lewis vs Klitschko

[Thraxen]

Shaq? WTF? Shaq can't even shoot the damn ball. He's just a huge genetic freak. If the refs wouldn't allow him to simply push people out of the way with his big ass he wouldn't be able to do a damn thing.

 

[josphII]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: josphII

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I think Lewis is top ten, but for the reasons stated here previously (size, no contenders in his era) I wouldn't put him top 5. I liken him to Shaq: Both are great, both have size never seen before, and both do not have a measuring stick to compare against. Oh and did I mention, both are arrogant d!ckh3ads?

ewing, olajuwan, mutombo, david robinson, duncan, morning... what the fvck are you talking about?

damn its obvious from this thread that you people dont know shlt about boxing

Ok, what were Shaq's numbers against the Admiral in the last series? Didn't think so, come again!! Shaq, in his prime, has no equal in the NBA. Mutombo got OWNED by Shaq when LA played Philly a couple years ago in the Finals. Thanks, come again. Olajuwan played against Shaq when Shaq was a rookie, so that doesn't count. By the time Shaq had been in his prime, Hakeem had retired and Ewing was in his last year. Alonzo, he's not even playing!!! Head to head, Shaq still owns Zo, sorry. Duncan?? He's a Power forward, not a TRUE CENTER. Do you seriously think TD can guard Shaq for a whole game??? Right, lay off the crack pipe buddy. Shaq is the most dominant center in the league and has no equal, and hasn't had one for the past 3-4 years. Sure, if you compare Shaq to Ewing, Hakeem, or the Admiral IN THEIR PRIMES then it would be great. That's not the case.

i got news for you buddy, statistically speaking shaq's best season was when he was still in Orlando. And everybody I mentioned all had their best years after shaq was in the league and how often did any one of those players ever get the better of shaq?? and, duh, of course mutombo, the defensive player of the year and arguably the best defensive center of all time, got owned by shaq a couple of years ago - becuase he's THAT good. the fact is your argument is pathetic. you argue that shaq isnt great because he has no equal, despite the fact that he has taken every great center over the past 15 years, including the whos who of the nba's 50 greatest players, and owned them all.

 

[NeoV]

lets not turn this into an NBA thread...I'm not even going to comment on Shaq here, but I don't think the comparison of Lewis and his size vs other heavyweights compared to Shaq and his size vs other centers in the NBA...Shaq's difference is much more than the difference between Lewis and all the other heavyweights.

There is a clear trend in HW boxing for more and more bigger fighters...look at all the HW's close to, or bigger than Lewis - both Klitschko brothers, Michael Grant, "mount" Whitaker, R.Bowe (before his mind went AWOL) and many others - while it is true that Lewis hasn't fought all of them, I think they are physically comparable to Lewis, whereas the NBA has no one comparable to Shaq - stricly based on size/strength.

Lewis would beat Ali? I don't know about that.

You can't put Tyson in the top 5 ahead of Lewis - Tyson may have been spectacular with his knockouts, but he fought a bigger collection of bums than Lewis has fought up to this point...Razor Ruddick probably gave Tyson his best fight, prior to Buster Douglass mauling him, and Razor was a stiff with only a big uppercut....

Last comment - Klitschko was in big trouble in that 6th round, those two uppercuts took a lot out of him. The rest of the fight could have gone either way IMO.

Love to see a rematch.

for all of you saying how much you didn't like Lewis for his post-fight comments, keep in mind that he is probably the most 'normal' HW champ in a long, long time, and for the most part is a good guy.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: josphII

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: josphII

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I think Lewis is top ten, but for the reasons stated here previously (size, no contenders in his era) I wouldn't put him top 5. I liken him to Shaq: Both are great, both have size never seen before, and both do not have a measuring stick to compare against. Oh and did I mention, both are arrogant d!ckh3ads?

ewing, olajuwan, mutombo, david robinson, duncan, morning... what the fvck are you talking about?

damn its obvious from this thread that you people dont know shlt about boxing

Ok, what were Shaq's numbers against the Admiral in the last series? Didn't think so, come again!! Shaq, in his prime, has no equal in the NBA. Mutombo got OWNED by Shaq when LA played Philly a couple years ago in the Finals. Thanks, come again. Olajuwan played against Shaq when Shaq was a rookie, so that doesn't count. By the time Shaq had been in his prime, Hakeem had retired and Ewing was in his last year. Alonzo, he's not even playing!!! Head to head, Shaq still owns Zo, sorry. Duncan?? He's a Power forward, not a TRUE CENTER. Do you seriously think TD can guard Shaq for a whole game??? Right, lay off the crack pipe buddy. Shaq is the most dominant center in the league and has no equal, and hasn't had one for the past 3-4 years. Sure, if you compare Shaq to Ewing, Hakeem, or the Admiral IN THEIR PRIMES then it would be great. That's not the case.

i got news for you buddy, statistically speaking shaq's best season was when he was still in Orlando. And everybody I mentioned all had their best years after shaq was in the league and how often did any one of those players ever get the better of shaq?? and, duh, of course mutombo, the defensive player of the year and arguably the best defensive center of all time, got owned by shaq a couple of years ago - becuase he's THAT good. the fact is your argument is pathetic. you argue that shaq isnt great because he has no equal, despite the fact that he has taken every great center over the past 15 years, including the whos who of the nba's 50 greatest players, and owned them all.

Shaq wasn't in his prime until he was with the Lakers, anyone can tell u that. Statistically, he has been consistent his whole career on avg pts/rebounds, so although that can be considered an indicator, it means nothing for this argument... I think the best indicator was when Shaq won his awards was when he was in his prime, for example:

-Won the 1999-2000 IBM Award, determined by a computerized rating that measures a player's overall contribution to a team
-Three-time NBA Finals MVP after leading the Lakers to back-to-back-to-back NBA Finals victories (2000, 2001, 2002)
-Voted the 1999-2000 Most Valuable Player (regular season) by media
-Two-time NBA All-Defensive Second Team selection (1999-2000, 2000-01)

And the most telling of all:
-Four-time All-NBA First Team selection (1997-98, 1999-2000, 2000-01, 2001-02), two-time All-NBA Second Team selection (1994-95, 1998-99) and three-time All-NBA Third Team selection (1993-94, 1995-96, 1996-97)

Shaq only made NBA first team WITH THE LAKERS. He made 2nd and 3rd Team with the Orlando Magic, further proving that he was not in his prime when Hakeem/Ewing/Zo were.

Soooo how is my argument "pathetic"? Shaq, in his prime, did not have an equal. Ewing had Hakeem, Wilt Chamberlain had Oscar, Bird had Magic, Ali had Frazier, etc. An athlete who is so dominant with nobody to challenge them, like Lennox Lewis or Shaq, have to prove their "GREATEST OF ALL TIME" Status moreso than someone who has an equal. For example, who was MJ's rival in the NBA??? That's right, nobody. But look at MJ's legacy, SIX RINGS!!! If Shaq can win 6 championships with Kobe (MJ did have Scotty), then Shaq will be enshrined as one of the best of all time, yes. Until then, he's just another Hall of Famer: good, but not one of the greatest.

EDIT: All in all, in order to be considered the greatest of all time, some type of monumental obstacle had to be overcome: Ali beat Frazier for example... it has to be so monumental, in fact, that it would be called a "classic", or something that people would be willing to watch again, IT WAS THAT GOOD. Like Ali/Frazier, Magic/Bird, Tyson/ANYONE HE KNOCKED THE F OUT lol, etc... Who is willing to watch Lennox or Shaq replays? How many "classics" will you see on say, ESPN Classic with Shaq or Lennox? What monumental obstacles did they have to overcome to get where they're at today that makes them the greatest of all time? Catch the drift? Although, some would be willing to argue that this past fight could become a "classic" depending on future confrontations with Klischko

 

[hawkeye81x]

Go SP33Demon. You the preacher man!

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: hawkeye81x
Go SP33Demon. You the preacher man!

Now added an Edit for your reading pleasure

 

[josphII]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: josphII

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: josphII

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I think Lewis is top ten, but for the reasons stated here previously (size, no contenders in his era) I wouldn't put him top 5. I liken him to Shaq: Both are great, both have size never seen before, and both do not have a measuring stick to compare against. Oh and did I mention, both are arrogant d!ckh3ads?

ewing, olajuwan, mutombo, david robinson, duncan, morning... what the fvck are you talking about?

damn its obvious from this thread that you people dont know shlt about boxing

Ok, what were Shaq's numbers against the Admiral in the last series? Didn't think so, come again!! Shaq, in his prime, has no equal in the NBA. Mutombo got OWNED by Shaq when LA played Philly a couple years ago in the Finals. Thanks, come again. Olajuwan played against Shaq when Shaq was a rookie, so that doesn't count. By the time Shaq had been in his prime, Hakeem had retired and Ewing was in his last year. Alonzo, he's not even playing!!! Head to head, Shaq still owns Zo, sorry. Duncan?? He's a Power forward, not a TRUE CENTER. Do you seriously think TD can guard Shaq for a whole game??? Right, lay off the crack pipe buddy. Shaq is the most dominant center in the league and has no equal, and hasn't had one for the past 3-4 years. Sure, if you compare Shaq to Ewing, Hakeem, or the Admiral IN THEIR PRIMES then it would be great. That's not the case.

i got news for you buddy, statistically speaking shaq's best season was when he was still in Orlando. And everybody I mentioned all had their best years after shaq was in the league and how often did any one of those players ever get the better of shaq?? and, duh, of course mutombo, the defensive player of the year and arguably the best defensive center of all time, got owned by shaq a couple of years ago - becuase he's THAT good. the fact is your argument is pathetic. you argue that shaq isnt great because he has no equal, despite the fact that he has taken every great center over the past 15 years, including the whos who of the nba's 50 greatest players, and owned them all.

Shaq wasn't in his prime until he was with the Lakers, anyone can tell u that. Statistically, he has been consistent his whole career on avg pts/rebounds, so although that can be considered an indicator, it means nothing for this argument... I think the best indicator was when Shaq won his awards was when he was in his prime, for example:

-Won the 1999-2000 IBM Award, determined by a computerized rating that measures a player's overall contribution to a team
-Three-time NBA Finals MVP after leading the Lakers to back-to-back-to-back NBA Finals victories (2000, 2001, 2002)
-Voted the 1999-2000 Most Valuable Player (regular season) by media
-Two-time NBA All-Defensive Second Team selection (1999-2000, 2000-01)

And the most telling of all:
-Four-time All-NBA First Team selection (1997-98, 1999-2000, 2000-01, 2001-02), two-time All-NBA Second Team selection (1994-95, 1998-99) and three-time All-NBA Third Team selection (1993-94, 1995-96, 1996-97)

Shaq only made NBA first team WITH THE LAKERS. He made 2nd and 3rd Team with the Orlando Magic, further proving that he was not in his prime when Hakeem/Ewing/Zo were.

Soooo how is my argument "pathetic"? Shaq, in his prime, did not have an equal. Ewing had Hakeem, Wilt Chamberlain had Oscar, Bird had Magic, Ali had Frazier, etc. An athlete who is so dominant with nobody to challenge them, like Lennox Lewis or Shaq, have to prove their "GREATEST OF ALL TIME" Status moreso than someone who has an equal. For example, who was MJ's rival in the NBA??? That's right, nobody. But look at MJ's legacy, SIX RINGS!!! If Shaq can win 6 championships with Kobe (MJ did have Scotty), then Shaq will be enshrined as one of the best of all time, yes. Until then, he's just another Hall of Famer: good, but not one of the greatest.

EDIT: All in all, in order to be considered the greatest of all time, some type of monumental obstacle had to be overcome: Ali beat Frazier for example... it has to be so monumental, in fact, that it would be called a "classic", or something that people would be willing to watch again, IT WAS THAT GOOD. Like Ali/Frazier, Magic/Bird, Tyson/ANYONE HE KNOCKED THE F OUT lol, etc... Who is willing to watch Lennox or Shaq replays? How many "classics" will you see on say, ESPN Classic with Shaq or Lennox? What monumental obstacles did they have to overcome to get where they're at today that makes them the greatest of all time? Catch the drift? Although, some would be willing to argue that this past fight could become a "classic" depending on future confrontations with Klischko

your argument has so many holes its not even funny. by your definition jordan cant be considered great either because when he was at his best (winning 6 titles in 8 years) there wasnt a comparable player to him, right?? oh wait because he was THAT much better he IS great, right? well i got news for you Shaq IS that much better than everybody else. and your argument is pathetic because even when shaq was in orlando, not in his prime by your calculations, he dominated the field.

How many "classics" will you see on say, ESPN Classic with Shaq

you dont watch much tv do you? '00 wcf game 7, 2001 RECORD setting playoff run going 15-1 and utterly destroying everybody in their path, 2002 wcf vs kings

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: NeoV
lets not turn this into an NBA thread...I'm not even going to comment on Shaq here, but I don't think the comparison of Lewis and his size vs other heavyweights compared to Shaq and his size vs other centers in the NBA...Shaq's difference is much more than the difference between Lewis and all the other heavyweights.

There is a clear trend in HW boxing for more and more bigger fighters...look at all the HW's close to, or bigger than Lewis - both Klitschko brothers, Michael Grant, "mount" Whitaker, R.Bowe (before his mind went AWOL) and many others - while it is true that Lewis hasn't fought all of them, I think they are physically comparable to Lewis, whereas the NBA has no one comparable to Shaq - stricly based on size/strength.

Lewis would beat Ali? I don't know about that.

You can't put Tyson in the top 5 ahead of Lewis - Tyson may have been spectacular with his knockouts, but he fought a bigger collection of bums than Lewis has fought up to this point...Razor Ruddick probably gave Tyson his best fight, prior to Buster Douglass mauling him, and Razor was a stiff with only a big uppercut....

Last comment - Klitschko was in big trouble in that 6th round, those two uppercuts took a lot out of him. The rest of the fight could have gone either way IMO.

Love to see a rematch.

for all of you saying how much you didn't like Lewis for his post-fight comments, keep in mind that he is probably the most 'normal' HW champ in a long, long time, and for the most part is a good guy.

Tyson was a fighter not a boxer so I would not classify him in the top 15 either.

As for Lewis wiping the mat with Ali. Lewis would have 30+ pounds on Ali. You just can't make up for that weight difference. When Ali was his best he would have been giving up 40 pounds to Lewis. The only physical advantage Ali has over Lewis is their fist size. Ali had abnormally large fists.

The only thing that I think would be in Ali's corner is that he could take a punch. Ali took the hardest and biggest punches around. Lewis has proven that he can't take a punch.

Overall I just think that Lewis is just that much bigger and is skilled enough that would destroy Ali if they fought(each in their prime).

This pretty much is the same reason that I think Roy Jones Jr. will get killed by Lewis. The only way Lewis loses to Jones or Klitschko is when he doesn't take them seriously.

I so wanted Klitschko to knocked his punk ass out too.

 

[HarryAngel]

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: NeoV
lets not turn this into an NBA thread...I'm not even going to comment on Shaq here, but I don't think the comparison of Lewis and his size vs other heavyweights compared to Shaq and his size vs other centers in the NBA...Shaq's difference is much more than the difference between Lewis and all the other heavyweights.

There is a clear trend in HW boxing for more and more bigger fighters...look at all the HW's close to, or bigger than Lewis - both Klitschko brothers, Michael Grant, "mount" Whitaker, R.Bowe (before his mind went AWOL) and many others - while it is true that Lewis hasn't fought all of them, I think they are physically comparable to Lewis, whereas the NBA has no one comparable to Shaq - stricly based on size/strength.

Lewis would beat Ali? I don't know about that.

You can't put Tyson in the top 5 ahead of Lewis - Tyson may have been spectacular with his knockouts, but he fought a bigger collection of bums than Lewis has fought up to this point...Razor Ruddick probably gave Tyson his best fight, prior to Buster Douglass mauling him, and Razor was a stiff with only a big uppercut....

Last comment - Klitschko was in big trouble in that 6th round, those two uppercuts took a lot out of him. The rest of the fight could have gone either way IMO.

Love to see a rematch.

for all of you saying how much you didn't like Lewis for his post-fight comments, keep in mind that he is probably the most 'normal' HW champ in a long, long time, and for the most part is a good guy.

Tyson was a fighter not a boxer so I would not classify him in the top 15 either.

As for Lewis wiping the mat with Ali. Lewis would have 30+ pounds on Ali. You just can't make up for that weight difference. When Ali was his best he would have been giving up 40 pounds to Lewis. The only physical advantage Ali has over Lewis is their fist size. Ali had abnormally large fists.

The only thing that I think would be in Ali's corner is that he could take a punch. Ali took the hardest and biggest punches around. Lewis has proven that he can't take a punch.

Overall I just think that Lewis is just that much bigger and is skilled enough that would destroy Ali if they fought(each in their prime).

This pretty much is the same reason that I think Roy Jones Jr. will get killed by Lewis. The only way Lewis loses to Jones or Klitschko is when he doesn't take them seriously.

I so wanted Klitschko to knocked his punk ass out too.

Both Tyson and Ali would have destroyed any boxer/fighter with there superior hand speed, accuracy, movement and overall ring savvyness. (in there prime) Tyson is #3 all time in my book. Nobody can touch ALI though. Size dosen't mean evrything, Roy Jones Jr proved it by putting a good old fashion ass whipping on John Ruiz when he became the WBA World Heavyweight Champ. That should tell something.

Lewis could be #5 alltime together with Holyfiled, if he proves himself against Klitschko in a rematch.

Jones with his incredible handspeed and power could very well upset lewis. That should be a very intresting fight!

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

Originally posted by: HarryAngel
Jones with his incredible handspeed and power could very well upset lewis. That should be a very intresting fight!

No way Jones can give up that kind of height and weight advantage to Lewis and win. Trust me, I love RJJ (as a fighter, not a person) and I predicted he'd hand it to Ruiz but there's no way he'd take Lewis if Lewis is even half ass prepared. Lewis just has too much of a size advantage on him.

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: HarryAngel

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: NeoV
lets not turn this into an NBA thread...I'm not even going to comment on Shaq here, but I don't think the comparison of Lewis and his size vs other heavyweights compared to Shaq and his size vs other centers in the NBA...Shaq's difference is much more than the difference between Lewis and all the other heavyweights.

There is a clear trend in HW boxing for more and more bigger fighters...look at all the HW's close to, or bigger than Lewis - both Klitschko brothers, Michael Grant, "mount" Whitaker, R.Bowe (before his mind went AWOL) and many others - while it is true that Lewis hasn't fought all of them, I think they are physically comparable to Lewis, whereas the NBA has no one comparable to Shaq - stricly based on size/strength.

Lewis would beat Ali? I don't know about that.

You can't put Tyson in the top 5 ahead of Lewis - Tyson may have been spectacular with his knockouts, but he fought a bigger collection of bums than Lewis has fought up to this point...Razor Ruddick probably gave Tyson his best fight, prior to Buster Douglass mauling him, and Razor was a stiff with only a big uppercut....

Last comment - Klitschko was in big trouble in that 6th round, those two uppercuts took a lot out of him. The rest of the fight could have gone either way IMO.

Love to see a rematch.

for all of you saying how much you didn't like Lewis for his post-fight comments, keep in mind that he is probably the most 'normal' HW champ in a long, long time, and for the most part is a good guy.

Tyson was a fighter not a boxer so I would not classify him in the top 15 either.

As for Lewis wiping the mat with Ali. Lewis would have 30+ pounds on Ali. You just can't make up for that weight difference. When Ali was his best he would have been giving up 40 pounds to Lewis. The only physical advantage Ali has over Lewis is their fist size. Ali had abnormally large fists.

The only thing that I think would be in Ali's corner is that he could take a punch. Ali took the hardest and biggest punches around. Lewis has proven that he can't take a punch.

Overall I just think that Lewis is just that much bigger and is skilled enough that would destroy Ali if they fought(each in their prime).

This pretty much is the same reason that I think Roy Jones Jr. will get killed by Lewis. The only way Lewis loses to Jones or Klitschko is when he doesn't take them seriously.

I so wanted Klitschko to knocked his punk ass out too.

Both Tyson and Ali would have destroyed any boxer/fighter with there superior hand speed, accuracy, movement and overall ring savvyness. (in there prime) Tyson is #3 all time in my book. Nobody can touch ALI though. Size dosen't mean evrything, Roy Jones Jr proved it by putting a good old fashion ass whipping on John Ruiz when he became the WBA World Heavyweight Champ. That should tell something.

Lewis could be #5 alltime together with Holyfiled, if he proves himself against Klitschko in a rematch.

Jones with his incredible handspeed and power could very well upset lewis. That should be a very intresting fight!

What are you smoking????? Just because RJJ beat a no name heavyweight Ruiz means that size doesn't matter??? RJJ couldn't knock out Ruiz. No one considers Ruiz a top heavyweight. Ruiz had a belt only because Lewis didn't want it.

Lewis is a VERY skilled boxer. He knows the sport. His only weakness is his chin. I find it funny I am defending Lewis here. I really don't like the guy but you are crazy if you think that Ali could beat Lewis when both were in their prime.

Just look at every other sport. For instance track runners. The fastest track runner in the 60's couldn't even compete with runners today. We are stronger, faster and better than athletes from years ago.

That doesn't even take into account that Lewis can box and he would have at least 30 pounds on Ali.

It is one thing for a small skilled boxer like RJJ beating a somewhat decent boxer like Ruiz. It is totally different for a undersized awesome boxer to beat a damn good much larger boxer.

As for Tyson, I think that if Lewis and Tyson had fought when they were both in their prime, it is totally impossible to predict. All it would have taken is one punch from Tyson to win the fight. Tyson had confidence back then and had a hop in his step that allowed him to avoid punches that most couldn't. Lewis on the other hand is a very good counter puncher and knows how to box.

In closing, Lewis is not a top 15 heavyweight of all time. There are much better fighters over time. But that doesn't mean Lewis wouldn't put a ass whoopin on them. You have to judge a fighter by the time period he boxed in and what type of fighters he beat.

Ali beat the best. Lewis only beat average fighters. Lewis was also beat by two below average boxers.