Life Decisions

[joohang]

EDIT: After looking at urbantechie's post, I realized that I got a resume. My recent resume

Here's a brief background of myself:

- Fluent in 3 languages (English, Spanish, Korean)
- Currently live in Burnaby, BC (in Canada right by Vancouver)
- First-year Arts student at UBC

Academic Interests:
- Natural Sciences (Physics/Astronomy and Chem)
- History

Computer skills that I know well enough to get a job:
- DHTML, ASP, XML/XSLT, etc.
- Visual Basic (simple business apps, not enterprise-level)
- Computer hardware (regularly read AnandTech and other hardware sites)
- Tried the sample exams at ExamCram.com, and could easily pass A+ exam
- Got MCP at the moment. Studying to get MCSD this summer.

Also quite familiar with:
- Windows 9x/NT
- Administering a simple Client/Server network

=================================================

I'm 19 years old, and I believe that I've learned quite a bit. I've had my eyes on a career somewhere in the computer industry for quite some time, so I've constantly asked for advises from professionals. Now I just wanted a more up-to-date input from you fellow AT users.

Here's my dilemma:
I am not in Computer Science because I didn't find a single Comp Sci course in UBC course catalogue that I am interested in. I attended some of my friends' Comp Sci lectures and I didn't like them. I really didn't see the point of learning Scheme and assembly language, when all I wanted to know was compiling some business apps in VB. I guess that Comp Sci teaches me theories and everything, but I am most interested in "effective use of technologies." i.e. When I see a new technology, I immediately think about their practical use, and how I could effectively use them.

So I stayed away from Comp Sci for good. I probably could pull out some good marks, but I didn't feel like spending 4 years on stuff I wasn't interested in.

I took some Science courses this year too. I skipped first year Chem (with IB credits) and took a course on Coordination Chemistry (CHEM 202). I loved the course, but I hated the labs. I ran into the same situation with Physics. I aced all the exams and even got a letter from the department asking me to consider Physics as my degree. But I really really don't like the labs. I don't like those helpless, cocky T.A.'s (who can't even operate Windows 2000 properly), and the labs themselves either don't make any sense nor do they enhance my knowledge of Physics in any way.

I have to declare a major next year. I am considering a B.A. in Asian Studies, since I'm enjoying ASIA100/101 so much. I was hoping to get a second major in a natural science, but so far I got the impression that UBC won't let me do that.

When I talk to my parents, they tell me to go to engineering or comp sci. When I talk to my friends' parents, they all freak out and tell me to stay away from Arts, since I'll "find no jobs." (even though I tell them I'm aiming for a computer career.)

I am going to UBC because I want to learn some more. Also because my parents (and relatives) will freak out if I drop out without a degree. I was considering a college or technical institute instead, but they don't offer good history courses like UBC. As I've done throughout my high school years, I will train myself (in computer skills) at home or by attending courses.

So, I'm making decisions based on my interests. What do you think? How are these decisions going to impact my future?

Wow! I sure wrote a lot. I hope somebody shares his/her insight.

Thanks.

 

[josphstalinator]

i agree with your parents, engineering or comp sci

 

[joohang]

Thanks for your response.

But why?

 

[SKiller]

Sounds like you're looking for 2 things: good quality general ed classes and career specific training. Unfortunately you can only get the former in college, especially when it comes to the IT field. The good news is that if you get that MCSD then you should have no trouble getting an entry level IT job. If you want to take it further, then you can take some night classes at a tech school. Since you won't be getting your degree in CS, then it really doesn't matter what you major in as long as you like it.

 

[Passions]

Do what you have a passion for.

 

[Descartes]

Entry level "IT" job w/ MCSD? Pleeeeeeeeease.

The MCSD is not for every IT monkey, it's for developers. It's probably the most difficult MS cert, and quite valuable in MS development shops.

My only advice would be this: I think it would be FAR more advantageous for you to study development methodologies, as opposed to studying for the MCSD. The MCSD is valuable in the development field, but not if you don't have experience to back it up. You shouldn't have a problem finding a position where the employer will reimburse you for your cert expenses.

 

[joohang]

Descartes,

Thank you for your input.

Edit: You are an employer, right? Does it really matter whether your developers have a Comp Sci degree or not? Do you notice a significant difference? Is Comp Sci a "must" in your company?

 

[joohang]

SKiller,

<< good quality general ed classes and career specific training Unfortunately you can only get the former in college >>

So true. I am writing an essay for my English course on university graduates career training in colleges and technical institutes. Quite a number of computer science graduates do not find themselves with enough skills and experience, so they end up going to a 2-year college after. (notice the different meaning of &quot;college&quot; in Canada.)

 

[Descartes]

joohang:

My official title is &quot;Sr. Application Developer&quot;, so although I'm technically not the employer, I do get the final say as to whether or not we make an offer to the potentials.

We don't have a strict requirement for our developers to hold a degree. Largely we've found, that a degree doesn't necessarily mean competence. We look for developers that have a natural curiosity, and actually have an interest in their job. I've interviewed 45yo guys w/ every qualification under the sun, but when it comes down to it... they don't produce much. Conversely, I've met very young guys w/ little qualifications that can do a lot. It just depends on the person. Unfortunately, this mentality is not common across the corporation spectrum, and you'll find that many of the larger corporations would pick the degree holding candidate.

 

[joohang]

Descartes,

<< Unfortunately, this mentality is not common across the corporation spectrum, and you'll find that many of the larger corporations would pick the degree holding candidate. >>

In that case, I will work for smaller companies who value my qualifications rather than large corporations who look down on me as nothing but &quot;another Comp Sci major.&quot;

That reminds me of last summer.. I applied to several openings in the US over the web and got responses from about 5 of them asking me to move down. Too bad I decided to go to UBC. I hope it was a good decision in the long term.

 

[Descartes]

joohang:

I absolutely agree. I left from a very large telecom company (WorldCom before that) to a position in a smaller company, and I'll never go back. I was never to keen w/ the idea of being a corporate monkey, but for some, it's perfect. I love the flexibility, control, respect, and potential that comes w/ working for a smaller company.

You also have to consider the tuition reimbursement plans that are offered by quite a few companies. I had a pretty lucritive offer before I finished school, so I opted to work and go to school part-time. Now, my company pays for my certs, books, school, conventions, ad nauseum. I don't have any regrets...

[edit]That's one bad side... I've had very little sleep, and I'm still working, thus, my grammar/spelling suffers at times this late at night [/edit]

 

[dimsum]

the degree is just a prof of what you learned, if you can show your employeer a &quot;project&quot; that you did and show them that you have the computer/technical skills that they are looking for, doesn't matter what &quot;degree&quot; you have.

just on a side note. take some business class. not so much on your career but for your life.

 

[joohang]

dimsum,

Thanks for the tip. I was planning to take some commerce and/or some business courses, considering the nature of my future career.

 

[Plantanthera]

You should look at courses that offer coop, because it will give you an idea of what to expect in that that field. And, it also will give you the experience that you need when grad.

UBC is like most other institution, you have to jump through the hoops to get the paper. If you are not interested in University, then try BCIT. IMHO, BCIT is the best IT institution that we have in BC, because their grads are frist pick by PriceWaterHouseCoopers, IBM &amp; Telus.

 

[joohang]

<< I love the flexibility, control, respect, and potential that comes w/ working for a smaller company. >>

Those are exactly what I value the most. I don't think I'm suitable to be a &quot;corporate monkey.&quot;

You also have to consider the tuition reimbursement plans that are offered by quite a few companies. I had a pretty lucritive offer before I finished school, so I opted to work and go to school part-time. Now, my company pays for my certs, books, school, conventions, ad nauseum. I don't have any regrets...

I paid for my tuition with my scholarship this year, and tuition fees are EXTREMELY CHEAP compared to the US. ($2500 CDN total for one full-time year)

How did you find such companies? I would love to work full-time or semi-full-time and study part-time. That would be a perfect life for me. I am already living on my own with 3 part-time jobs. It'd be nice if a company is nice enough to recruit me and settle a deal with me. I mean, it's probably tough to find a college student who reads MSDN regularly.

If you have some tips on finding such companies, please let me know.

 

[joohang]

<< You should look at courses that offer coop, because it will give you an idea of what to expect in that that field. And, it also will give you the experience that you need when grad. >>

Co-op is great, and I'm applying for it. I am yet to confirm whether or not I am required to declare my major in the same field, though. Most co-op employers request transcripts, and I doubt that they'll give a job to a student with no Comp Sci courses.

I went to a Physics Co-op info session and there were previous co-op students sharing their experience. One of the students used VBA in Excel and he was paid to train himself (which is great). Only thing is that he and the co-op coordinator suggested Comp Sci courses, but UBC offers no courses in VB.

 

[Plantanthera]

Ther many more co-op options than the time I was at UBC...but, you should check out BCIT, because they offer alot more choices. I belive that BCIT claim to place 1/4~1/3 of their students in co-op, which is a very high % if it is true. (ps. all of the companies that I mentioned above have some kind of re-embursment for tuition/certs)

 

[PakG1]

<<When I talk to my parents, they tell me to go to engineering or comp sci. When I talk to my friends' parents, they all freak out and tell me to stay away from Arts, since I'll &quot;find no jobs.&quot; (even though I tell them I'm aiming for a computer career.)

I am going to UBC because I want to learn some more. Also because my parents (and relatives) will freak out if I drop out without a degree.>>

Wahahaha, you're Korean, huh? OK, maybe not, but I'm guessing by your name, that's such a stereotypical Korean thing (and other cultures, I'm sure).

Almost everything has pretty much been said, so I won't say more. But tell me, if you are Korean, what's up with all the Korean parents wanting their kids to go to UBC? I talked with my friends in high school about it, they couldn't give me a good answer, just that UBC had a &quot;better&quot; reputation in Korea.

*banana at SFU rite here *

 

[joohang]

<< Wahahaha, you're Korean, huh? OK, maybe not, but I'm guessing by your name, that's such a stereotypical Korean thing (and other cultures, I'm sure).

Almost everything has pretty much been said, so I won't say more. But tell me, if you are Korean, what's up with all the Korean parents wanting their kids to go to UBC? I talked with my friends in high school about it, they couldn't give me a good answer, just that UBC had a &quot;better&quot; reputation in Korea. >>

Yeah, I'm Korean. And it is true that UBC got that &quot;better&quot; reputation in Korea. The reason I chose UBC, though, was because of their Asian Studies department. I've been a SFU lover throughout high school, though. Used to sleep in the AQ last year.

The stereotype comes from the neo-Confucian idea stuck in the minds of most East Asian people. I concluded that based on what I learned in Asian Studies.

 

[joohang]

Planthanthera,

I was seriously considering BCIT, but I changed my mind. Like I mentioned on my previous post, I chose UBC because of Asian Studies.

I am planning to take some courses in BCIT in the summer, though.

 

[1L]

Actually, Joo Hang (2O),
a bunch of students in UBC's Compsci program are probably wondering the same thing you are - why does this stuff really matter?

That's a good question and it'd be great if all of you could contribute some insight into this topic. I'm a first year UBC student too and I'm curious, and perhaps, pressured to know right now: How much does wanting to enter a computer career depend on the necessary qualifications of a degree in Compsci?

Currently, our decisions would probably be based on the following factors:

• Income of Career/Job Position

• Viability / Stability of Industry

• Necessary or Mandatory Education (Courses)

• Amount of competition

Your insights are greatly appreciated


-phil

 

[Plantanthera]

I'm Asian also, and choses UBC for the wrong reason.

Current programer entry level at PriceWaterHouseCoopers/IBM/SDC is is between 40~45k in Vic/Van.
Everyone is looking for a good C/C++ progamers (database/web), and most look for 3+ experience...so get in your co-op time, and it doesn't hurt to know XML/ASP.
Like I said they all want experience, then papers (large companies want paper over personality, while smaller companies want teamwork &amp; enthusiasm).
I don't have a number for you as of competition, but there are 4+ programing jobs for every NetTech job.

If you're really keen I suggest calling some of the companies that you want to work for and ask them for information interview, and contact name. (now is a good time to contact potential employers)
Question to ask them:
what they do?
what their goal or future plan?
what to expect from them?
what can you do to improve your chances?
do they offer co-op?
how to get into their co-op/intern prog?

 

[joohang]

Plantanthera,

Great suggestions. Thanks!

 

If you want to keep your sanity, dont go into Comp sci.
Engineering is ok, if you like math 10 hours a day.
They will both get you jobs in the end if thats what your looking for.
Your young and have a nice jump on the rest of the world.
Traditional schooling isnt the most important thing in todays technology industry.
Yea its a great thing, and teaches you to be will rounded (which you should be able to teach yourself), but many times when it comes down to it, it does not mean a thing in the industry.
I work with majority of people twice my age, with degrees and such. I just prove that I can do the job as effectivly as anyone else.
And remember, there are blue collar monkey boys in the computer industry too.

 

[joohang]

Thanks for your input too, SammySon.