Llano Demo

[richierich1212]

Ok just watched the Hexus video again. Near the end of the demo you can see the SB system stutters even using Excel (where Intel CPUs "excel", lol). I don't think drivers will be able to fix that.

 

[Martimus]

Also, you can't notice sandy bridge stuttering in starcraft since it is just tiny little things moving around. I think FF makes sense.

Not sure what to make of the 1.8Ghz number. On the one hand, the performance is impressive, on the other hand, I expected more. Also, do we know whether or not Llano has Turbo?

It should have turbo, since it is a modified Thuban. Plus, since it is power gated, the turbo should be better. We will see when it is actually released and reviewed though.

 

[drizek]

Interesting. Based on the Furmark results, the Llano's GPU performs similar to Geforce GT 220.

The Sandy Bridge system was fluctuating immensely, so we can't really judge power usage based on those results. Battery life is another matter.

I think the saying "GLXGears is not a benchmark" applies here. I don't think you can really measure performance with furmark, and you really shouldn't compare it to an nvidia card since it is a totally different architecture.

Where did they run furmark? Did I miss it in one of the two videos?

 

[IntelUser2000]

Ok just watched the Hexus video again. Near the end of the demo you can see the SB system stutters even using Excel (where Intel CPUs "excel", lol). I don't think drivers will be able to fix that.

Yes it can. Because some of the management between the CPU and GPU is done by drivers. If you run it alone, it won't stutter. The Excel stuttering is because of the conflict with the CPU.

 

[drizek]

These are pretail systems and SB is the second generation of on-chip GPUs for them. How can they not have this stuff figured out by now? And it's not like this is the first time that Intels drivers have been an issue.

There are millions of Pentium M laptops out there that were rendered obsolete by Intels inability to upgrade their (GMA950 IIRC) drivers to support Aero. I had two laptops from 2005, one with Intel and one with nvidia. One of them runs Windows 7 now and the other is a headless server.

 

[Nemesis 1]

It says that the 2630QM doesn't support ECC memory. I'd trust that Intel provides the correct information about their products unless you have some other reason to believe that Intel's website is wrong.

Please ! It says no such thing . Yes I can see the NO ECC but unless my eyes decieve there is this ! That friend is intended as a MOUSE OVER . Read that . No I haven't checked to see if the M/B in question and its chipset is ECC ready . But it was listed in the specs on the OP video . I will go look at it now . But the CPU itself does support ECC.memory

 

[Nemesis 1]

Also, you can't notice sandy bridge stuttering in starcraft since it is just tiny little things moving around. I think FF makes sense.

Not sure what to make of the 1.8Ghz number. On the one hand, the performance is impressive, on the other hand, I expected more. Also, do we know whether or not Llano has Turbo?

Why would you expect more . The llano chip isn't a production chip. When its released it will have higher clocks alot higher and perform even better. I may not like AMD but gosh I not going to get excited about it being a low clocked chip, Thats expected at this time. It will also use much more joice. Thats why the video is nonsense. The llano chip is a test chip . The intel chip is a 45 watt embedded that only OEMS can buy . WE can't buy them

 

[Nemesis 1]

I can tell you the chipset listed and M/B can't becorrect as it has the wrong type of socket on it . So we have No way of knowing what was used here. I just saying AMD in the past has been underhanded and its not the distant past either. I give them credit tho for using the lastest driver. But they pretty much had to . As they got caught the last time with the zacata preview

 

[wahdangun]

Please ! It says no such thing . Yes I can see the NO ECC but unless my eyes decieve there is this ! That friend is intended as a MOUSE OVER . Read that . No I haven't checked to see if the M/B in question and its chipset is ECC ready . But it was listed in the specs on the OP video . I will go look at it now . But the CPU itself does support ECC.memory

so where is the prove that AMD use "crippled embedded system using ECC memory" PROVE IT????????????

and please use multi quote button, its there for a reason you know

yeah, you can't prove it don't you.

 

[Nemesis 1]

so where is the prove that AMD use "crippled embedded system using ECC memory" PROVE IT????????????

and please use multi quote button, its there for a reason you know

yeah, you can't prove it don't you.

With the video shown I don't have to prove anything . As the listed Hardware doesn't meet the specs of what cpu was used . I have every right to speculate . Given AMDs past comparisons and their call out of intel back in 05 its AMD that has to step up and give us full details of the Intel test set up . Please don't advise me on how to post . I preferr this way . As you haven't a clue whats going on here . If I take to long to post My post is lost and I need to refresh the page and sign in again . I fully expect that problem to be resolved very shortly

 

[Mopetar]

With the video shown I don't have to prove anything .

When you start making up crap about the test being rigged because it's a $2500 notebook with ECC memory, yes, you do have to prove your claims. Feel free to speculate all you want, but it actually helps if you have evidence to support that speculation.

 

[Arkadrel]

Nemesis1 instead of questioning everything, propaganda, marketing ploys, found a game intel drivers doesnt work on ect ect. It comes off sounding almost nutty.

open your eyes, and just look at the video, *if* everything was fair in this video... (which is most likely), isnt it impressive that the Llano does what it does?

I know even conspiracy theorists might be right from time to time, but... most of the time they just sound nutty.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Hay It matters really not to me . Other than the fact that its very likely I will never ever buy another AMD VPU and likely not a cpu . I have no doubt that the intel system in qustion plays exactly like the video shows. Its the choices AMD made and the miss information about the intel system used. I don't go for this sort of thing . I tried it once felt crappy about it. Live and learn

 

[Mopetar]

What misinformation? The posted the specifications of the system used. You've spend the entirety of this thread jumping on AMD for various things, none of which turned out to be true. If there's someone guilty of spreading misinformation or being underhanded it's you.

 

[Idontcare]

My laptop is dying, I think the fan crapped out and now it just shutdown whenever I try and do minor stuff with it.

Coretemp says the CPU is idling around 60C, maxes out at 95C when doing stuff like web browsing. The bottom is hot as hell, hot enough to feel like it is burning my hand when I press my hand on it.

At any rate I'm pissed because Llano isn't available and it very well looks like I might be forced into buying a laptop before it will be released.

When can we realistically expect to be able to purchase and take delivery of Llano-based laptops? August?

 

[busydude]

When can we realistically expect to be able to purchase and take delivery of Llano-based laptops? August?

I would think so. Rumor has it that AMD would be launching it at COMPUTEX(May 31st - June 4th).. so atleast 1-2 months later for wider availability. We are just seeing Bobcat based products hitting the shelves.

 

[Mopetar]

My laptop is dying, I think the fan crapped out and now it just shutdown whenever I try and do minor stuff with it.

Coretemp says the CPU is idling around 60C, maxes out at 95C when doing stuff like web browsing. The bottom is hot as hell, hot enough to feel like it is burning my hand when I press my hand on it.

At any rate I'm pissed because Llano isn't available and it very well looks like I might be forced into buying a laptop before it will be released.

When can we realistically expect to be able to purchase and take delivery of Llano-based laptops? August?

It'll probably be at least May before there's wide availability, at least based on most of the rumors floating around.

You could probably look into getting a Sandy Bridge notebook. Dell, HP, and the other manufacturers should be refreshing their low and midrange notebooks shortly. If you wanted something a little better, there're already several quad-core notebooks available from most manufacturers. On the other side of the spectrum you could grab a Atom/Bobcat netbook if it's mostly just for browsing.

Llano looks to be good, but I don't know if it'd be worth waiting for if you need something now.

 

[itsmydamnation]

I would think so. Rumor has it that AMD would be launching it at COMPUTEX(May 31st - June 4th).. so atleast 1-2 months later for wider availability. We are just seeing Bobcat based products hitting the shelves.

i think the difference will be that bobcat APU's have a much larger potencial target market then Llano based laptops. AMD have said Llano is going to laptops first so hopefully its not as hard/long as bobcat to see good supply.

 

[Mopetar]

i think the difference will be that bobcat APU's have a much larger potencial target market then Llano based laptops. AMD have said Llano is going to laptops first so hopefully its not as hard/long as bobcat to see good supply.

I don't know about that. Netbooks are a fairly small portion of the total notebook market and some speculate that tablets may cannibalize netbook sales. Maybe they just looked at Atom and realized that it was where Intel was weakest.

I think that Llano would have been able to target a much larger market, but Intel is doing well in this space right now. There could be plenty of other reasons, such as schedule-slips, performance of GF's 32 nm process, or any other number of reasons why Bobcat came out before Llano.

 

[itsmydamnation]

and thats what peope dont get on forums like this(the 1st world), bobcat is more then just netbooks/low end notebook/tablets. its mini ATX and itx as well. the product itself is very cheep, this opens up the massive market of the growing low and middle classes in places like india, china, brazil. your talking a target market with billions more people in it then Llano laptops market.

theres lots of money to be made in a market like that if you can get a product cheap enough with good enough performace and i think the E-350 does that. the 32/28nm products should be even more interesting for that market as well.

edit: If i was AMD i would be releasing high clocked SKU's just to this market(hopefully just not as multiplyer bump). who cares if you hit 30-40watts in an min ATX/ITX this market is about price/performance.

 

[halley]

[BTW, why does intel never get any flack for being so far behind on standards, image quality, and performance while NV and AMD have to push the boundries to be considered successful?? How come intel doesn't get any flack for not supporting dx11 or OpenCL on GPU, and reviewers turn a blind eye? IOW, why doesn't intel have to strive for the same standards as everyone else to be successful?[/QUOTE]

Engineering achievements alone are not enough. You have to do whatever it takes to convince Dell, HP, Acer... to use your products -which are not necessarily better than their competitors - rather than AMD's or NV's.

 

[Mopetar]

and thats what peope dont get on forums like this(the 1st world), bobcat is more then just netbooks/low end notebook/tablets. its mini ATX and itx as well. the product itself is very cheep, this opens up the massive market of the growing low and middle classes in places like india, china, brazil. your talking a target market with billions more people in it then Llano laptops market.

There's certainly opportunity, I won't deny that, but unless it translates into sales and expands the market at a rapid pace, notebooks are a significantly larger piece of pie and have better margins as well.

Additionally, in many places where PCs are not as widespread, cell phones have replaced them as the means to access the internet and communicate. It's possible that as the smart phones become more ubiquitous that PCs may be skipped entirely.

 

[itsmydamnation]

well there was already reports of certian manufactures selling all there bobcat APU's into this market and that they weren't bring there products to the "west" yet. I cant remember who is was, levono or sony i think.

assuming they keep the same rate as December AMD would have moved 4.2million bobcat APU's by now and there talking about being supply constrained, those have got to be going somewhere.

edit: the good thing for AMD is, they dont have to do anything to get into this market, there partners will do it by themselves, thats what happens when you make a product that can reach a new market, someone will see the profits and do the work themselves.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Engineering achievements alone are not enough. You have to do whatever it takes to convince Dell, HP, Acer... to use your products -which are not necessarily better than their competitors - rather than AMD's or NV's.

Or having a good enough graphics make sense to a vast majority of people. Intel's graphics may not be as feature rich, but in return they use less power, and do the things they need just as well as $600 graphics cards.

People who care about graphics almost always opt for video cards, and they will buy the faster chip. Those who don't care about graphics will still be better served by the faster chip because unless you are using Atoms, the CPU can handle most of the duties.

It's possible that as the smart phones become more ubiquitous that PCs may be skipped entirely.

Kinda like desktops are dead theory right? I think all form factors will do equally well. There's that overly focusing on one metric theory happening true again.

 

[drizek]

well there was already reports of certian manufactures selling all there bobcat APU's into this market and that they weren't bring there products to the "west" yet. I cant remember who is was, levono or sony i think.

assuming they keep the same rate as December AMD would have moved 4.2million bobcat APU's by now and there talking about being supply constrained, those have got to be going somewhere.

edit: the good thing for AMD is, they dont have to do anything to get into this market, there partners will do it by themselves, thats what happens when you make a product that can reach a new market, someone will see the profits and do the work themselves.

If I didn't have a macbook Air I probably would have bought a Fusion Thinkpad. Bobcat is a pretty nice chip.