male and female salaries?

[her209]

No shit Sherlock. But the law doesn't say that it has to be paid leave, just that they are required to give leave and keep your job for you. As soon as companies pay for the leave as a benefit, this is where they start looking at salaries to even out that benefit. Hence one reason why women, on average, make less.

What about women who don't have plans to or can't bear any more children? They should not get less pay simply because they were born a woman. If a company wants to pay them less because they aren't working, then give them unpaid leave.

But for your theory that women make less because they are getting paid maternity leave, a majority of companies would either have to doing it or a small minority of companies would have to be severely underpaying their female workers as compared to their male counterparts to make it average. Both are unlikely scenarios.

 

[nehalem256]

Those numbers say there is a difference... are you going to deny that?

Men make more than women. This is not proof of discrimination or unequal pay for equal work. Which is what paycheck fairness is about right?

 

[Slew Foot]

I know of many physicians groups that refuse to hire young women because they get pregnant and need lots of time off. Its too expensive and difficult to find people to take the extra call and patients when theyre gone.

 

[nehalem256]

What about women who don't have plans to or can't bear any more children? They should not get less pay simply because they were born a woman. If a company wants to pay them less because they aren't working, then give them unpaid leave.

But for your theory that women make less because they are getting paid maternity leave, a majority of companies would either have to doing it or a small minority of companies would have to be severely underpaying their female workers as compared to their male counterparts to make it average. Both are unlikely scenarios.

And they dont. Please consult this article from the NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/14/us/14iht-letter14.html

Or is the NYT now part of the right wing "War on Women"

 

[xBiffx]

Weird, every company I've worked for didn't pay for paternity leave. I've never heard of a company having different leave policies for a woman than a man either. See how anecdotal evidence works!

Not basing any of this on anecdotal evidence. Its a fact that some companies pay for maternity leave. This can easily be seen as the reason why they pay women less than men. My anecdotal evidence was simply to show that I know first hand, this is the case in some of the companies that I have worked at, nothing more. As I stated in my first post, this is my opinion for some of the reason for the gap.

Saying men are also required to have leave doesn't change any of this, which is about the only thing you have stated in not so few words.

 

[schneiderguy]

That's an opinion piece and therefore suspect. The pay gap is real, although if you do take into account and correct for the factors that the author of the opinion piece brings up... it's smaller than 7%

http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender Wage Gap Final Report.pdf

Read the US Dept. of Labor study that was linked. The actual "wage gap" is between 5-7% and can be explained by everything the author of the CBS article said.

 

[nehalem256]

The law of large numbers states that given enough trials(in this case workers) things should average out to the expected result.
If there was no bias the expected results should be the same.
Which based on those numbers is clearly not the case.

Except that your numbers are not adjusted for even obvious things like experience and hours worked.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...1838036.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEFTSecondBucket

In 2007, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 27 percent of male full-time workers had workweeks of 41 or more hours, compared with 15 percent of female full-time workers; meanwhile, just 4 percent of full-time men worked 35 to 39 hours a week, while 12 percent of women did. Since FTYR men work more than FTYR women do, it shouldn't be surprising that the men, on average, earn more.

 

[her209]

Not basing any of this on anecdotal evidence. Its a fact that some companies pay for maternity leave. This can easily be seen as the reason why they pay women less than men. My anecdotal evidence was simply to show that I know first hand, this is the case in some of the companies that I have worked at, nothing more. As I stated in my first post, this is my opinion for some of the reason for the gap.

Saying men are also required to have leave doesn't change any of this, which is about the only thing you have stated in not so few words.

Please post the names of said companies then.

 

[schneiderguy]

What about women who don't have plans to or can't bear any more children? They should not get less pay simply because they were born a woman. If a company wants to pay them less because they aren't working, then give them unpaid leave.

I'm a safe driver (no tickets or accidents in 6 years) and I still have to pay (much higher) male insurance rates.

When are the Democrats going to correct that inequality?

Oh wait, I'm a white male which means they don't give a shit about me.

 

[Matthiasa]

Men make more than women. This is not proof of discrimination or unequal pay for equal work. Which is what paycheck fairness is about right?

Its about large numbers.
With a sample size large enough the actual results should match the expected result.
People working hard or being lazy gets averaged out.
If there was no bias the expected results should be similar and they often are not.

Except that your numbers are not adjusted for even obvious things like experience and hours worked.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...1838036.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEFTSecondBucket

For a salaried position working more doesn't equate to making more.
And experience, after a point, doesn't equal productivity.
Funny how that works.

 

[xBiffx]

What about women who don't have plans to or can't bear any more children? They should not get less pay simply because they were born a woman. If a company wants to pay them less because they aren't working, then give them unpaid leave.

But for your theory that women make less because they are getting paid maternity leave, a majority of companies would either have to doing it or a small minority of companies would have to be severely underpaying their female workers as compared to their male counterparts to make it average. Both are unlikely scenarios.

A majority of companies do pay women less. I doubt they are about to come out and say why publicly but from what I have seen, the maternity leave issue can be one explanation.

I was quite clear in my first post that I don't agree with this practice but that doesn't mean that it isn't or couldn't be happening. Women can get pregnant, men cannot. Those are the facts of life and like it or not women bring with them a greater liability because of it. To ask employers to just ignore that is silly and non realistic. Companies are within their rights to decide pay as they see fit.

 

[schneiderguy]

Its about large numbers.
With a sample size large enough the actual results should match the expected result.
People working hard or being lazy gets averaged out.
If there was no bias the expected results should be similar and they often are not.

The only "bias" is that women are less productive than men. Therefore they earn less money.

 

[xBiffx]

Please post the names of said companies then.

Sorry, I am not about to tell you where I work, or have worked, not gonna happen. I will tell you that a majority of companies in the pharma, biotech, and engineering fields do this. Actually I thought this was the rule, and not the exception. It makes good PR sense to encourage family life and wellness and have this as a benefit even if it costs money and doesn't make good business sense, at least on the face of it. But then again, happy employees are productive employees.

 

[blankslate]

Read the US Dept. of Labor study that was linked. The actual "wage gap" is between 5-7% and can be explained by everything the author of the CBS article said.

Link the data in the first place and not the opinion piece then. It's better to skip the middle man when possible.

 

[schneiderguy]

Link the data in the first place and not the opinion piece then. It's better to skip the middle man when possible.

 

[blankslate]

 

[her209]

Sorry, I am not about to tell you where I work, or have worked, not gonna happen. I will tell you that a majority of companies in the pharma, biotech, and engineering fields do this. Actually I thought this was the rule, and not the exception.

You can think whatever, but absent any actual evidence, the law says "unpaid".

It makes good PR sense to encourage family life and wellness and have this as a benefit even if it costs money and doesn't make good business sense, at least on the face of it. But then again, happy employees are productive employees.

Doesn't sound like the women are too happy who are getting short changed. Or the men who are not getting the equivalent paid paternity leave that women get that you have claimed.

 

[schneiderguy]

Your pathetic attempts amuse me

 

[blankslate]

Your pathetic attempts amuse me

 

[nehalem256]

Its about large numbers.
With a sample size large enough the actual results should match the expected result.
People working hard or being lazy gets averaged out.
If there was no bias the expected results should be similar and they often are not.

For a salaried position working more doesn't equate to making more.
And experience, after a point, doesn't equal productivity.
Funny how that works.

But with a large enough sample size more work would lead to an expected result of more work .

And thank you for conceding that your stats are BS.

Funny how with how widespread liberals claim discrimination against women to be they are forced to rely on BS statistics to demonstrate this.

 

[nehalem256]

I'm a safe driver (no tickets or accidents in 6 years) and I still have to pay (much higher) male insurance rates.

When are the Democrats going to correct that inequality?

Oh wait, I'm a white male which means they don't give a shit about me.

Funny how when women have to pay more fore health insurance this is a national crisis. And the Democrats pass a law (obamacare) making this illegal.

But when are forced to pay more for car insurance and life insurance no one cares.

 

[Matthiasa]

But with a large enough sample size more work would lead to an expected result of more work .

And thank you for conceding that your stats are BS.

Funny how with how widespread liberals claim discrimination against women to be they are forced to rely on BS statistics to demonstrate this.

Which would typicall leads to a promotion which suddenly kicks the person from the category they were in higher end of to a new one where they are now at the bottom.

Actually another biased(a lot of data but not actually random, and might not even be good data) source shows that male wages also stop increasing after a certian point as well on average.
http://www.payscale.com/gender-lifetime-earnings-gap#methodology

 

[nehalem256]

Which would typicall leads to a promotion which suddenly kicks the person from the category they were in higher end of to a new one where they are now at the bottom.

Actually another biased(a lot of data but not actually random, and might not even be good data) source shows that male wages also stop increasing after a certian point as well on average.
http://www.payscale.com/gender-lifetime-earnings-gap#methodology

I have seen your that graph before. Note how women actually experience a HIGHER increase in wages until age 30. And that the graph has hand little arrow saying

College-educated women typically begin having children at age 30

 

[PokerGuy]

Those numbers say there is a difference.

Showing a difference is not the same as showing a cause for a difference. The cause is the real issue, a difference in and of itself doesn't mean anything.

 

[nehalem256]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...1838036.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEFTSecondBucket

If women work fewer hours than men do, it appears to be because they want it that way. About two-thirds of the part-time workforce in the United States is female. According to a 2007 Pew Research survey, only 21 percent of working mothers with minor children want to be in the office full-time. Sixty percent say that they would prefer to work part-time, and 19 percent would like to give up their jobs altogether. For working fathers, the numbers are reversed: 72 percent want to work full-time and 12 percent part-time.

Liberals... trying to enforce "equality" that no one even wants