Looking for IT salary advice...

[Cheetah8799]

Greetings fellow Anandtech members! I come to you today with a question I'm sure many of you have dealt with in the past. I'm sorry in advance for being so long-winded...


I have received an offer to work for an IT security company in the Minneapolis, MN area. This area has many IT opportunities, and can be rather competitive. I have had numerous interviews over the last 6 months, however many offers have been rather low considering the number of years of experience I have.

For this latest offer, I am very excited about working at the company and the team I would be working with, however I still feel they are low on the salary. I have 6 years of directly relevant experience doing software development and system administration (it's a dual-role sort of position). They are offering a salary in the upper $60k range, which is in my opinion on par with what someone with 2 years of experience might expect in this industry. When comparing to my current salary and benefits, it almost breaks even, and I know that I am in the lower end of the pay scale at my current company.

I've done the research on various websites that report salary averages in my area, and the numbers I am seeing there show that for a wide variety of jobs with similar responsibilities the pay range should be anywhere from $75k to $90k. Far higher than what I am being offered.

So based on that information, assuming I'm as valuable of an employee as I think I am, would it be inappropriate to question why they are offering such a low salary? Or to counter-offer with much higher salary, while also backing up my argument with my years of experience and market research?



Special thanks to anyone who made it this far and has any advice to offer.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

My advice, if you don't like the offer they give you give them a counter offer. All they can say is no, and if you already have a job what are you going to loose?

 

[multiband8303]

I myself now live in the Minneapolis area, and trust me upper 60k is somewhat decent - the cost of living is definitely not low, but nor is it rather high. Your $75k-$90k numbers might be off kilter when comparing to anywhere in the Midwest.

Make sure you let them know you've done your research, confirm with them your feeling and convey the emotion that you do feel that you are valuable enough to warrant the salary you desire, however, if they give you an additional 10% - take it. Minneapolis is a great place to live and work. Mind if I ask what company and in what part of Minneapolis? Downtown? Suburb? St Paul? Reason I ask is simply for the pricing of housing, if there offering you $60k in Edina you can roughly afford a cardboard box (the pricing of housing is drastic within a couple miles difference) However, I myself make around that range - and live in the Shakopee area, great place to live, and not too far away from downtown (where I work) and I am able to successfully support myself and my wife.

Once again though I am in the network administration role (also programming a little bit, but not enough to put that feather in my hat) anyways /rant

cliffs:
Minneapolis is a great place to live and work
Convey you feelings of your value
If they give you another 10% take it

Have a great day.

 

[Descartes]

$60k is indeed very low for someone with 6 years of experience, but that experience has to be valuable. Most dev managers don't do strictly on number of years, because unfortunately in this industry it says little about actual ability. You might be senior in years but junior in ability. I'm not saying this is the case, but it's something to consider.

 

[Mxylplyx]

It looks like that salary is in the ballpark. Mine is mid 70's after about 6 years in the southeast, which isnt too far off. Basing it purely on years experience oversimplifies it. How many technologies have you worked with? Have you ever led a team? Do you have a college degree? Those are more relevant when determing salary.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
It looks like that salary is in the ballpark. Mine is mid 70's after about 6 years in the southeast, which isnt too far off. Basing it purely on years experience oversimplifies it. How many technologies have you worked with? Have you ever led a team? Do you have a college degree? Those are more relevant when determing salary.

I think you guys are seriously underselling yourselves if you're still floating around the 70s. I've lived in several major US cities, and I started my career in Tulsa, OK. Not a large city by any measure, and I was pulling that with only a few years of experience.

IMO

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
It looks like that salary is in the ballpark. Mine is mid 70's after about 6 years in the southeast, which isnt too far off. Basing it purely on years experience oversimplifies it. How many technologies have you worked with? Have you ever led a team? Do you have a college degree? Those are more relevant when determing salary.

I think you guys are seriously underselling yourselves if you're still floating around the 70s. I've lived in several major US cities, and I started my career in Tulsa, OK. Not a large city by any measure, and I was pulling that with only a few years of experience.

IMO

As was I, but once you get up around that range, you dont get the big pay hikes that you used to. You start to float under that glass ceiling that can only be raised by more responsibility, or slow and steady yearly pay increases. I opt to keep less responsibility, which gives me time to hold 2 programming jobs, which puts me well into 6 figures.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
It looks like that salary is in the ballpark. Mine is mid 70's after about 6 years in the southeast, which isnt too far off. Basing it purely on years experience oversimplifies it. How many technologies have you worked with? Have you ever led a team? Do you have a college degree? Those are more relevant when determing salary.

I think you guys are seriously underselling yourselves if you're still floating around the 70s. I've lived in several major US cities, and I started my career in Tulsa, OK. Not a large city by any measure, and I was pulling that with only a few years of experience.

IMO

As was I, but once you get up around that range, you dont get the big pay hikes that you used to. You start to float under that glass ceiling that can only be raised by more responsibility, or slow and steady yearly pay increases. I opt to keep less responsibility, which gives me time to hold 2 programming jobs, which puts me well into 6 figures.

Certainly not a bad strategy on your part if you can swing it. You could make 6 figures at one job if you wanted, but that puts all the responsibility of two jobs into one

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
It looks like that salary is in the ballpark. Mine is mid 70's after about 6 years in the southeast, which isnt too far off. Basing it purely on years experience oversimplifies it. How many technologies have you worked with? Have you ever led a team? Do you have a college degree? Those are more relevant when determing salary.

I think you guys are seriously underselling yourselves if you're still floating around the 70s. I've lived in several major US cities, and I started my career in Tulsa, OK. Not a large city by any measure, and I was pulling that with only a few years of experience.

IMO

As was I, but once you get up around that range, you dont get the big pay hikes that you used to. You start to float under that glass ceiling that can only be raised by more responsibility, or slow and steady yearly pay increases. I opt to keep less responsibility, which gives me time to hold 2 programming jobs, which puts me well into 6 figures.

Certainly not a bad strategy on your part if you can swing it. You could make 6 figures at one job if you wanted, but that puts all the responsibility of two jobs into one

I live in Alabama, so 100K+ is rather hard to come by outside management. I also feel more comfortable having my salary diversified, so no single prick in a suit can take my entire salary away from me.

But yeah, 2 jobs is a bitch. 70+ hr weeks usually.

 

[fisheerman]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
It looks like that salary is in the ballpark. Mine is mid 70's after about 6 years in the southeast, which isnt too far off. Basing it purely on years experience oversimplifies it. How many technologies have you worked with? Have you ever led a team? Do you have a college degree? Those are more relevant when determing salary.

I think you guys are seriously underselling yourselves if you're still floating around the 70s. I've lived in several major US cities, and I started my career in Tulsa, OK. Not a large city by any measure, and I was pulling that with only a few years of experience.

IMO

As was I, but once you get up around that range, you dont get the big pay hikes that you used to. You start to float under that glass ceiling that can only be raised by more responsibility, or slow and steady yearly pay increases. I opt to keep less responsibility, which gives me time to hold 2 programming jobs, which puts me well into 6 figures.

Certainly not a bad strategy on your part if you can swing it. You could make 6 figures at one job if you wanted, but that puts all the responsibility of two jobs into one

I think what he means is in order to bust into the upper 90's / low six figures at one company you have to take on more reponsibility like management.:frown:

He like myself probably holds down a 40 job that he can do in his sleep and make a nice salary plus benefits and then get some contract work $55-$85 an hour and work 5 - 10 a week and make the salary doing straight up programming no management. And Id be willing to be work less hours than a development manager would.

this is the ideal scenario for someone looking to get into the 6 figures without all the headaches of management as well as the low price thresholds of the southeast.

Now there are areas were 6 figures is possible but no were i would want to live
DC, FairfaxVA, Atlanta etc

-fish

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: fisheerman

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
It looks like that salary is in the ballpark. Mine is mid 70's after about 6 years in the southeast, which isnt too far off. Basing it purely on years experience oversimplifies it. How many technologies have you worked with? Have you ever led a team? Do you have a college degree? Those are more relevant when determing salary.

I think you guys are seriously underselling yourselves if you're still floating around the 70s. I've lived in several major US cities, and I started my career in Tulsa, OK. Not a large city by any measure, and I was pulling that with only a few years of experience.

IMO

As was I, but once you get up around that range, you dont get the big pay hikes that you used to. You start to float under that glass ceiling that can only be raised by more responsibility, or slow and steady yearly pay increases. I opt to keep less responsibility, which gives me time to hold 2 programming jobs, which puts me well into 6 figures.

Certainly not a bad strategy on your part if you can swing it. You could make 6 figures at one job if you wanted, but that puts all the responsibility of two jobs into one

I think what he means is in order to bust into the upper 90's / low six figures at one company you have to take on more reponsibility like management.:frown:

Right. I understand that's what he meant, but that's not necessarily true either. I've spoken about it ad nauseum in other IT-related threads, so I won't bore everyone by repeating it here.

He like myself holds down a 40 job that he can do in his sleep and make a nice salary plus benefits and then get some contract work $55-$85 an hour and work 5 - 10 a week and make the salary doing straight up programming no management. And Id be willing to be work less hours than a development manager would.

-fish

That doesn't make any sense to me. If you can find contract work for $85 an hour, why on earth would you waste your time with something that pays ~$60-$80k/yr?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see you're counting benefits from the primary job and lack of management from the other. That is a good thing, but for the kind of money you pull with $85/hr you could easily have all the benefits you need (and a lot more). The management is a different problem.

 

[fisheerman]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: fisheerman

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
It looks like that salary is in the ballpark. Mine is mid 70's after about 6 years in the southeast, which isnt too far off. Basing it purely on years experience oversimplifies it. How many technologies have you worked with? Have you ever led a team? Do you have a college degree? Those are more relevant when determing salary.

I think you guys are seriously underselling yourselves if you're still floating around the 70s. I've lived in several major US cities, and I started my career in Tulsa, OK. Not a large city by any measure, and I was pulling that with only a few years of experience.

IMO

As was I, but once you get up around that range, you dont get the big pay hikes that you used to. You start to float under that glass ceiling that can only be raised by more responsibility, or slow and steady yearly pay increases. I opt to keep less responsibility, which gives me time to hold 2 programming jobs, which puts me well into 6 figures.

Certainly not a bad strategy on your part if you can swing it. You could make 6 figures at one job if you wanted, but that puts all the responsibility of two jobs into one

I think what he means is in order to bust into the upper 90's / low six figures at one company you have to take on more reponsibility like management.:frown:

Right. I understand that's what he meant, but that's not necessarily true either. I've spoken about it ad nauseum in other IT-related threads, so I won't bore everyone by repeating it here.

He like myself holds down a 40 job that he can do in his sleep and make a nice salary plus benefits and then get some contract work $55-$85 an hour and work 5 - 10 a week and make the salary doing straight up programming no management. And Id be willing to be work less hours than a development manager would.

-fish

That doesn't make any sense to me. If you can find contract work for $85 an hour, why on earth would you waste your time with something that pays ~$60-$80k/yr?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see you're counting benefits from the primary job and lack of management from the other. That is a good thing, but for the kind of money you pull with $85/hr you could easily have all the benefits you need (and a lot more). The management is a different problem.

Yeah but it isn't as easy once you have kids and a family, need a stable income and aren't dependant on the "next contract coming through" in order to get the bills paid.

I told myself that if I could sustain for two years at that rate $85 I would do it. Three years later it is still the same:|

I also don't enjoy the consultant world all that much so I like to pick and choose what I do and don't do. I've been there done that and don't want that to be my primary only source

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: fisheerman

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: fisheerman

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
It looks like that salary is in the ballpark. Mine is mid 70's after about 6 years in the southeast, which isnt too far off. Basing it purely on years experience oversimplifies it. How many technologies have you worked with? Have you ever led a team? Do you have a college degree? Those are more relevant when determing salary.

I think you guys are seriously underselling yourselves if you're still floating around the 70s. I've lived in several major US cities, and I started my career in Tulsa, OK. Not a large city by any measure, and I was pulling that with only a few years of experience.

IMO

As was I, but once you get up around that range, you dont get the big pay hikes that you used to. You start to float under that glass ceiling that can only be raised by more responsibility, or slow and steady yearly pay increases. I opt to keep less responsibility, which gives me time to hold 2 programming jobs, which puts me well into 6 figures.

Certainly not a bad strategy on your part if you can swing it. You could make 6 figures at one job if you wanted, but that puts all the responsibility of two jobs into one

I think what he means is in order to bust into the upper 90's / low six figures at one company you have to take on more reponsibility like management.:frown:

Right. I understand that's what he meant, but that's not necessarily true either. I've spoken about it ad nauseum in other IT-related threads, so I won't bore everyone by repeating it here.

He like myself holds down a 40 job that he can do in his sleep and make a nice salary plus benefits and then get some contract work $55-$85 an hour and work 5 - 10 a week and make the salary doing straight up programming no management. And Id be willing to be work less hours than a development manager would.

-fish

That doesn't make any sense to me. If you can find contract work for $85 an hour, why on earth would you waste your time with something that pays ~$60-$80k/yr?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see you're counting benefits from the primary job and lack of management from the other. That is a good thing, but for the kind of money you pull with $85/hr you could easily have all the benefits you need (and a lot more). The management is a different problem.

Yeah but it isn't as easy once you have kids and a family, need a stable income and aren't dependant on the "next contract coming through" in order to get the bills paid.

I told myself that if I could sustain for two years at that rate $85 I would do it. Three years later it is still the same:|

I also don't enjoy the consultant world all that much so I like to pick and choose what I do and don't do. I've been there done that and don't want that to be my primary only source

That is my situation. I have a wife and a baby at home, and need a stable income with stable benefits. My second job only pays $35/hr, but I get to do it for as many hours as I can handle, which is usually around 26 hours a week, which boosts me 65% over my primary income. It is a long term (18mo) contract, that might transition into a permanant part time position after my contract expires. If I were a full time contractor, I dont think my blood pressure could handle constantly worrying about where the next contract is going to come from.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: fisheerman

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: fisheerman

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
It looks like that salary is in the ballpark. Mine is mid 70's after about 6 years in the southeast, which isnt too far off. Basing it purely on years experience oversimplifies it. How many technologies have you worked with? Have you ever led a team? Do you have a college degree? Those are more relevant when determing salary.

I think you guys are seriously underselling yourselves if you're still floating around the 70s. I've lived in several major US cities, and I started my career in Tulsa, OK. Not a large city by any measure, and I was pulling that with only a few years of experience.

IMO

As was I, but once you get up around that range, you dont get the big pay hikes that you used to. You start to float under that glass ceiling that can only be raised by more responsibility, or slow and steady yearly pay increases. I opt to keep less responsibility, which gives me time to hold 2 programming jobs, which puts me well into 6 figures.

Certainly not a bad strategy on your part if you can swing it. You could make 6 figures at one job if you wanted, but that puts all the responsibility of two jobs into one

I think what he means is in order to bust into the upper 90's / low six figures at one company you have to take on more reponsibility like management.:frown:

Right. I understand that's what he meant, but that's not necessarily true either. I've spoken about it ad nauseum in other IT-related threads, so I won't bore everyone by repeating it here.

He like myself holds down a 40 job that he can do in his sleep and make a nice salary plus benefits and then get some contract work $55-$85 an hour and work 5 - 10 a week and make the salary doing straight up programming no management. And Id be willing to be work less hours than a development manager would.

-fish

That doesn't make any sense to me. If you can find contract work for $85 an hour, why on earth would you waste your time with something that pays ~$60-$80k/yr?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see you're counting benefits from the primary job and lack of management from the other. That is a good thing, but for the kind of money you pull with $85/hr you could easily have all the benefits you need (and a lot more). The management is a different problem.

Yeah but it isn't as easy once you have kids and a family, need a stable income and aren't dependant on the "next contract coming through" in order to get the bills paid.

I told myself that if I could sustain for two years at that rate $85 I would do it. Three years later it is still the same:|

I also don't enjoy the consultant world all that much so I like to pick and choose what I do and don't do. I've been there done that and don't want that to be my primary only source

Sure, I can understand that. It's not for everyone. It's a give/take on both sides, and both have their frustrating points

I've been a consultant for about 6 years now, and I'd have a very hard time working full-time somewhere. It takes a while to get established, but once you do there isn't much concern about waiting for the next contract. I thrive on a little volatility though :Q

 

[fisheerman]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: fisheerman

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: fisheerman

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
It looks like that salary is in the ballpark. Mine is mid 70's after about 6 years in the southeast, which isnt too far off. Basing it purely on years experience oversimplifies it. How many technologies have you worked with? Have you ever led a team? Do you have a college degree? Those are more relevant when determing salary.

I think you guys are seriously underselling yourselves if you're still floating around the 70s. I've lived in several major US cities, and I started my career in Tulsa, OK. Not a large city by any measure, and I was pulling that with only a few years of experience.

IMO

As was I, but once you get up around that range, you dont get the big pay hikes that you used to. You start to float under that glass ceiling that can only be raised by more responsibility, or slow and steady yearly pay increases. I opt to keep less responsibility, which gives me time to hold 2 programming jobs, which puts me well into 6 figures.

Certainly not a bad strategy on your part if you can swing it. You could make 6 figures at one job if you wanted, but that puts all the responsibility of two jobs into one

I think what he means is in order to bust into the upper 90's / low six figures at one company you have to take on more reponsibility like management.:frown:

Right. I understand that's what he meant, but that's not necessarily true either. I've spoken about it ad nauseum in other IT-related threads, so I won't bore everyone by repeating it here.

He like myself holds down a 40 job that he can do in his sleep and make a nice salary plus benefits and then get some contract work $55-$85 an hour and work 5 - 10 a week and make the salary doing straight up programming no management. And Id be willing to be work less hours than a development manager would.

-fish

That doesn't make any sense to me. If you can find contract work for $85 an hour, why on earth would you waste your time with something that pays ~$60-$80k/yr?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see you're counting benefits from the primary job and lack of management from the other. That is a good thing, but for the kind of money you pull with $85/hr you could easily have all the benefits you need (and a lot more). The management is a different problem.

Yeah but it isn't as easy once you have kids and a family, need a stable income and aren't dependant on the "next contract coming through" in order to get the bills paid.

I told myself that if I could sustain for two years at that rate $85 I would do it. Three years later it is still the same:|

I also don't enjoy the consultant world all that much so I like to pick and choose what I do and don't do. I've been there done that and don't want that to be my primary only source

Sure, I can understand that. It's not for everyone. It's a give/take on both sides, and both have their frustrating points

I've been a consultant for about 6 years now, and I'd have a very hard time working full-time somewhere. It takes a while to get established, but once you do there isn't much concern about waiting for the next contract. I thrive on a little volatility though :Q

I was in consulting for about 8 years. I enjoyed it in my early 20's and had a lot of fun traveling and stuff but it got old real quick. I jumped to a very, very, very stable development job with the best benefits possible............hehehe
and kept all of my development contacts and it has paid off tremendously.

Mostly quality of life type stuff...no stress, no worries etc

what is your development environment work expertise?

 

[Cheetah8799]

Wow, thanks for all the great replies everyone.

I do plan to go back with a counter offer, and I am just trying to think of how to word it in regards to my experience related to the position, current salary range, etc. I also just wanted to verify that I'm not way out there in regards to Salary. I currently live in Roseville MN, and the company is on the NE side of downtown MPLS. So for me, cost of living is low, but I don't want to under-sell myself in regards to the market value I have to offer.

As for my personal history, yeah, the 6 years I mentioned are all experience specific to this position. It's a big part of why I'm so interested in it, and why I feel like they are coming in really low on salary. I also have a couple years previous where I was basically a desktop tech, which I'm not including in my total figures. I also have a 4 year computer science degree, and have lead a handful of projects and have had team leadership responsibilities.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: fisheerman

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: fisheerman

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: fisheerman

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
It looks like that salary is in the ballpark. Mine is mid 70's after about 6 years in the southeast, which isnt too far off. Basing it purely on years experience oversimplifies it. How many technologies have you worked with? Have you ever led a team? Do you have a college degree? Those are more relevant when determing salary.

I think you guys are seriously underselling yourselves if you're still floating around the 70s. I've lived in several major US cities, and I started my career in Tulsa, OK. Not a large city by any measure, and I was pulling that with only a few years of experience.

IMO

As was I, but once you get up around that range, you dont get the big pay hikes that you used to. You start to float under that glass ceiling that can only be raised by more responsibility, or slow and steady yearly pay increases. I opt to keep less responsibility, which gives me time to hold 2 programming jobs, which puts me well into 6 figures.

Certainly not a bad strategy on your part if you can swing it. You could make 6 figures at one job if you wanted, but that puts all the responsibility of two jobs into one

I think what he means is in order to bust into the upper 90's / low six figures at one company you have to take on more reponsibility like management.:frown:

Right. I understand that's what he meant, but that's not necessarily true either. I've spoken about it ad nauseum in other IT-related threads, so I won't bore everyone by repeating it here.

He like myself holds down a 40 job that he can do in his sleep and make a nice salary plus benefits and then get some contract work $55-$85 an hour and work 5 - 10 a week and make the salary doing straight up programming no management. And Id be willing to be work less hours than a development manager would.

-fish

That doesn't make any sense to me. If you can find contract work for $85 an hour, why on earth would you waste your time with something that pays ~$60-$80k/yr?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see you're counting benefits from the primary job and lack of management from the other. That is a good thing, but for the kind of money you pull with $85/hr you could easily have all the benefits you need (and a lot more). The management is a different problem.

Yeah but it isn't as easy once you have kids and a family, need a stable income and aren't dependant on the "next contract coming through" in order to get the bills paid.

I told myself that if I could sustain for two years at that rate $85 I would do it. Three years later it is still the same:|

I also don't enjoy the consultant world all that much so I like to pick and choose what I do and don't do. I've been there done that and don't want that to be my primary only source

Sure, I can understand that. It's not for everyone. It's a give/take on both sides, and both have their frustrating points

I've been a consultant for about 6 years now, and I'd have a very hard time working full-time somewhere. It takes a while to get established, but once you do there isn't much concern about waiting for the next contract. I thrive on a little volatility though :Q

I was in consulting for about 8 years. I enjoyed it in my early 20's and had a lot of fun traveling and stuff but it got old real quick. I jumped to a very, very, very stable development job with the best benefits possible............hehehe
and kept all of my development contacts and it has paid off tremendously.

Mostly quality of life type stuff...no stress, no worries etc

Completely understand. Maximizing your earnings in your 20s is the best time to do it. Create a nice financial foundation and then let it grow the rest of your life.

what is your development environment work expertise?

I focus on .NET in terms of environment, but have expertise in *nix w/ C, C++, and some Java. Most of my work is now around architecture, business process, mentoring, leading, etc.

What about you?

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: Cheetah8799
Wow, thanks for all the great replies everyone.

I do plan to go back with a counter offer, and I am just trying to think of how to word it in regards to my experience related to the position, current salary range, etc. I also just wanted to verify that I'm not way out there in regards to Salary. I currently live in Roseville MN, and the company is on the NE side of downtown MPLS. So for me, cost of living is low, but I don't want to under-sell myself in regards to the market value I have to offer.

As for my personal history, yeah, the 6 years I mentioned are all experience specific to this position. It's a big part of why I'm so interested in it, and why I feel like they are coming in really low on salary. I also have a couple years previous where I was basically a desktop tech, which I'm not including in my total figures. I also have a 4 year computer science degree, and have lead a handful of projects and have had team leadership responsibilities.

You should be at 90k+ with that (at least based on my experience here in Chicago).

 

[fisheerman]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: fisheerman

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: fisheerman

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: fisheerman

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
It looks like that salary is in the ballpark. Mine is mid 70's after about 6 years in the southeast, which isnt too far off. Basing it purely on years experience oversimplifies it. How many technologies have you worked with? Have you ever led a team? Do you have a college degree? Those are more relevant when determing salary.

I think you guys are seriously underselling yourselves if you're still floating around the 70s. I've lived in several major US cities, and I started my career in Tulsa, OK. Not a large city by any measure, and I was pulling that with only a few years of experience.

IMO

As was I, but once you get up around that range, you dont get the big pay hikes that you used to. You start to float under that glass ceiling that can only be raised by more responsibility, or slow and steady yearly pay increases. I opt to keep less responsibility, which gives me time to hold 2 programming jobs, which puts me well into 6 figures.

Certainly not a bad strategy on your part if you can swing it. You could make 6 figures at one job if you wanted, but that puts all the responsibility of two jobs into one

I think what he means is in order to bust into the upper 90's / low six figures at one company you have to take on more reponsibility like management.:frown:

Right. I understand that's what he meant, but that's not necessarily true either. I've spoken about it ad nauseum in other IT-related threads, so I won't bore everyone by repeating it here.

He like myself holds down a 40 job that he can do in his sleep and make a nice salary plus benefits and then get some contract work $55-$85 an hour and work 5 - 10 a week and make the salary doing straight up programming no management. And Id be willing to be work less hours than a development manager would.

-fish

That doesn't make any sense to me. If you can find contract work for $85 an hour, why on earth would you waste your time with something that pays ~$60-$80k/yr?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see you're counting benefits from the primary job and lack of management from the other. That is a good thing, but for the kind of money you pull with $85/hr you could easily have all the benefits you need (and a lot more). The management is a different problem.

Yeah but it isn't as easy once you have kids and a family, need a stable income and aren't dependant on the "next contract coming through" in order to get the bills paid.

I told myself that if I could sustain for two years at that rate $85 I would do it. Three years later it is still the same:|

I also don't enjoy the consultant world all that much so I like to pick and choose what I do and don't do. I've been there done that and don't want that to be my primary only source

Sure, I can understand that. It's not for everyone. It's a give/take on both sides, and both have their frustrating points

I've been a consultant for about 6 years now, and I'd have a very hard time working full-time somewhere. It takes a while to get established, but once you do there isn't much concern about waiting for the next contract. I thrive on a little volatility though :Q

I was in consulting for about 8 years. I enjoyed it in my early 20's and had a lot of fun traveling and stuff but it got old real quick. I jumped to a very, very, very stable development job with the best benefits possible............hehehe
and kept all of my development contacts and it has paid off tremendously.

Mostly quality of life type stuff...no stress, no worries etc

Completely understand. Maximizing your earnings in your 20s is the best time to do it. Create a nice financial foundation and then let it grow the rest of your life.

what is your development environment work expertise?

I focus on .NET in terms of environment, but have expertise in *nix w/ C, C++, and some Java. Most of my work is now around architecture, business process, mentoring, leading, etc.

What about you?

mostly .NET architecture. enterprise web applications.