Lexus RX300 or BMW X5??

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NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91


<< That was weird

Anyway the talk of the 3.0 maybe being gutless, well at sealevel yes the numbers maybe awesome, but try it going up in the mountians, remember kiddies the less displacement you have the bigger hit you take on the performance with high altitude. Why do you think those big diesels really rock up here.

The Suburban does not get 12 MPG and it's easy to drive for people who are good drivers my truck is longer then my brothers 3/4 ton suburban and I've been without even a parking ticket in my entire LIFE

But IMHO I wouldn't get any of those 3 anyway

have you considered the acura mdx

I had a look under one of these one time, the most hilarious thing about this vehicle is how perfect a Luxury SUV it actually is, for one it's not made for off-road really, just like all the rest really, one big thing is all it is is a Minivan on stilts, the other thing was the plumbing of the exhaust, what a joke, it goes under the axel.
>>


Even the 285HP 4x4 Suburban get 13 / 17. The 320HP and 340HP V8's have gotta be worse than that.


<< id go with the beemer.. just looks and sounds more playa.. >>


Oh, how original.
 

Schlocemus

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2001
1,198
0
0


<<

<< I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, but no where on the official BMW website does it even list the cargo space for the 3-series wagon. The X5 is not a 5-series wagon on stilts...the handling is completely subjective. Gas mileage should be fine, mine averages around 20 MPG. It is definitely not slower than the 3-series wagon; in fact it blows the pants off it! X5 4.6is 0-60: 6.2; 3-wagon 0-60: 7.8 (9.0). It is an overall good car in my opinion... >>


1) That's why any person that is going trying to prove their case needs to go to more than one source. According to MSN Carpoint (who gets their data straight from BMW), the 325xi has 25.5 cu ft of space behind the rear seats. The X5 has 16.1 cu ft. Considering how much bigger the X5 is, that is pitiful:

Length/Width/Height/Weight

X5 3.0i
183.7 / 73.7 / 67.5 / 4586

325xi Wagon
176.3 / 68.5 / 56.3 / 3627


2) The front and rear subframes are adaptions of the 5-Series. The engine and front MacPherson strut/rear multi-link suspension design (hence the lively handling) is 5-Series. That cut down on development time and cost.

3) So you compare a top of the line $66,000+ 342HP X5 4.6i to a low level 185HP 3-Series Wagon. Righhhhhhhhhhhht (that's like me comparing an M3 to a X5 3.0i). Kenazo is looking at the X5 3.0i (read the thread). A 3-Series wagon would have no trouble keeping up with THAT X5 3.0i.
>>



I'm not exactly sure where you were looking, but I just headed over to carpoint and checked out the section on the 3-wagon...
All that I see are individual specifications such as:
Headroom - front (in.) 38.4 38.4


Headroom - rear (in.) 37.7 37.7


Legroom - front (in.) 41.4 41.4


Legroom - rear (in.) 34.4 34.4


Hip Room - front (in.) No Data No Data


Hip Room - rear (in.) No Data No Data


Shoulder Room - front (in.) 54.4 54.4


Shoulder Room - rear (in.) 54.2 54.2

So I was wondering if you actually took the time to add and multiply all of those together to get the total. That's right, perhaps that front and rear subframes are adaptions of the 5-series...I don't see what that proves. What is innovation other than improvement? Actually, you were the one that brought up the comparison to a 3-series, but I'll pass over that...Two of the cars we own are the X5 and a 330i...the X5 is faster and, although perhaps not statistically, in practicality has as much room as the 3, which is plenty...

My $0.02 and I don't want to start an argument...so if you counter me I'll just let it go...

Edit: skipped a word...
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91


<< I'm not exactly sure where you were looking, but I just headed over to carpoint and checked out the section on the 3-wagon... >>


Hmmmmmmmmmmm, maybe I should just point it out to you (under payload & towing)

http://carpoint.msn.com/Vip/Specifications/BMW/3-Series%20Sport%20Wagon/2002.asp

Cargo Volume (cu. ft.) 27.3



<< Actually, you were the one that brought up the comparison to a 3-series, but I'll pass over that...Two of the cars we own are the X5 and a 330i...the X5 is faster and, although perhaps not statistically, in practicality has as much room as the 3, which is plenty... >>


And yes, I did bring up the comparison of a 3-Series Wagon to an X5 3.0i. That is a valid comparison b/c both are around the same price features and performance wise. But to compare a 4.6is to a 325xi Wagon is pushing it WAY too far. The 4.6is about $26,000 more.


<< So I was wondering if you actually took the time to add and multiply all of those together to get the total. That's right, perhaps that front and rear subframes are adaptions of the 5-series...I don't see what that proves. What is innovation other than improvement? >>


Where the improvement? An X5 4.4i is slower than a 540i wagon. It handles worse, gets worse gas mileage, has less cargo capacity, and costs more. Where's the innovation other than AWD?

The X5 is merely BMW's attempt to cash in on SUV craze by creating a WORSE 5-Series Wagon and their gamble paid off b/c people will buy a BMW SAV/SUV JUST B/C it's a BMW
 

dcdomain

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2000
5,158
0
71
How the heck do you justify "the Lexus just sucks?"

Anyway, I kinda skimmed through the entire thread, looks like NFS4 has been answering everyone.
My family was just recently in a similar situation. Both my QX4 and my uncles are going back to the dealership in late January (leased), so we started looking for a replacement. My father wanted my uncle and I to get the same vehicle again, so I started looking during my winter break. At first my uncle wanted a car, than an SUV, and ultimately since one of his associates had an X5, he told me he wanted to get an X5. Not judging him or anything, but it looked as though he wanted the X5 just for the looks and the name. Looks great I must say, but I can't justify paying that much for the brand name and looks. And considering how so many owners have had trouble with the reliability, I was hesitant to pay that much for a vehicle that would be in the shop for half the time. So I looked around, and ultimately decided to bring up the MDX.

I've always been a fan of Acura, and the MDX was a decent SUV, heck it placed pretty high in many reviews and comparisons. I had a hard time convincing my uncle to spring for the MDX because he hated the looks, but you just can't pass up a deal like that. So after convincing him, I started calling up some dealerships and to my dismay there was still a six month wait for the damn thing! I knew this was happening after it was released, but I figured Acura had at least ramped up production by now. Anyway, we then went back and took a look at the X5, called up some dealerships and it was around a 2 month wait.

As of now, my uncle is calling up some previous dealerships he has dealt with. So far, he found one in stock, a white one with the nav and sport package. Until he finds another unit, I can't say we'll be going with the MDX, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

So why did we choose and MDX, and not the RX300, the ML, X5 or any others I can't seem to think of now? My friend has an RX300, I hate the looks, I hate the interior, and my uncle agreed. It has been very reliable though, and performs like a beast compared to the ML and QX4. Moving on to the ML, my brother drives an ML, and the early production problems had us worried. We figured, one ML in the household was good enough. But the Mercedes dealership experience has been pretty amazing, even though we did get a crappy Camry or Corolla as a loaner for all those times we had to take it in for service. The X5 was just way too small and expensive for what you got, especially with what seems to be a high amount of initial production problems.

Face it, the MDX is a bargain! Take a look, if you can wait long for it.
 

ddave

Member
Oct 1, 2001
53
0
0
Personally I would get the X5. You will pay more but there are some upside.

They aren't very common so you won't see them that often.
BMW is BMW- they aren't rebadge so they can charge you more. When someone says Lexus, doesn't Toyota pop into your mind?
BMW is known for superior handling AND superior brakes. The traction control was widely used in bimmers so over the years, they have perfected it. If you'll be driving in snow and rain, this is a good thing. SUVs may have AWD but they don't necessarily have good traction control. And the brakes. Very stable when decelerating from high speed.
BMW along with BMWCCA (www.bmwcca.org) offers driving schools so you can drive your car the way it was meant to be driven in a safe enviroment. So when you're in the real world, you'll know your cars limits and drive more carefully. I don't know if Toyota even offers this

RX300
Cheap and reliable. What do you expect- its a Toyota.

If you want a car you can drive and appreciate- buy the X5. If a car is just a car to you then by all means, get a Toyota, errr Lexus.








Edit: Doh! My post came up blank!
 

Doggiedog

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
12,780
5
81
They aren't very common so you won't see them that often.

X5s and RX300s are dime a dozen around Northern NJ where I live.

I would go for the Toyota Harrier er.. Lexus RX300 because unless you are getting a 4.4 or 4.6 X5, it's just another expensive mid-performance SU(A)V.
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91


<< They aren't very common so you won't see them that often.

X5s and RX300s are dime a dozen around Northern NJ where I live.

I would go for the Toyota Harrier er.. Lexus RX300 because unless you are getting a 4.4 or 4.6 X5, it's just another expensive mid-performance SU(A)V.
>>


Yep, for what you pay for the BMW, you ain't getting much (as is the case with all base BMWs, they rape you on options). You get less cargo capacity and features. The cheapest X5 3.0i you are going to get is $39,945. And you don't get leather, moonroof, etc. and all that good stuff. Add leather, automatic transmission (X5 comes standard with 5-speed manual), and NAV system and you're looking at $46,530.

You can get a loaded RX300 w/NAV system for around $41,000. And Lexus' quality/reliability and customer service is second to none.

All you pay for is name with the Bimmer.


<< Bimmer...
Toyota is a Toyota
>>


Is that all you care about? Just a name? I guess you don't mind bleeding from the ass either?
 

ddave

Member
Oct 1, 2001
53
0
0
<< Bimmer...
Toyota is a Toyota >>


>>Is that all you care about? Just a name? I guess you don't mind bleeding from the ass either?


Don't you feel that Toyota is jacking you up the butt? They build a Toyota and add a few things, ship it to the US and rebadge it to Lexus then charge a premium for it. In Japan, a luxury Toyota is still a Toyota. In the US, the name gets changed and a preminum is charged. Who's really getting screwed?

Apperently Toyota cares about the name.
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91


<< Don't you feel that Toyota is jacking you up the butt? They build a Toyota and add a few things, ship it to the US and rebadge it to Lexus then charge a premium for it. In Japan, a luxury Toyota is still a Toyota. In the US, the name gets changed and a preminum is charged. Who's really getting screwed?

Apperently Toyota cares about the name.
>>


Hey, we bought the Toyota version of the RX300. The Toyota Highlander Limited. $32,500 loaded (only option we didn't get was heated seats).

This ain't Japan, this is the United States. A loaded Lexus is ALWAYS going to be cheaper than a BMW no matter which way you slice it. It's just that in this case that the X5 3.0i is a poor bargain for what you get compared to offerings like the RX300 and MDX. Comparing apples to apples, BMW ass rams you compared to Lexus.
 

ddave

Member
Oct 1, 2001
53
0
0
>>Hey, we bought the Toyota version of the RX300. The Toyota Highlander Limited. $32,500 loaded (only option we didn't get was heated seats).

Hey chill out! Im not attacking you personally
You asked the guy if all he cares about is the name and if he's willing to get screwed over it. I just pointed out a fact, if you buy a Lexus, youre paying more for a rebadge car. In your case, you got the better end of the deal because you have a very similar car as the RX300 and paid a lower price for it vs someone who will spend more to buy a Lexus just because it has a Lexus badge.


>>This ain't Japan, this is the United States. A loaded Lexus is ALWAYS going to be cheaper than a BMW no matter which way you slice it. It's just that in this case that the X5 3.0i is a poor bargain for what you get compared to offerings like the RX300 and MDX. Comparing apples to apples, BMW ass rams you compared to Lexus.

No where in my post did I say we were in Japan. I pointed out that in Japan, a Toyota is a Toyota. Here in the US, consumers are willing to pay more for the same thing if its repackaged. In this case, Toyota repackages a Toyota into a Lexus and charges more.
A bimmer will never cost less if you compare them in the respective classes nor will it ever be a better value. If you're really concerned about value, why not just buy the top of the line Toyota Highlander with all the options and still keep money in the bank? Why even bother looking at the Lexus.
Most people who buys a BMW have a pretty good idea of why they're paying more and are willing to do it.

The bottom line is, you buy a BMW, you have a BMW. You buy a Lexus, you have an overpriced Toyota.


 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
78,868
368
136
NFS4,

Does the 6 year warranty your Dad paid $1,000 for begin after the manufacturer's warranty expires?
What is the standard manufacturer's warranty?
Is the extended 6 year warranty bumper to bumper?
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91


<< The bottom line is, you buy a BMW, you have a BMW. You buy a Lexus, you have an overpriced Toyota. >>


And a Cadillac is an overpriced Chevy...Volvo is an overpriced Ford, Lamborghini is an overpriced VW...?

I have stated on many occassions in this thread to get the Highlander over the RX300 (just look, you'll see). But when it comes to RX300 vs X5, the RX300 is still a better buy (regardless of whether it is a Toyota or whatever you want to call it). And not everyone likes the styling of the Highlander, so so may prefer the "edgier" looks of the RX300. I don't know, but it's their decision But compared to the X5 you're not giving up anything with the RX300. With the X5, you'll be giving up:

A few MPG
21 cu ft cargo space behind the rear seats / 25 -30 cu ft with rear seats down
$5,000 out of your pocket for a lower equipped vehicle
Lexus's traditional stellar build quality, reputation, and customer service

I wouldn't mind paying the extra money for the Bimmer if cargo capacity wasn't so skimpy. I mean, the fact that a 5-Series and 3-Series wagon have more cargo space than the X5 just is the nail in the coffin for me I say that b/c we fully USE the cargo capacity of the Highlander. I mean, if I can't fit a decent amount of stuff behind the rear seats without folding them down, the thing is usless to me.

After the RX300s warranty period runs out, you can expect a smooth running trouble-free vehicle. BMW is gonna take you to the cleaners with servicing and repairs. You have to take the thing to the dealer (and you have to resest some little doohicky under the hood too) for servicing. Ask Windogg about that. He drives an X5, and his brother drivers an M5.

And to be accurate (at least for the US market), the RX300 isn't a rebaged anything (discounting the fact that it is Camry based). The Highlander is essance a rebadged Lexus RX300 as it came out afterwards


<< Does the 6 year warranty your Dad paid $1,000 for begin after the manufacturer's warranty expires?
What is the standard manufacturer's warranty?
Is the extended 6 year warranty bumper to bumper?
>>


I'm not sure on the warranty. I would have to ask.
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
0
0
ok i've been in all three vehicles (highlander, lexus, and bmw) and i must say the BMW was better than all of the other cars mentioned here. Kickass interior/exterior and performance to back it up. ONly problem is the high price. Thus i suggest going for the Highlander, or if you don't like the Toyota name go spend more money on the Lexus, which is pretty much the same except for styling. I never quite understood the SUV hype though, as most people don't even use the extra cargo space. I saw go pickup a kickass Lexus LS400 used man. Sweet ass cars that can fit 5 people very COMFORTABLY.
 

dcdomain

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2000
5,158
0
71
Oh hell, I certainly use the cargo space. Everytime I'm going to school or back home, I'm amazed at how much more stuff I can fit in my brothers ML320 than my old QX4. It makes a difference, trust me. My freshman year, I had to throwout one of my final models I spent a week working on, and my other final model got crushed on the drive home. Would never have happened if I had the ML then.

As for BMW, with all the problems my friends have had with the 3 series, the vocal problems on some forums about the X5 and now problems with the new 7 series, I'd save my money and get the Lexus/Toyota, at least I'll be able to drive it more than half the time...
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91


<< Oh hell, I certainly use the cargo space. Everytime I'm going to school or back home, I'm amazed at how much more stuff I can fit in my brothers ML320 than my old QX4. It makes a difference, trust me. My freshman year, I had to throwout one of my final models I spent a week working on, and my other final model got crushed on the drive home. Would never have happened if I had the ML then.

As for BMW, with all the problems my friends have had with the 3 series, the vocal problems on some forums about the X5 and now problems with the new 7 series, I'd save my money and get the Lexus/Toyota, at least I'll be able to drive it more than half the time...
>>


Exactly. That's the thing, people always equate BMW with GOO GOO GA GA I gotta have it. I equate it with good performance coupled with trips to the dealer and not so great reliability.
 

ddave

Member
Oct 1, 2001
53
0
0
NFS4

Hey buddy! Well. At least we can agree that we disagree.

I have nothing against Toyota/Lexus and I think they make good reliable cars. Im just a german car freak (if you haven't already figured it out).

>>After the RX300s warranty period runs out, you can expect a smooth running trouble-free vehicle. BMW is gonna take you to the cleaners with servicing and repairs. You have to take the thing to the dealer (and you have to resest some little doohicky under the hood too) for servicing. Ask Windogg about that. He drives an X5, and his brother drivers an M5.


Yes bimmers are expensive to buy and maintain. But because I am stingy or just handy with tools, or maybe even both, I work on my own cars thus I save quite a bit of money. That little thingy you reset are the service indicator lights which most newer cars have. Nice thing about the bimmer though is they are more comprehensive and warns you of an issue early on instead of later like most dummy lights.
Bimmers are also known to deliver high milage engines. Engines with less than 75,000 miles are considered babies around Bimmerphiles. My M5 has over 230,000 miles on it and the only major thing I have done is a transmission job and yes, it still kicks A$$

If you really want a bimmer though, you can join bmwcca and in a year, they'll give you a loyal owner rebate (shouldn't I post this in hot deals? Hehe) Actually saved 2000 dollars using that rebate when we got our X5 (Yes it has been taken off road- forded a river, through mud and sand).

Now how about them Chrysler ML320s.... Heheh J/K folks!

 

mAdD INDIAN

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
7,804
1
0
What's the difference between the Toyota Highlander and the RX300 apart from the differences in look??

Why would you get a RX300 when the Highlander is the same thing? I'm pretty sure the Highlander uses the same quality of materials as the RX300.

Apart from the warranty/looks there's not much different. If you want the name, then go for the Lexus, but then again, if your only about brands then spring for the X5. While it maybe more expensive, it drives a whole lot better. Its one of those things that you can't really put a finger to, but its something you can appreciate and feel.

The RX300 drives and handles like a regular Camry/Seinna, if thats your bowl, then go for it.
The X5 rides like a 5-series (or pretty close to), so if you like a sporty confident ride, go for that, and while your at it, dream about the Le Mans X5 with 700hp and killer suspension while maintaining its off-road ability.

Then there's also that new Land Rover? I don't know its name or if its in the same class in terms of size..but its also classy if you want image.
 

CraigRT

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
31,440
5
0
If you're gonna get the 4.4i or more in the X5 then it's better, but if not, then the RX300 is a far better value I think... BMW is far too much money.....
 
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