Mac Vs. PC

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Kensai
But still, Mac's don't compare to x86 workstations. PC's are easily upgradable by most informed people.
Also, a high end SCSI setup will *break* the firewire 800 bus.

Some Macs are easily upgradable too - in fact, they're significantly easier to upgrade than some PCs, if speaking of PowerMac G4-class machines. There's no motherboard issues to worry about - just remove the CPU, plug in a new one, and perhaps plug in the fan to the motherboard's power. Total time, perhaps 3 minutes....to go from 300 mhz to 2000 mhz X2 - quite a change.

 

[kini62]

Try upgrading the water-cooled 2.5 G5 in a couple of years. Not going to happen.

Warranty on your G5 runs out, you didn't get Apple Care. Motherboard (errr "Logic Board") takes a crap. There's a $1000 repair bill. About 3 times what it would be for a dual Opteron or Xeon system, plus there's no way you could do it yourself since Apple wont sell you the board to begin with.

I like the OS. It gets better and better everyday and is about a year and a half ahead of Windoze, but their hardware is a year an half behind the Wintel world. Still on AGP, still on DDR 400, using 3 year old video cards on the "high end" G5 towers.

Processor for processor the G5 is probably close to that of equally clocked Athlon 64s, but they run even hotter than the Prescott. 2.5 G5s run in the 80s C underload and that's WITH LIQUID COOLING.

What Apple needs to do is port their OS over to run on x86, show MS how it's done and get out of the computer hardware business.

Cutting edge software and obsolete hardware. Can anyone else see what's wrong with this picture?

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: kini62
Try upgrading the water-cooled 2.5 G5 in a couple of years. Not going to happen.

Warranty on your G5 runs out, you didn't get Apple Care. Motherboard (errr "Logic Board") takes a crap. There's a $1000 repair bill. About 3 times what it would be for a dual Opteron or Xeon system, plus there's no way you could do it yourself since Apple wont sell you the board to begin with.

I like the OS. It gets better and better everyday and is about a year and a half ahead of Windoze, but their hardware is a year an half behind the Wintel world. Still on AGP, still on DDR 400, using 3 year old video cards on the "high end" G5 towers.

Processor for processor the G5 is probably close to that of equally clocked Athlon 64s, but they run even hotter than the Prescott. 2.5 G5s run in the 80s C underload and that's WITH LIQUID COOLING.

What Apple needs to do is port their OS over to run on x86, show MS how it's done and get out of the computer hardware business.

Cutting edge software and obsolete hardware. Can anyone else see what's wrong with this picture?

I agree with most of your points, but I wouldn't call an ATI X8xx series card a 3-year old video card. 6-months behind Wintel, perhaps.

Run on x86? You mean like Be tried to do? (Remember Be?)

 

[imported_Lucifer]

I will consider purchasing a G5 when the current technologies start coming in Apple's G5's. Until then, my G4 400mhz makes me happy.

 

[Childs]

Originally posted by: fatal

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy

Originally posted by: fatal

Originally posted by: tooltime
mac makes a server os too, i hear it's also easy to use

Really, I didn't know enough peeps had macs to need a server......LOL

Cisco Systems ditched their old server systems and replaced them with Apple Xserve G5's, running OS X 10.3 Server.

Must of got a GREAT deal on that useless GARBAGE

This coming from someone with a cheap ass ghetto PC in his/her sig.

 

[hippotautamus]

Macs don't need to have a current generation video card, they're not gaming computers. I will not argue that Macophiles know stuff about computers, because they don't - just don't knock Mac so much. They cater to the home and office markets, where frames per second sounds suspiciously like a greek proverb and ease of use and productivity are king, not rendering gargantuan 3d models 2% faster than your old computer at s $3000 premium. So to speak.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler
Hmmmmm.......
My PC runs too many different programs. You say that won't be a problem?
About $500 for a 3 year old vid card, $400 for DDR333, and $400 for a "superdrive" (a.k.a. pioneer a-04)?
Throw in a 1 button mouse, no upgradability, and a pair of Birkenstocks, and you've got a deal!

What cant you upgrade on the mac? Please tell me, because I upgraded the cpu, optical drive, video card and also the SCSI controller. Oh yeah and that hard drive thing, it was upgraded too. People like you that dont know what they are talking about should just keep quiet and stop trying to spread FUD

I find it interesting that the upgadability is the only point you take issue with.

BTW, "people like you" can go pound a Mini Cooper.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler
Hmmmmm.......
My PC runs too many different programs. You say that won't be a problem?
About $500 for a 3 year old vid card, $400 for DDR333, and $400 for a "superdrive" (a.k.a. pioneer a-04)?
Throw in a 1 button mouse, no upgradability, and a pair of Birkenstocks, and you've got a deal!

What cant you upgrade on the mac? Please tell me, because I upgraded the cpu, optical drive, video card and also the SCSI controller. Oh yeah and that hard drive thing, it was upgraded too. People like you that dont know what they are talking about should just keep quiet and stop trying to spread FUD

I find it interesting that the upgadability is the only point you take issue with.

BTW, "people like you" can go pound a Mini Cooper.

The ATI X800XT is not a 3 year old video card. It does not cost $400 for DDR 333. It does not cost $400 for a superdrive. Macs are fully upgradeable. And who says you need to use the 1 button mouse? Buy a multi button mouse.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler
Hmmmmm.......
My PC runs too many different programs. You say that won't be a problem?
About $500 for a 3 year old vid card, $400 for DDR333, and $400 for a "superdrive" (a.k.a. pioneer a-04)?
Throw in a 1 button mouse, no upgradability, and a pair of Birkenstocks, and you've got a deal!

What cant you upgrade on the mac? Please tell me, because I upgraded the cpu, optical drive, video card and also the SCSI controller. Oh yeah and that hard drive thing, it was upgraded too. People like you that dont know what they are talking about should just keep quiet and stop trying to spread FUD

I find it interesting that the upgadability is the only point you take issue with.

BTW, "people like you" can go pound a Mini Cooper.

The ATI X800XT is not a 3 year old video card. It does not cost $400 for DDR 333. It does not cost $400 for a superdrive. Macs are fully upgradeable. And who says you need to use the 1 button mouse? Buy a multi button mouse.

The dual 2.7G machine (the top model) costs a whopping US$2999. For that price, you get 2 sticks of 256MB DDR400, a one button mouse, and a Radeon 9650 video card. Don't sport a woody over that fantabulous video card just yet, because $3000 does not get you a monitor. Your ATI X800XT is not listed as an option, the GeForce 6800 Ultra is an additional $450.

I'm happy for you Jobs devotees that you can finally get a respectable performing computer, but don't defend these lifestyle accessories like they are relevant to modern computing.

Thank you, Gurck, for this link.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: CSammy
Where to begin, perhaps the commentor that thought it was "proposterous" that Tiger isn't a full 64-bit operating system? Or the commentor that thought it would take half a refrigerator to cool a dual Opteron, based on PENTIUM specs? Plenty more too, good read for a laugh.

And we read about PC users that use the cdrom as a coffee cup holder. The comments of the ignorant few are worthless. :roll:

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler
The dual 2.7G machine (the top model) costs a whopping US$2999. For that price, you get 2 sticks of 256MB DDR400,

Apple is known to be stingy with RAM. Most of us have some DDR400 lying around unused (I've got like 2+ GB of the crap). Put it to use.

a one button mouse,

Inconsequential. I can find a half dozen mice in my house. You want USB, PS/2, or Serial?

and a Radeon 9650 video card.

And you need more for what? Word? Excell? gcc?

I'm happy for you Jobs devotees that you can finally get a respectable performing computer, but don't defend these lifestyle accessories like they are relevant to modern computing.

With the reports of scientists and developers switching to the mac platform, I think it is quite relevant. With the advances in computing that Apple has provided, I think it's relevant.

When was the last time Dell came out with a cool technology?

Thank you, Gurck, for this link.

That was pretty funny when it first came out.

 

[kini62]

Bottom line with the Mac line is that they're overpriced by at least 25% based on performance. There are very few apps that a dual G5 (at any speed) can out perform even a single high end P4 or Athlon 64. When the dual core x86 chips go mainstream it will only get worse.

I though for sure Apple would step it up and offer dual core chips this current "upgrade". Considering how the G5 is currently maxxed out GHZ wise. The processor runs HOT, HOT HOT!.

Dual core not ready so they throw the Mac faithful a bone (with no meat on it) of a speed bump (well barely a bump more like a little lump or wrinkle), throw in a little (very little) cheap ram, upgrade the stock video card to something not quite as old and outdated, but still old and outdated, add a Dual Layer burner and have the Mac faithful beating down their doors to get one.

Now with the current iMac revision, that one to me is by far the best deal, especially the 20" model. If I hadn't bought already it would really temp me to give a Mac one more try.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler
Hmmmmm.......
My PC runs too many different programs. You say that won't be a problem?
About $500 for a 3 year old vid card, $400 for DDR333, and $400 for a "superdrive" (a.k.a. pioneer a-04)?
Throw in a 1 button mouse, no upgradability, and a pair of Birkenstocks, and you've got a deal!

What cant you upgrade on the mac? Please tell me, because I upgraded the cpu, optical drive, video card and also the SCSI controller. Oh yeah and that hard drive thing, it was upgraded too. People like you that dont know what they are talking about should just keep quiet and stop trying to spread FUD

I find it interesting that the upgadability is the only point you take issue with.

BTW, "people like you" can go pound a Mini Cooper.

The ATI X800XT is not a 3 year old video card. It does not cost $400 for DDR 333. It does not cost $400 for a superdrive. Macs are fully upgradeable. And who says you need to use the 1 button mouse? Buy a multi button mouse.

The dual 2.7G machine (the top model) costs a whopping US$2999. For that price, you get 2 sticks of 256MB DDR400, a one button mouse, and a Radeon 9650 video card. Don't sport a woody over that fantabulous video card just yet, because $3000 does not get you a monitor. Your ATI X800XT is not listed as an option, the GeForce 6800 Ultra is an additional $450.

I'm happy for you Jobs devotees that you can finally get a respectable performing computer, but don't defend these lifestyle accessories like they are relevant to modern computing.

Thank you, Gurck, for this link.

The 6800 Ultra DDL is not a 3 year old video card. The Radeon 9650 that can actually support the 30'' Apple Cinema Display is not a 3 year old video card. You get 2 sticks of DDR 400 512mb, not 333, which does not cost you $400. A superdrive does not cost $400. It's not difficult to replace a 1 button mouse with a multi button mouse.

 

[imported_whatever]

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: Kensai
But still, Mac's don't compare to x86 workstations. PC's are easily upgradable by most informed people.
Also, a high end SCSI setup will *break* the firewire 800 bus.

Some Macs are easily upgradable too - in fact, they're significantly easier to upgrade than some PCs, if speaking of PowerMac G4-class machines. There's no motherboard issues to worry about - just remove the CPU, plug in a new one, and perhaps plug in the fan to the motherboard's power. Total time, perhaps 3 minutes....to go from 300 mhz to 2000 mhz X2 - quite a change.

there are 2GHz X2 G4s available? Link?

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: whatever

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: Kensai
But still, Mac's don't compare to x86 workstations. PC's are easily upgradable by most informed people.
Also, a high end SCSI setup will *break* the firewire 800 bus.

Some Macs are easily upgradable too - in fact, they're significantly easier to upgrade than some PCs, if speaking of PowerMac G4-class machines. There's no motherboard issues to worry about - just remove the CPU, plug in a new one, and perhaps plug in the fan to the motherboard's power. Total time, perhaps 3 minutes....to go from 300 mhz to 2000 mhz X2 - quite a change.

there are 2GHz X2 G4s available? Link?

If by the X2 you mean Dual, I do not know. But I do know that their are single 2GHz G4 upgrades. I may purchase one myself.

Link

 

[The Boston Dangler]

What you trendy fruits don't seem to understand is for $3000 you get a mouse you immediately replace, and a video card ill-suited for video games. oh wait, are there any 3D games? Quake? No thanks. I'll build a much better comp,with monitor, for $2000, and blow the remaining grand in Las Vegas or something. See ya at Starbuck's!

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler
What you trendy fruits don't seem to understand is for $3000 you get a mouse you immediately replace,

No, I know how to use the keyboard for the "right click."

and a video card ill-suited for video games.

I don't play many games. I have a very similar x86 based PC to yours.

oh wait, are there any 3D games? Quake? No thanks.

Get a ps2. Get an x86 based PC, run Windows on it. Play some games. Whoopty friggin do.

I'll build a much better comp,with monitor, for $2000, and blow the remaining grand in Las Vegas or something.

I thought you weren't buying a new computer.

See ya at Starbuck's!

Ew.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler
What you trendy fruits don't seem to understand is for $3000 you get a mouse you immediately replace, and a video card ill-suited for video games. oh wait, are there any 3D games? Quake? No thanks. I'll build a much better comp,with monitor, for $2000, and blow the remaining grand in Las Vegas or something. See ya at Starbuck's!

I don't know anyone who keeps the stock mouse they get with their new PC. And everyone who has built their own PC has a multi button mouse they purchased.

Gaming was never intended for the Mac. Also, keep in mind, the ATI Radeon 9650 is a cheaply priced card, but it CAN run the 30'' Apple Cinema Display. There are PC video cards that can run the 30'' display, but are pricey.

You PC zealots are bigger tossers than I thought.

 

[shock311]

Thx OP for this very comical thread. I'll say that i'll take a pc over a mac any day only cuz I can build a pc from components i can select(cpu, gpu, ram, heat sinks, cases, etc....the list goes on). Until I can go to a store like newegg. pick an apple cpu and choose from a huge assortment of third party products(asus, msi, so on....) and build the rest of my system catered around that cpu then i'll try out apple.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Where's the default compiler in Windows? Grep? I didn't pay $xxx for this OS to _not_ get a copy of a major program like grep did I?

This "cmd" shell is pretty weak, where's ksh?

I think I got a defective disc, there's no perl installed.

This XP sp2 firewall is pretty weak, it doesn't support any real advanced features.

ew! A registry! Kill it quick!

U:\>cvs
'cvs' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.

SSH is missing too.

 

[shoRunner]

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy

The ATI X800XT is not a 3 year old video card. It does not cost $400 for DDR 333. It does not cost $400 for a superdrive. Macs are fully upgradeable. And who says you need to use the 1 button mouse? Buy a multi button mouse.

Depending on what memory upgrade you get from apple. It may cost alot more than $400, try $600 for 2x1gb of memory.

Apple products are over priced compared to their PC counterparts of equal performance. There is no denying this, but you also get something that is more stylish and unique. For some these benefits outweigh the price issue...as for the rest of the world...

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: shoRunner

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy

The ATI X800XT is not a 3 year old video card. It does not cost $400 for DDR 333. It does not cost $400 for a superdrive. Macs are fully upgradeable. And who says you need to use the 1 button mouse? Buy a multi button mouse.

Depending on what memory upgrade you get from apple. It may cost alot more than $400, try $600 for 2x1gb of memory.

Apple products are over priced compared to their PC counterparts of equal performance. There is no denying this, but you also get something that is more stylish and unique. For some these benefits outweigh the price issue...as for the rest of the world...

Only newbies buy ram from Apple. :roll:

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: shoRunner

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy

The ATI X800XT is not a 3 year old video card. It does not cost $400 for DDR 333. It does not cost $400 for a superdrive. Macs are fully upgradeable. And who says you need to use the 1 button mouse? Buy a multi button mouse.

Depending on what memory upgrade you get from apple. It may cost alot more than $400, try $600 for 2x1gb of memory.

Apple products are over priced compared to their PC counterparts of equal performance. There is no denying this, but you also get something that is more stylish and unique. For some these benefits outweigh the price issue...as for the rest of the world...

He was talking about 2 512mb sticks. It is not $400 for 2 512mb sticks. And Apple does not charge $600 for 2x1gb. It's $450.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: whatever

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: Kensai
But still, Mac's don't compare to x86 workstations. PC's are easily upgradable by most informed people.
Also, a high end SCSI setup will *break* the firewire 800 bus.

Some Macs are easily upgradable too - in fact, they're significantly easier to upgrade than some PCs, if speaking of PowerMac G4-class machines. There's no motherboard issues to worry about - just remove the CPU, plug in a new one, and perhaps plug in the fan to the motherboard's power. Total time, perhaps 3 minutes....to go from 300 mhz to 2000 mhz X2 - quite a change.

there are 2GHz X2 G4s available? Link?

The usual Mac suspects have 1.8 to 2.0 Ghz G4s available as upgrade cards for PowerMac G4 boxes ... been out for a few weeks, maybe a month or two.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler
What you trendy fruits don't seem to understand is for $3000 you get a mouse you immediately replace, and a video card ill-suited for video games. oh wait, are there any 3D games? Quake? No thanks. I'll build a much better comp,with monitor, for $2000, and blow the remaining grand in Las Vegas or something. See ya at Starbuck's!

I've not seen anyone here disagree that Macs are very expensive (most of them, anyway) and are even more expensive when compared with roll-your-own computers. Then again, you've also got to *support* those roll-your-own computers, too.