 million short of the max they could give, because Russell Westbrook already has the five-year extension and you're only allowed one per CBA. Instead, Harden will almost assuredly get a a five-year, near $80 million deal from Houston. So basically, he got a nice little $25 million extra for getting traded. Not bad.

So there does seem to be quite a bit of confusion floating around about the whole contract situation. Tons of journalists working this and non can get to the bottom of it apparently.

I would figure that part of his desire to leave was feeling slighted that they offered an extension to Ibaka before him.

 

[bigpimpatl]

OKC, again, raped another team silly.

Let's be honest, does a Lin/Harden/Asik/Parsons combination equate to anything more than a 6th or 7th seed?

OKC got TWO 1st round picks (one most likely lottery from Toronto), another first round pick (jeremy lamb) and a nice expiring contract and serviceable player in Kevin Martin.

 

[bigpimpatl]

by push for more competitive balance you mean to rigg the game....

huh? I thought the new CBA made some effort to address the huge gap between the few and many. One is the harsher luxury tax penalties. Two the higher minimum floor. And the one max contract per team.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

huh? I thought the new CBA made some effort to address the huge gap between the few and many. One is the harsher luxury tax penalties. Two the higher minimum floor. And the one max contract per team.

They're going to need some more serious measures to address this. Professional basketball has the least parity of all the major professional sports, and it has basically forever. Look at who has won championships over the past 30+ years; Boston, LA, San Antonio, Chicago, Houston and Detroit won several each, Philly and Dallas won one each, Miami two, and beyond that, you have to go back to 1979 to find an NBA champion from a different city. Oklahoma City has the best odds to change that this year (the irony being that the Sonics won in 1979, so depending on how you track teams, it actually moves the date back for multiple championship teams), but the Harden deal hurts them in the immediate term (although I think Kevin Martin can help them in the long run when he adjusts to the team).

I have no idea what those measures would be, but everything they've tried has amounted to a whole lot of "the least parity of all major sports," so clearly drastic measures are needed.

 

[QueBert]

Nash running the point will work on any team. Period. What player in the NBA doesn't like shooting wide open jumpers? Kobe is either going to get wide open shots or Nash is gonna hit him right on the money as Kobe makes his cut. That's not even mentioning the sick alley-oops that Nash is gonna get to Howard. Oh they're now playing Nash for the pass.. Bad move, Nash is drilling a 3 in your face.

The LA Lakers are your next NBA champs.

The Lakers went 0-9 in the pre-season, has that ever been done? I don't care if Kobe was out. If they're going to rely that greatly they don't have a chance in hell to win shit. They have a terrible coach and tossing a bunch of random good players together doesn't lead to a title. I'm calling it now, they'll be LUCKY to make it past the 1st round of the play offs. I'm still a Celtics fan to the core, but the Heat's gonna slaughter this year. James is over the whatever jitters he had up until last years playoffs. I predict a better season for him this year than last. And the previous season was he MVP + easily one of the best of any player ever. Even if Wade throws out his knee and doesn't play much, they're still not a beatable team.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

The Lakers went 0-9 in the pre-season, has that ever been done? I don't care if Kobe was out. If they're going to rely that greatly they don't have a chance in hell to win shit. They have a terrible coach and tossing a bunch of random good players together doesn't lead to a title. I'm calling it now, they'll be LUCKY to make it past the 1st round of the play offs. I'm still a Celtics fan to the core, but the Heat's gonna slaughter this year. James is over the whatever jitters he had up until last years playoffs. I predict a better season for him this year than last. And the previous season was he MVP + easily one of the best of any player ever. Even if Wade throws out his knee and doesn't play much, they're still not a beatable team.

How was that random? They bought in each player to their natural positions and upgraded both of them. It also lets Gasol play PF the way he should be as well.

 

[tygeezy]

Orlando couldn't manage to get one lottery pick for howard. Okc trades harden out of nowhere and gets a what amounts to two lottery picks plus the farm. Some teams consistently make good moves (okc, san antonio) and the rest of the front offices in this league seems to be three steps behind. Lakers don't count because they are gift wrapped every player they ever want (sans chris paul)

 

[QueBert]

How was that random? They bought in each player to their natural positions and upgraded both of them. It also lets Gasol play PF the way he should be as well.

which is why they went 0-9, this is simple a more thought out Malone & Payton venture. Nash has 2 seasons left in him. Kobe's not getting any younger, and even if Howard stays injury free. That only leaves them 1 or 2 seasons to get their shit together. And by the time Nash is ready to go Kobe will either be close behind or he'll be playing far less effectively to where he isn't really a threat Think Shaq in CLE. Seems like the brass in LA was hoping for a short tern run that'll result in a ring. I remember how well that worked when they tried it with Karl & Gary. This time around it isn't much different. When Nash & Kobe are gone I don't see LA being able to build a team around Howard.

Lakers are done stick a fork in em, I never thought I'd say this but imho the Clippers have a better shot at winning a title than the Lakers do.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

which is why they went 0-9, this is simple a more thought out Malone & Payton venture. Nash has 2 seasons left in him. Kobe's not getting any younger, and even if Howard stays injury free. That only leaves them 1 or 2 seasons to get their shit together. And by the time Nash is ready to go Kobe will either be close behind or he'll be playing far less effectively to where he isn't really a threat Think Shaq in CLE. Seems like the brass in LA was hoping for a short tern run that'll result in a ring. I remember how well that worked when they tried it with Karl & Gary. This time around it isn't much different. When Nash & Kobe are gone I don't see LA being able to build a team around Howard.

Lakers are done stick a fork in em, I never thought I'd say this but imho the Clippers have a better shot at winning a title than the Lakers do.

Yeah that Malone/Payton adventure was a sure failure. Losing in the finals is such a failure of a season. Not to mention Malone was never healthy in the finals.

Clippers better shot at title than Lakers? You're not capable of having a real basketball discussion so I won't waste my time.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Bad move on OKC IMO. They downgraded talent on a team capable of winning a title. I don't care how you slice it. Bad move.

They could have kept Harden for the year see what happens and still get some value for him in a sign and trade at next offseason. Look at what the idiot GMs have been doing this last offseason. You don't think one of those idiots gives up some draft picks for Harden?

 

[Stifko]

Let's go Knicks!

yeah now with Rasheed!

 

[dougp]

Bad move on OKC IMO. They downgraded talent on a team capable of winning a title. I don't care how you slice it. Bad move.

They could have kept Harden for the year see what happens and still get some value for him in a sign and trade at next offseason. Look at what the idiot GMs have been doing this last offseason. You don't think one of those idiots gives up some draft picks for Harden?

They weren't going to pay Harden that much money to come off the bench, period. Harden is a good player, but he was the third option on that team. He'll now be walking onto a team as the first or second option, which is completely different without a player like Durant and Lin isn't anything like Westbrook.

The problem with keeping Harden for the year is he could have simply walked, and they'd get NO value from him.

 

[preslove]

Whose picks did OKC get? One from Toronto and who else?

 

[cganesh75]

its a great move by OKC. they did downgrade a bit for this year, but they put themselves in better position to stay in hunt for next several years. they have very good draft picks and salary flexibility for coming years.

Houston was offering (allegedly) similar deal to orlando for Dwight.

 

[dougp]

Well, who says that Kevin Martin is really a downgrade to Harden? We've never seen him in that utility/support role - he might thrive, he has the shooting ability to pull it off. Not the "defender" that Harden was, though.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I still contend that there was value to be had next offseason in a sign and trade and you have Harden this year for a title run. There was no need to panic and do the deal right now IMO.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

its a great move by OKC. they did downgrade a bit for this year, but they put themselves in better position to stay in hunt for next several years. they have very good draft picks and salary flexibility for coming years.

Houston was offering (allegedly) similar deal to orlando for Dwight.

Salary flexibility for years? Between Durant, Westbrook, Ebaka that is what like 80%+ of their cap space?
Draft picks are a dime a dozen especially outside of the top ten.

 

[Red Storm]

When Heat, Laker, and Spurs fans are all happier post trade, you know it wasn't a good move for OKC's title contention. Kevin Martin can score but he is an atrocious defender. Harden was both more efficient on offense and also a serviceable defender.

Just a bad move by OKC. When you have a chance to win a championship, you go for it. That's the whole point in sports is it not?

 

[dougp]

I still contend that there was value to be had next offseason in a sign and trade and you have Harden this year for a title run. There was no need to panic and do the deal right now IMO.

Here's the thing, there's never a guarantee with doing a S&T when a contract expires. Generally when that's done, a player is moving to a contender team and the team that does the trade goes into rebuilding, like the Heat and Cavs with LBJ. Nobody is foolish enough to believe OKC will be transitioning if they trade Harden, so they can all bypass and go to bidding or S&T with a non-contending team.

When Heat, Laker, and Spurs fans are all happier post trade, you know it wasn't a good move for OKC's title contention. Kevin Martin can score but he is an atrocious defender. Harden was both more efficient on offense and also a serviceable defender.

Just a bad move by OKC. When you have a chance to win a championship, you go for it. That's the whole point in sports is it not?

I think it was a good trade for a GM like Presti who knows how to capitalize off of the draft. As for Harden on defense, keep in mind that he traditionally played second string players and loved to flop to get the calls. He's like a second coming of Manu - so who knows how Martin will do with a good coach and staff, he can be taught to flop as well.

 

[vi edit]

So...about 8 possessions into the LA vs Dallas game. So far Nash has had about 3 touches on the ball after bringing it past the front court.

Hmmm...

 

[Miramonti]

League pass free 10/30-11/6

Of course day 1 and already 2 of the top 3 games are only available as audio...