Living on mars.

[cbrunny]

Good points but those points will be made and tested when we are sent over there.

I think the first biodome failed because the plants did not create enough oxygen for the people to breathe correct? I forgot the exact reason why it failed or it was not sealed properly.

This doesn't make sense. There is literally no reason to go to mars if all you're going to do is build a bio-dome. Especially if you can't get it right on Earth!

 

[SMOGZINN]

Basically this ship is unpowered but it runs on an orbit that takes it past both Earth and Mars on every orbit where other spaceships can dock up with it for loading and unloading passengers and cargo while using much less fuel for transportation between Earth and Mars.

It can't be unpowered. It had to be launched into it's orbit at it's orbital speed, and then everytime I add or subtract any mass to it, like passengers, it has to compensate for that mass, or it is not going to stay in it's orbit for long.

 

[inachu]

This doesn't make sense. There is literally no reason to go to mars if all you're going to do is build a bio-dome. Especially if you can't get it right on Earth!

I remember the Biosphere 1 being a failure and I never tracked their second attempt:

http://www.armaghplanet.com/blog/whatever-happened-to-biosphere-2.html

I'll read the above url at a later time tonight.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Humans (and life of course) needs an ecosystem. Mars does not have an ecosystem.

And, if we get to the point where we can terraform... why not do just that to the vast deserts we have on earth?

Personally, and I could very well be dead wrong on this; there is no reason to go to Mars. There would have to be a steady and daily MASSIVE supply drops (think cruise ship size containers loaded with fertile soil, tools, food, etc.) hitting Mars to ensure what life on there can live (in bio domes, etc.).

Basically, we would have to move part of the earth itself, onto Mars,.. and then cover it with a large bowl.

Mars is too un-hospitable. On earth, if you lose everything, you can still find water to drink, something to eat and... breath air. This 'fallback' does not exist on Mars.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Humans (and life of course) needs an ecosystem. Mars does not have an ecosystem.

And, if we get to the point where we can terraform... why not do just that to the vast deserts we have on earth?

Personally, and I could very well be dead wrong on this; there is no reason to go to Mars. There would have to be a steady and daily MASSIVE supply drops (think cruise ship size containers loaded with fertile soil, tools, food, etc.) hitting Mars to ensure what life on there can live (in bio domes, etc.).

Basically, we would have to move part of the earth itself, onto Mars,.. and then cover it with a large bowl.

Mars is too un-hospitable. On earth, if you lose everything, you can still find water to drink, something to eat and... breath air. This 'fallback' does not exist on Mars.

A poor analogy. How many people would survive if dropped into the wilderness (say the Rockies) without tools?

 

[SMOGZINN]

A poor analogy. How many people would survive if dropped into the wilderness (say the Rockies) without tools?

That matters at what height we drop them from. I imagine that if we kept dropping them, at some point people would start to survive and just climb down the huge pile of bodies.

 

[cabri]

Humans (and life of course) needs an ecosystem. Mars does not have an ecosystem.

And, if we get to the point where we can terraform... why not do just that to the vast deserts we have on earth?

Personally, and I could very well be dead wrong on this; there is no reason to go to Mars. There would have to be a steady and daily MASSIVE supply drops (think cruise ship size containers loaded with fertile soil, tools, food, etc.) hitting Mars to ensure what life on there can live (in bio domes, etc.).

Basically, we would have to move part of the earth itself, onto Mars,.. and then cover it with a large bowl.

Mars is too un-hospitable. On earth, if you lose everything, you can still find water to drink, something to eat and... breath air. This 'fallback' does not exist on Mars.

The intention of colonization is to make an inhospitable world survivable.

\Even on earth, people ventured into areas where multitudes dies before they were able to figure out how to survive.

It is a risk that those you choose to be a colonist accept. Failure is learned on. the US did it with the space program.

 

[inachu]

The intention of colonization is to make an inhospitable world survivable.

\Even on earth, people ventured into areas where multitudes dies before they were able to figure out how to survive.

It is a risk that those you choose to be a colonist accept. Failure is learned on. the US did it with the space program.

It will be rehashed news like we always heard on TV about NASA.

Entire colony dead from unknown airborne radiation. Why do we do it?
Families torn and talking with lawyers.

Could foresee accidents such as 2 rockets in a row meant to send supplies to mars explode 20 miles above the earth. The colony starves.

New rules and regulation to have an escape capsule to send people back to earth mandatory.

I think the first 100 years will be the most dangerous on mars.

We also need to make sure people who are sent to mars do not need any meds for any reason other than for things like cuts and bruises.

If anything we could turn Mars into a prison colony.

 

[norseamd]

I think the first biodome failed because the plants did not create enough oxygen for the people to breathe correct? I forgot the exact reason why it failed or it was not sealed properly.

"First Biodome" is Earth actually.

The Biodome 2 may or may not have had technical problems but ironically it was the political problems that imploded the Biodome 2 project.

 

[inachu]

Steamer is right. We need to prove terraforming on earth first.
We should visit Egypt as it was recorded as being a very very fertile land at one time.

Quite possibly an earthquake that changed direction of underwater aquifers or turning them off is what killed off the vegetation.

I doubt any underground aquifers on mars would be drinkable. Full of poisons like arsenic or something.

 

[WittyRemark]

Forget mars,I'm more interested in living underwater.
ohh the possibilities ...

 

[Newell Steamer]

A poor analogy. How many people would survive if dropped into the wilderness (say the Rockies) without tools?

Quite a few - assuming they were all healthy to begin with and had bare wilderness training.

Three major factors missing from Mars is:
1) water
2) air
3) other living things

In order to make up for those missing pieces on Mars, you need to keep feeding Mars supplies; water, air (for our suits), tools to repair our suits and food.

You can't live off of Mars' environment.

 

[Newell Steamer]

The intention of colonization is to make an inhospitable world survivable.

\Even on earth, people ventured into areas where multitudes dies before they were able to figure out how to survive.

It is a risk that those you choose to be a colonist accept. Failure is learned on. the US did it with the space program.

Yeah, but again, there are essential elements you will NOT find on Mars, which are key to our survival.

If you lose your canteen - you have a river stream somewhere.

If you lose your rations - you can pick berries or catch small animals to eat.

If you lose your knife/gun - you can fashion a weapon out of rocks or find a sharp stick.

If you lose any of these (as well as your suit which provides air),.. you are done on Mars. There are no options to live off Mars.

You don't have to send thousands to their deaths on Mars, to figure out you need to cover Mars with enough supply drops to account for the fact that it's barren. Mars exploration is not the same as Earth exploration,.. since each planet it totally differently.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Quite a few - assuming they were all healthy to begin with and had bare wilderness training.

Three major factors missing from Mars is:
1) water
2) air
3) other living things

In order to make up for those missing pieces on Mars, you need to keep feeding Mars supplies; water, air (for our suits), tools to repair our suits and food.

You can't live off of Mars' environment.

With regards to surviving in the Rockies, you either have no idea of the challenges presented or, a much higher view of the abilities of the average person than I do.

One thing is needed to survive on Mars, water. A sufficient supply of ice would provide water and air. Hydroponic operations would provide food. The technology is available.

 

[WelshBloke]

With regards to surviving in the Rockies, you either have no idea of the challenges presented or, a much higher view of the abilities of the average person than I do.

One thing is needed to survive on Mars, water. A sufficient supply of ice would provide water and air. Hydroponic operations would provide food. The technology is available.

Did you just say that surviving in the Rockies was really difficult but then imply that surviving on Mars wasn't so tough?

 

[Newell Steamer]

With regards to surviving in the Rockies, you either have no idea of the challenges presented or, a much higher view of the abilities of the average person than I do.

I never said the average person. I did say;

assuming they were all healthy to begin with and had bare wilderness training.

We are clearly talking about explorers and the rugged types. I am not sure why you think I was talking about obese diabetics who play Call of Duty all day and feast on 7-11 nachos with Big Gulps.

One thing is needed to survive on Mars, water. A sufficient supply of ice would provide water and air.

I don't know about that,...
http://www.racetomars.ca/mars/article_water.jsp

While scientists have concluded that Mars, like Earth, was once a watery planet, there is little evidence to support the existence of liquid water today. It is now a frozen, dry planet. Having developed a thin atmosphere, Mars never has rain—water vapour in the air evaporates or becomes unstable. With a reduced ability for greenhouse gases to trap solar heat in a thin atmosphere, Mars is now too cold for abundant liquid water on its surface.

So, even if you dump ice on Mars (or expect to unfreeze the ice caps - which would be a massive and wasteful undertaking,..), whatever water is created would leave the planet, making it further into a dead planet.

Hydroponic operations would provide food. The technology is available.

I don't think anyone is balking at the technology. What is being overlooked, is that when something breaks down, you have nothing.

No food. No air. No water. No natural alternative to fall back on.

Mars is a dead planet.

Mars is not Earth - you don't have anything to fall back on, like you do on Earth.

 

[inachu]

I never said the average person. I did say;

We are clearly talking about explorers and the rugged types. I am not sure why you think I was talking about obese diabetics who play Call of Duty all day and feast on 7-11 nachos with Big Gulps.


I don't know about that,...
http://www.racetomars.ca/mars/article_water.jsp

So, even if you dump ice on Mars (or expect to unfreeze the ice caps - which would be a massive and wasteful undertaking,..), whatever water is created would leave the planet, making it further into a dead planet.


I don't think anyone is balking at the technology. What is being overlooked, is that when something breaks down, you have nothing.

No food. No air. No water. No natural alternative to fall back on.

Mars is a dead planet.

Mars is not Earth - you don't have anything to fall back on, like you do on Earth.

I feel as if the best solution for mars is to move it into an earth goldilock orbit around the sun.

Anyone got any super size rockets? PLANET MOVERS INC.

 

[cabri]

I never said the average person. I did say;

We are clearly talking about explorers and the rugged types. I am not sure why you think I was talking about obese diabetics who play Call of Duty all day and feast on 7-11 nachos with Big Gulps.


I don't know about that,...
http://www.racetomars.ca/mars/article_water.jsp

So, even if you dump ice on Mars (or expect to unfreeze the ice caps - which would be a massive and wasteful undertaking,..), whatever water is created would leave the planet, making it further into a dead planet.


I don't think anyone is balking at the technology. What is being overlooked, is that when something breaks down, you have nothing.

No food. No air. No water. No natural alternative to fall back on.

Mars is a dead planet.

Mars is not Earth - you don't have anything to fall back on, like you do on Earth.

As stated air & water may be able to be generated from ice that exists.

It does not have to be released into the negligent atmosphere but captured for use and recycling.

We do not know what other minerals may exist that can provide nutrients; Plants can be grown in control atmospheric areas.

Plenty of preparation will have do be done to get a colony established and some additional technology will have to be tuned.

 

[disappoint]

I feel as if the best solution for mars is to move it into an earth goldilock orbit around the sun.

Anyone got any super size rockets? PLANET MOVERS INC.

That's funny because it's impossible now. But all it would take is making a machine that can make other machines including resource gathering machines and if the whole process were automated just sit back and watch the exponential growth happen until they make a nuclear or matter/ antimatter "rocket" the size of Mars itself. Provided they could find enough resources. Which there may be enough of throughout the galaxy if not just in this solar system alone. Sure that would take some advanced tech and a long time but you wouldn't have to violate any laws of physics to do it so it could be theoretically possible someday. That is unless humans destroy each other and wind up extinct instead of work together.

 

[norseamd]

Even if we moved Mars into more habitable orbit Mars would still not have any magnetosphere.

 

[inachu]

Even if we moved Mars into more habitable orbit Mars would still not have any magnetosphere.

The mass of the plant would need to increase.

We could easily ship all kinds of matter from earth to accomplish that.

It is said the weight of the earth keep growing 3 or 6 billion tons per year.

Now if we could turn that around in someway and send that weight to mars then the larger the mass then the bigger the gravity and the larger/better atmosphere the mars planet would be.

 

[DrPizza]

The mass of the plant would need to increase.

We could easily ship all kinds of matter from earth to accomplish that.

It is said the weight of the earth keep growing 3 or 6 billion tons per year.

Now if we could turn that around in someway and send that weight to mars then the larger the mass then the bigger the gravity and the larger/better atmosphere the mars planet would be.

The mass of Mars is 6.4169 x 10^23 kilograms. That's
641,690,000,000,000,000,000,000 kilograms. Your 3 to 6 billion tons per year is
000,000,000,002,721,554,220,000 kilograms*. Note all those leading zeros.

If we got that 3 to 6 billion tons per year to Mars, it will only take about 3,000,000,000 years before the mass of Mars goes up to 6.5169 x 10^23 kilograms. That's 3 BILLION years.

Now, suppose you wanted to launch enough matter from the Earth to raise the mass of Mars from 6.4169 to 6.5169 x 10^23 kilograms. Not enough to make any significant difference in gravity, but I think you'd call it a start. Quick back of the napkin calculation, using the escape velocity at the surface of the Earth (11.2km/s = 11200 meters per second), and 1/2 mv^2, gives 6.372*10^7 Joules per kilogram. The change in mass is 0.1 x 10^23 kilograms, giving us 6.372 x 10^29 Joules of energy. How much energy is that? Rough estimate of all remaining fossil fuels on Earth, plus all nuclear (fission) fuels (e.g., uranium) is less than 10 petajoules. That's 10^25 joules. So, you need 10,000 times more energy to do that than all the fossil fuels and nuclear fuels that exist on this planet.

So, no. You're not going to do it.


*(Depending on which definition of ton you use.)

**I did the calculations quickly & without much thought on the back of a Tractor Supply receipt in a dimly lit room. Please correct any inaccurate calculations.

 

[DrPizza]

Also note: yes, we conceivably could more efficiently raise the mass of Mars by altering the course of meteors, comets, etc., to impact Mars. However, that amount of energy I mentioned above... turns into heat. Such a period of bombardment would result in a planet that was uninhabitable due to the temperature. And, wild guess, for a long, long time.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I never said the average person. I did say;

We are clearly talking about explorers and the rugged types. I am not sure why you think I was talking about obese diabetics who play Call of Duty all day and feast on 7-11 nachos with Big Gulps.


I don't know about that,...
http://www.racetomars.ca/mars/article_water.jsp

So, even if you dump ice on Mars (or expect to unfreeze the ice caps - which would be a massive and wasteful undertaking,..), whatever water is created would leave the planet, making it further into a dead planet.


I don't think anyone is balking at the technology. What is being overlooked, is that when something breaks down, you have nothing.

No food. No air. No water. No natural alternative to fall back on.

Mars is a dead planet.

Mars is not Earth - you don't have anything to fall back on, like you do on Earth.

We're not talking about Terraforming, we're talking about some kind of closed system. Think domes or subterranean. If there is sufficient ice at the poles or anywhere else, you have with current technology air, water and, food.

 

[inachu]

Also note: yes, we conceivably could more efficiently raise the mass of Mars by altering the course of meteors, comets, etc., to impact Mars. However, that amount of energy I mentioned above... turns into heat. Such a period of bombardment would result in a planet that was uninhabitable due to the temperature. And, wild guess, for a long, long time.

Some video I watched in regards to planet building say depending on the makeup of a planet it can collapse or keep getting bigger. A super dense planet would result into turning into a star.

Some say Jupiter failed to turn into a sun but it just doesn't have the mass just yet and also they say it has an ice core and not a molten one.
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter

If we reverse time of earth then we could see it shrinking as it lost its mass
This one video shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HDb9Ijynfo
is one theory which takes the weight into account for getting bigger.