Liquid cooling advice needed...

[unlockthesource]

I want to water cool my Athlon 2400+ CPU (to start with). I am considering the following components:

-Eheim 1048 Centrifugal water pump [~$60]
-Zalman ZM-WB2 Gold CPU Block [<$40]
-ThermoChill HE120.2 High Performance Heat Exchanger [>$110]
-Polyuethene Tubing (.24" internal diameter), connector &amp; joints, teflon tape from Home Depot (nominal cost)

Cost:
About $250 as stated.

Prioities:
Top - uber quiet (near silent or silent)
2 - cost
3 - should be easily expandable to cool a A64 in the future.

I will be using home made doubly distilled water with a dilution of anti-freeze (~20% to prevent organisms from growing in the water)

I think that the ThermoChill radiator is probably the best balance between price/dB and upgradablility. It can handle up to 4 120mm fans in push-pull config or as few as 1 fan. I think i will use two PAPST 8412NGMLx's as they are rated to move up 45 m^3/h at a mere 19dB (full voltage).

Other fan and radiator suggestions are very welcome.

 

[unlockthesource]

I found this review of ThermoChill radiators. It is one of the most technical cooling reviews i have seem. There needs to be more reviews like this one!

 

[stardust]

dtek kit you could imitate

Price is $200 altogether, I'm running 34degrees load with a A64 @ 2.6ghz (1.6V) in freaking HOT weather

 

[pelikan]

You may enjoy reading at Overclockers watercooling forum.
You can get way higher performance out of the following components:

D-Tek Whitewater ($49.) The highest performing waterblock that is readily available.

Danger Den (aka Laing D4) 12V pump ($69. at Criticool). Has much higher pressure than the Eheim 1048 at similar wattage. Plus you don't need a relay for a 12V pump that runs off your psu.

Fedco 2-342 ($20. at auto parts store) Much better performance than the Thermochill. It has dramatically less flow restriction and will fit two 120mm fans. If you make a shroud for it it will perform even better.

1/2" clearflex tubing ($15. at McMastercar). This tubing bends easier than that home depot junk, putting less pressure on your block. Pressure from bends in tubing can prevent proper block mounting. Its also more resistant to water additives.

2 x 120mm Panaflo L or Evercool aluminum ($20.) (run the fans at 5 or 7V).

That's $173. + shipping for the best performance readily available.

 

[unlockthesource]

Hey thanks for all that info pelikan!

Seems like you really know what your talking about. All of those parts look great. Especially the heatercore, which should be $100 less than the Thermochill.

I must say im not too impressed with the noise generated by the Laing (35dB min). Do you think i could wrap it in foam to dampen the noise/vibrations without overheating the motor?


BTW: nice ergnomic pc setup, jk

 

[pelikan]

You're welcome.
The Laing used to be loud but they changed it. People who have ordered recently say they can't even hear it running. Check this thread.
If you are still concerned about the noise I would recommend the Eheim 1250. I used to have one and it was very quiet.

 

[unlockthesource]

Yeh it looks like it might be quieter. I was leaning towards getting the laing anyway. (even though the sound graph on dd's site is horrifying [53dB max claim]).

What does bother me is that i have read a dozen threads with people claiming that they purchased 2-342's at AutoZone for $20, when AutoZone.com tells me its $27. Either way i have little choice, as i dont feel like scavenging through junk yards to find a decent 15yr old used radiator.

 

[pelikan]

I think the price varies by region.

 

[unlockthesource]

Bought all the parts locally except CPU block and pump. Cant wait.

Also got the last Fedco 2-342 heatercore at my autozone. The box had about an inch of dark dust on it. It had probably been in the store for 15 years....

 

[pelikan]

Please post pics once you get it set up. And any questions too.

 

[Degrador]

Swiftech have a rather nice 12V pump - supposed to be more powerful than the ehiem 1250, yet just as quiet. (I forget the model number, but they only have one pump afaik).

 

[unlockthesource]

Originally posted by: pelikan
Please post pics once you get it set up. And any questions too.

Sure thing. Assuming all the parts arrive next week (fingers crossed), the installation probably wont be done till 8/1.

One question: The more i look at the 2-342 core, the more worried i become that the D4 wont be able to move the water through it. Do you think ill have a problem with that?

 

[pelikan]

You will have no problem moving water through that core. The reason is its a single pass core. Most cores are double pass. What that means is the water goes from the top of the rad to the bottom, and then back up to the top. In a single pass core water only goes from the top to the bottom. So in a single pass there is half the flow restriction. The 2-342 actually has less flow restriction that a double pass core of half its size, and significantly less flow restriction than an average water block.
Just to give you an idea of what these types of pumps can do, when I first set up my underground watercooling I used an eheim 1250. That little pump actually pushed water through my 50' of 3/4" copper pipe and 10' of 1/2" tubing. I didn't measure the flow rate, but when air was still in the system I could see little bubbles go through the tubing very quickly.

 

[pirred908]

Originally posted by: pelikan
You may enjoy reading at Overclockers watercooling forum.
You can get way higher performance out of the following components:

D-Tek Whitewater ($49.) The highest performing waterblock that is readily available.

Danger Den (aka Laing D4) 12V pump ($69. at Criticool). Has much higher pressure than the Eheim 1048 at similar wattage. Plus you don't need a relay for a 12V pump that runs off your psu.

Fedco 2-342 ($20. at auto parts store) Much better performance than the Thermochill. It has dramatically less flow restriction and will fit two 120mm fans. If you make a shroud for it it will perform even better.

1/2" clearflex tubing ($15. at McMastercar). This tubing bends easier than that home depot junk, putting less pressure on your block. Pressure from bends in tubing can prevent proper block mounting. Its also more resistant to water additives.

2 x 120mm Panaflo L or Evercool aluminum ($20.) (run the fans at 5 or 7V).

That's $173. + shipping for the best performance readily available.

I want to build the best water cooling system avaliable. Would these components adiquatly fit this description? If so, would I have to mod my Xaser III to fit the heatercore?

 

[unlockthesource]

Originally posted by: pirred908
I want to build the best water cooling system avaliable. Would these components adiquatly fit this description? If so, would I have to mod my Xaser III to fit the heatercore?

pirred908, After recieveing pelikan's advice, I started to look into high performance water cooling components. I HIGHLY reccommend you browse through the "Tips &amp; Techniques" section of Overclockers.com as it has alot of very very helpful articles.

From what i determined, the system Pelikan is spec-ed out above should yeild the highest cost/performance ratio. For example, you could go with a Little River Cascade waterblock, which is machined with thin deep holes in it to provide maximum heat transfer. The downside is that this block is over twice the price of the D-Tek (its 110 before shipping).

The rest of the components are top-notch, and if you check the hardcore WC forums, also fairly standard.

If your case is crowded then yes. I am heavily modifying mine. (large holes in top, smaller holes and small external box attached to rear).

 

[pelikan]

Since that Cascade is not available anymore, the whitewater is the best. Also, the TDX performs well with the #4 nozzle that's available and Swiftech's 6000 block is good.
But that list I put in my first post is the best available.
Edit: The heatercore is the size of two 120mm fans. It can fit, but you have to be creative. I would suggest looking at watercooled case pics to get some ideas. Overclockers has a thread of them in the watercooling forum stickies and AMDMB has them in the liquid cooling forum. And like unlockthesource mentioned, the tips and tricks section at overclockers.

 

[pirred908]

Where could I buy all these components?

 

[unlockthesource]

Originally posted by: pirred908
Where could I buy all these components?

Here are the sites i used:
D-Tek WhiteWater -> Manufacturer Direct
DD D4 12v -> Manufacturer Direct
GDI 399090 Radiator -> AutoZone.com (in store)
Tubes at the site pelikan suggested
And I bought Panaflo fan's, fan choice is your preference. Papst and Evercool make good fans too.

 

[pirred908]

Awsome, Thank you.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: unlockthesource
I want to water cool my Athlon 2400+ CPU (to start with). I am considering the following components:

-Eheim 1048 Centrifugal water pump [~$60]
-Zalman ZM-WB2 Gold CPU Block [<$40]
-ThermoChill HE120.2 High Performance Heat Exchanger [>$110]
-Polyuethene Tubing (.24" internal diameter), connector &amp; joints, teflon tape from Home Depot (nominal cost)

Cost:
About $250 as stated.

Prioities:
Top - uber quiet (near silent or silent)
2 - cost
3 - should be easily expandable to cool a A64 in the future.

I will be using home made doubly distilled water with a dilution of anti-freeze (~20% to prevent organisms from growing in the water)

I think that the ThermoChill radiator is probably the best balance between price/dB and upgradablility. It can handle up to 4 120mm fans in push-pull config or as few as 1 fan. I think i will use two PAPST 8412NGMLx's as they are rated to move up 45 m^3/h at a mere 19dB (full voltage).

Other fan and radiator suggestions are very welcome.

looks like good choices, esp for silence. big radiator required. that dtek with only a single radiator isn't going to cut it for quiet.

 

[unlockthesource]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
looks like good choices, esp for silence. big radiator required. that dtek with only a single radiator isn't going to cut it for quiet.

Even though i already purchased all my parts, could you please explain why you dont think that this rig will be quiet with the d-tek??? What waterblock would you have suggested?

BTW: as i said later in the thread, i switched to a Fedco #2-342 single-pass heatercore. It fits 2x120mm fans.

 

[pelikan]

I don't think he realizes that the rad is a dual 120mm. Its enough rad to cool two overclocked cpu's quietly.

 

[iwantanewcomputer]

unlockthesource, if you see this, i want to get a wc system like this do you like everything, any different reccomendations? What kind of temps are you getting?

also the decibel levels on that danger den pump were like 35 at 12v. is it that loud?

thanks

 

[unlockthesource]

Originally posted by: iwantanewcomputer
unlockthesource, if you see this, i want to get a wc system like this do you like everything, any different reccomendations? What kind of temps are you getting?

also the decibel levels on that danger den pump were like 35 at 12v. is it that loud?

thanks

Ill post all that info and some when i get the whole system setup. Just subscribe to this post. So far i have everything but the waterblock and pump.

Some early recommendations:

• Browse through the tips section of Overclockers.com. It has some very unique articles.

• Choose your tubing carefully. I used McMaster. I orded the wrong tubing and they are letting me return it. I didnt expect this as it is 20' of tubing cut from a spool. They also ship same day

• Plan, Plan, Plan. I think i've gone through a dozen working layouts on paper. Im still not 100% sure of how it will layout.

BTW: Read through the thread. Theres a link to another thread with reports that the pump is nearly silent as of about the 6/04 revision.

 

[unlockthesource]

Originally posted by: iwantanewcomputer
unlockthesource, if you see this, i want to get a wc system like this do you like everything, any different reccomendations? What kind of temps are you getting?

also the decibel levels on that danger den pump were like 35 at 12v. is it that loud?

thanks

Okay,

I got the pump in the mail today. I'm suprised FedEx delivered it early morning saturday. A large portion of the day was spent setting eveything up. DIY water cooling is definitely not a task for the impatient. Im happy i did it, but i wouldnt recommend it for anyone who has a problem finishing a project.

Now to put to rest the issue of the Danger Den D4's noise level:
The DD D4 is NOT ANYWHERE NEAR 35 dB!

In detail, the D4 generates absolutely no low or midrange sound. However, it DOES generate considerable high freuqency sound. Considerable, but not as intrusive as any CPU fan at all.

The D4 is extremely well designed. It consists of a motor housing made of aluminum (i think) and an impeller. The motor housing has an oval shaped hole in it. The housing is essentially the entire pump body, as seen in danger den's pictures. The impeller is a half oval shaped component with a plastic fan on the flat end. The rest is aluminum. The impeller is actually magnetized, as is the body. The impeller hovers over the body and spins on a small pin. So the entire pump consists of one moving part, which is propelled magnetically. That should explain why it is so quite.