Llano Demo

[Arkadrel]

I just saw this video>
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=29360

and I think its pretty darn cool, shows 2 laptops face off against one another. One is a Sandy bridge the other a Llano.

Its differnt that the org. video, in that this time you see the actual laptops, and the guy launch them ect.

 

[drizek]

That is really impressive. Intel was using 65W while AMD was using 55W.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I just saw this video>
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=29360

and I think its pretty darn cool, shows 2 laptops face off against one another. One is a Sandy bridge the other a Llano.

Its differnt that the org. video, in that this time you see the actual laptops, and the guy launch them ect.

Ya I seen alot wrong with that bench . The fact SB took so long to load the game says much about the FF bench . There is something wrong here But I been wrong many times . Their are other game benchmarks AMD likes this one . I wonder why . Than its the report done on this link this statement here for instances . It just makes no sense to keep having these types of errors. Heres a copy and paste. Even AT when benching says some games as of yet do not run well on SB HD3000. So ya its a driver problem that AMD is exploiting . Can't blame AMD for that.

While Intel has spent the last month rectifying manufacturing defects in the silicon that powers the SATA 3Gbps ports on Sandy Bridge CPUs' supporting Cougar chipset, AMD should have been making hay with its Llano APU

 

[Arkadrel]

Yeah Intel graphic drivers dont get much attention... so its probably not that hard for AMD to find a benchmark, where intel drivers means bad performance for the sandy bridge IGP.

 

[Nemesis 1]

That is really impressive. Intel was using 65W while AMD was using 55W.

What ya want to wager that Intels driver team went right to work on this benchmark after the videos released. Its a driver problem . Lets see AMD do a demo with starcraft.

Thats the one Intel likes

 

[Nemesis 1]

Yeah Intel graphic drivers dont get much attention... so its probably not that hard for AMD to find a benchmark, where intel drivers means bad performance for the sandy bridge IGP.

Thats correct . Its going to be a tough road for Intels driver team . But intel as we all know is actually working hard on drivers and their driver team is rather good , But time is hard thing to overcome

 

[cotak13]

I think you can't hide from the fact that one poster has a need to nit pick with a demo.

Not only does some games don't run well. Intel doesn't even have DX11 support.

First you were picking at what systems were used. Then someone shows a video that shows it's two laptops. But even then it's like hey one launches so slowly. Did you watch the video? It launch in roughly 2 seconds for each laptop. There was no problem. Once it starts that's when it slows down there really isn't much to write home about.

 

[itsmydamnation]

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-llano-demo-cebit-2011-sandy-bridge,2883.html

less IQ
less performace
less compatablilty

SB/IB GPU has a big uphill battle

Starting out, the Llano system was running pretty smoothly and drawing about 52 W in Final Fantasy XIV, while the Core i7 was closer to 61 W with frequent dips to 44 W. Why the dips? This happened whenever the integrated graphics engine was no longer keeping up with rendering, basically going idle, then getting back to work. Adding the Excel spreadsheet caused power consumption to climb to about 54 W on the Llano-based machine, pushing Sandy Bridge to between 52 and 68 W (with the pronounced dips, again). However, as soon as Excel was the top window, the frame rate in Final Fantasy tanked even more (because the system was having a hard time prioritizing the tasks, as John explained). Conversely, bringing the game benchmark to the front caused Excel to slow down. The same didn’t apply to Llano.

AMD memory performance while using GPU does seem to be alot better, Idle power still seems a lot higher.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I think you can't hide from the fact that one poster has a need to nit pick with a demo.

Not only does some games don't run well. Intel doesn't even have DX11 support.

First you were picking at what systems were used. Then someone shows a video that shows it's two laptops. But even then it's like hey one launches so slowly. Did you watch the video? It launch in roughly 2 seconds for each laptop. There was no problem. Once it starts that's when it slows down there really isn't much to write home about.

Really if you think tess is all that important you should BUY NV products. How long did it take AMD to come close to NV on tess. Like I said If LLANO is all that AMD should have ran the starcraftII demo. That would have convinced even me. Anyone can clearly see this is a driver problem that AMD is exploting here. You want Intel to do in 2 years whats taken ATI/NV years to develope . But its easy to close your eyes to the fact that intel just started taking gaming seriously.

Ya can stick to the story that intel can't do CL but there is no proof of that what so ever.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I think you can't hide from the fact that one poster has a need to nit pick with a demo.

Not only does some games don't run well. Intel doesn't even have DX11 support.

First you were picking at what systems were used. Then someone shows a video that shows it's two laptops. But even then it's like hey one launches so slowly. Did you watch the video? It launch in roughly 2 seconds for each laptop. There was no problem. Once it starts that's when it slows down there really isn't much to write home about.

Its more than one poster. I didn't post anything about the reason for the last Video posted at the top of this page . The fact intel SB had problems loading the game says alot.

 

[Nemesis 1]

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-llano-demo-cebit-2011-sandy-bridge,2883.html

less IQ
less performace
less compatablilty

SB/IB GPU has a big uphill battle



AMD memory performance while using GPU does seem to be alot better, Idle power still seems a lot higher.

If a game is struggling to load your going to use more joice running said game . AS I said lets see if AMD has the gutts to run the starcraft II demo against intel

 

[Arkadrel]

From tomshardware:

The demo system was running an as yet-unnamed quad-core Llano part with a 1.8 GHz clock, 4 GB of DDR3-1333 memory, Crucial’s C300 SSD, and Windows 7. For comparison, AMD picked an off-the-shelf notebook with identical specs, but built around Intel’s Core i7-2630QM at 2.0 GHz (plus Turbo Boost, obviously)

Llano 1.8Ghz x4 core
Sandy bridge i7-2630QM @ 2.0Ghz (plus Turbo Boost)

Impressive that the Llano is only at 1.8ghz vs a 2.0ghz sandybridge (+turbo).

AS I said lets see if AMD has the gutts to run the starcraft II demo against intel.

Why would they do that? starcraft doesnt use your graphic card much, its mainly CPU bound game. Amds main advantage is a strong GPU, why show a game that doesnt need GPU power at all?

That would be stupid thing to do for marketing.
Marketing wants to show that Llano has a better GPU than sandy bridges, they need to pick games that use alot of graphics.

 

[Nemesis 1]

That my point its a marketing ploy and AMD is exploiting a weakness in intel drivers . This won't be the only game this happens with . Intel simply needs time . Sad part is Intel can't go pick up a llano systen to do the same . My wife and daighter been working hard the last 2 days comparing Graphics quality between NV and AMD and I not real happy with AMDs driver team at all .

 

[Arkadrel]

I dont think its all a driver issue.... some of it is because the sandy bridge GPU is alot weaker.

Their design goals are differnt, Intel focus more on CPU power and Amd more on GPU.

I dont think Intel really wants people to use their sandy bridge IGP...not really for gameing, they kinda expect people to buy a discrete and then just cover bare minimum with their own IGP.

Amd wants people to be happy with the IGP that comes with the Llano, not be required to buy a discrete card to play games (but still haveing that option open, with hybrid crossfire).

 

[CKXP]

That my point its a marketing ploy and AMD is exploiting a weakness in intel drivers . This won't be the only game this happens with . Intel simply needs time . Sad part is Intel can't go pick up a llano systen to do the same . My wife and daighter been working hard the last 2 days comparing Graphics quality between NV and AMD and I not real happy with AMDs driver team at all .

I rarely post on these forums anymore, but for the likes of me I can't understand why you are continuingly bashing AMD for this demo. I find the demo quite impressive and a strong showing by AMD. I find it hard to find that AMD rigged this demo in any way. You say AMD is nitpicking, and exploiting SB's short comings, and honestly why shoudn't they. Llano's GPU simply performs better.

 

[wahdangun]

That my point its a marketing ploy and AMD is exploiting a weakness in intel drivers . This won't be the only game this happens with . Intel simply needs time . Sad part is Intel can't go pick up a llano systen to do the same . My wife and daighter been working hard the last 2 days comparing Graphics quality between NV and AMD and I not real happy with AMDs driver team at all .

say what ever you want intel driver is suck and horrid, until they improve it this comparison is still valid, and its didn't change the fact that amd can use any games for their comparison, and if intel/you think that they are faster in star craft 2 then by all means prove it, don't just all talk and spreading bs!!
and if you really want to help this forum to prove that amd was not fair in this benchmark then prove it by running the benchmark and show us the fps??

and if you don't have anything usefull then stop, this thread are about Llano vs SB, and not about conspiracy theory or marketing ploy.

 

[Cerb]

That is really impressive. Intel was using 65W while AMD was using 55W.

To play devil's advocate, I wonder what a dual-core mobile i5 v. i7 test would look like? IoW, what are the chances that the visual results would be nearly identical, while consuming less power than Llano? It would still be an AMD win, in that case, but if using significantly less power, it wouldn't look quite so bad for Intel. Creating tests like this demo, but with more varied hardware, would be a good thing to try with a first review of Llano, as a nice reality check.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I dont think its all a driver issue.... some of it is because the sandy bridge GPU is alot weaker.

Their design goals are differnt, Intel focus more on CPU power and Amd more on GPU.

I dont think Intel really wants people to use their sandy bridge IGP...not really for gameing, they kinda expect people to buy a discrete and then just cover bare minimum with their own IGP.

Amd wants people to be happy with the IGP that comes with the Llano, not be required to buy a discrete card to play games (but still haveing that option open, with hybrid crossfire).

And the fact that this is Not a mobile cpu but embedded has nothing to do with it. Ya keep pointing to the power usage . This chip has a TDP of 45 watts . We have no idea the state of the battery or the memory used . Intel cpus never ever in stock come close to the TDP . I would say the max here would be 35 watts used and the rest comes from other components .

Go on line look at the Mobile chips that have been tested by reliable sources the 2820 QM is a good example . The fact that it use 85 watts in heavy use were the All cores are stressed means little In a game thats not cpu intense the HD3000 sips power. I didn't bother to check to see if this Core i7-2630QM is one that uses ECC memory but that wouldn't surprise me either.

 

[Mopetar]

Intel cpus never ever in stock come close to the TDP . I would say the max here would be 35 watts used and the rest comes from other components .

The chip used in the initial video has a 45W TDP, but the system was drawing upwards of 65W when it was really getting maxed out. If you throw enough at it, the CPU is going to eat up power. There's no indication of how much of that was translated into waste heat, but the AMD chip was drawing less power.

If the GPU and CPU are both being heavily stressed it'll probably get close to its TDP.

 

[Mopetar]

That my point its a marketing ploy and AMD is exploiting a weakness in intel drivers . This won't be the only game this happens with . Intel simply needs time . Sad part is Intel can't go pick up a llano systen to do the same . My wife and daighter been working hard the last 2 days comparing Graphics quality between NV and AMD and I not real happy with AMDs driver team at all .

All of the drivers in the world aren't going to make up for their inferior graphics. Updates might prevent games from randomly crashing or allow you to run software that previously wouldn't, but it's not magically going to make the performance gap go away.

 

[Nemesis 1]

In order for that to happen That means FF is a cpu intensive game There for Starcraft demo would have been ideal for AMD to show its power. But as another member put it . It would be stupid of AMD to use a cpu intensive game . One of ya is wrong

 

[Nemesis 1]

Now I don't know what Memory was used but the Core i7-2630QM does allow ECC memory. and the cost of these laptops is sky high so I suspect it was in fact ECC memory . So this notebook isn't intended for the masses at all.

 

[hans007]

Now I don't know what Memory was used but the Core i7-2630QM does allow ECC memory. and the cost of these laptops is sky high so I suspect it was in fact ECC memory . So this notebook isn't intended for the masses at all.

i think you are really reaching there. im pretty sure its a regular laptop, i mean they would go way out of their way to find a laptop that happens to use ECC? why. there arent even really any business laptops out on sandy bridge and how many use ECC?

 

[Mopetar]

In order for that to happen That means FF is a cpu intensive game There for Starcraft demo would have been ideal for AMD to show its power. But as another member put it . It would be stupid of AMD to use a cpu intensive game . One of ya is wrong

You do realize that Llano would still probably win regardless of the game played. All they have to do is turn the graphics settings up until Sandy Bridge starts to choke. Llano has better graphics and is going to perform better at anything that uses a GPU.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Ya LLano should win . I am not debating that at all . The problem I am having Is much like what cerb pointed out . If you understand how SB works You know that the cache speed runs at processor speed . You say Toms says turbo was on . There is a reason I don't read Toms reviews and many others don't . If cache speed is crippled the HD3000 is crippled . Ask ananda the effect of processor speed of intels video decoding as you increase cache speed its dramatic. As for Ecc memory It is infact likely used as there is no reason to use an embedded processor in a laptop unless ya intend to use ECC memory . Go check the pricies of laptops using this embedded processor there insanely priced