Microsoft's mission: Revive PC gaming

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Interesting article.

SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/videogames/260447_pcgaming.html

Microsoft's mission: Revive PC gaming
It charges back into the fray, sparking hope for a revival of sales and evolution of the platform

Thursday, February 23, 2006

By BRIAN D. CRECENTE
SCRIPPS HOWARD NEWS SERVICE

Three months after its heralded introduction of the Xbox 360, Microsoft is prepping to launch another gaming platform: the computer.

With computer-game sales in a tailspin and a new generation of sleek, graphics-spewing consoles hitting stores, the software giant is promising to not only pull the computer out of its slump, but to deliver a PC-gaming renaissance.


Andrew Saeger / P-I
"I want to apologize for the dereliction of duty to our company's No. 1 platform, the PC, in terms of gaming," Microsoft vice president Peter Moore said. "We've been a little distracted for the past few years. Mea culpa, we've been busy."

And the neglect shows.

Last year, computer-game sales dropped 14 percent from the previous year, the worst dip in a five-year decline. Retail stores have taken note, relegating PC games into back corners.

"PC gaming used to take up the entire store," said Ken Levine, president and creative director for Irrational Games. "Now PC gaming get's a tiny little shelf."

So which is it for the future of PC gaming? Is it a dinosaur marching toward the tar pits or a sleeping giant ready to wake and reclaim its past glory?

The industry's top advocates say there are plenty of problems keeping PC gaming down, but just as much potential that portend its inevitable rebirth.

Some of the PC gaming's hurdles include:


Piracy -- Gamers are downloading the product rather than buying it.


Stagnancy -- Developers keep cranking out sequels when they should be innovating.

Some of PC gaming's promise includes:


Power -- PCs boast more technological muscle and, unlike a console, can regularly be upgraded.


Microsoft -- The company is throwing its weight behind PC gaming and contends a new operating system due at the end of the year will help push the platform to new heights.

"I don't believe PC gaming is going to die, but it is bleeding right now," said Tim Willits, lead designer and co-owner of id Software, makers of such PC powerhouse games as "Quake" and "Doom."

He points to piracy as a chief culprit in the sales drop. He says developers need to first find ways to make people pay.

"What developers and publishers need to do is come up with distribution plans and new copy protection plans," he said. "When you see a game that requires you to be online to play, people can't steal that game."

That's the plan for id's upcoming title, "Enemy Territory: Quake Wars," developed in association with longtime partners Activision and Splash Damage Games.

"One of the things we've done is make it an online game that requires you talk to a master server and have a unique key code," he said.

The industry needs to make such anti-piracy procedures mainstream if PC gaming is to survive, Willits said.

Others think the innovation shouldn't stop there. PC games have, in many ways, become formulaic.

"Publishers need to take more chances," said Robert "Apache" Howarth, editor of gaming site Voodoo Extreme. "PC gamers are sick and tired of color-by-numbers-designed World War II games, generic real-time strategy titles and massively multiplayer tripe.

"PC gaming in general is in a rut."

Moore echoed that sentiment during his speech last week at the Design, Innovate, Communicate, Entertain summit.

"We are becoming like TV and film in that we are sticking to a formula," he said. "We are a superior medium, and we should take the next step to rekindling originality."

Despite the hurdles facing the PC gaming industry, few think that gaming on the computer will become a thing of the past.

"It's like saying people are going to stop browsing on the Internet," said Mark Rein, vice president and co-founder of Epic Games. "It's idiotic."

Willits argues that no matter how fast and high tech a console starts out, it eventually will become outdated. Unlike with PCs, you can't upgrade a console.

"PC technology moves faster than the consoles. Consoles have a three- to five-year life span," Willits said. "You can get new video cards every few months, so the PC will always be more powerful, and it has better connections to the Internet."

Rein points to the object of his latest PC passion, a limited-edition computer from Dell called the XPF600 Renegade.

"Michael Dell said that it has four times the power of next-gen consoles," he said. "There is so much power in that PC and there is so much potential.

"But just think: a year from now that will be your average PC and think of what you will be able to buy then.

"It's just ludicrous to say PC gaming is on the way out when PC gaming hardware is just exploding."

And when the newest PC hardware hits, game developers can start taking advantage of it immediately.

"Six months from now when the next uber-awesome graphics card comes out we can take advantage of that right away," said Scott Brown, president of Louisville-based NetDevil.

Microsoft contends the PC gaming evolution will get a big boost from Vista, its latest Windows operating system that is due out later this year. The company says it will streamline computer gaming for both developers and gamers.

"In the past we haven't done a lot to foster the (PC gaming) ecosystem, we've just allowed it to exist," said Chris Donahue, director of developer relations for Windows graphics and gaming. "With Vista we are going to do specific marketing and retail stuff."

Moore, who is responsible for the Xbox division, recently took control of Windows gaming, too. With Moore's involvement comes a much greater emphasis on the PC platform, Donahue said.

Microsoft's push for its new operating system and PC gaming in general will include an attempt to standardize some aspects of the industry. From game packaging to online play and installation, the hope is that PC gaming will adapt some of the better traits of its console competition.

The Vista system also will streamline the way games are presented on your computer.

A built-in "games explorer" will organize the games on your computer and provide game details.

Developers are already singing the new operating system's praises.

Epic Game's Rein says Vista will make it much easier for developers to squeeze every bit of power out of a computer.

"It will get us much closer to the hardware," he said. "Right now you can get a lot more work out of an Xbox than you could get out of a PC."

Rein, whose Epic Games is developing titles for both consoles and PCs, says that in many ways the two markets complement one another.

"The good thing about next-gen consoles is that they are such powerful machines and that will translate into better games on the PC," he said.

That's because many developers create games that can play on all platforms, PC and console, and often they have to limit their titles to the lowest common denominator -- usually the console. As the consoles elevate their power, the games can catch up.

"I think we are going to see a resurgence of PC gaming," he said.

And Rein says there's far more innovation yet to come.

"The idea that there are no mountains left to conquer is absolutely ludicrous," he said. "People have no clue how much further we can go."

HELP IS ON THE WAY
Ten games coming out in 2006 that should keep your computer busy

Unreal Tournament 2007 (Epic Games)
Bulked-up artificial intelligence, melee combat moves and multiplayer variety promise to make the popular first-person shooter franchise that much more beloved.

Auto Assault (NetDevil)
This multiplayer online game mixes sci-fi and fantasy with car combat and role-playing to create a wicked blend of racing, shooting, exploration and car upgrades.

The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (Bethesda)
This latest in a string of successful role-playing games gets a new life through more realistic computer controlled characters that make choices based on your actions and their personalities.

Gears of War (Epic Games)
This third-person shooter adds subtleties by introducing cover, transforming the genre from an exercise in running-and-gunning into something more akin to real-time tactics.

Rise Of Nations: Rise of Legends (Big Huge Games)
Set in a steam-punk industrial age, this real-time strategy game is the "spiritual successor" to the much lauded "Rise of Nations" and has fans salivating at the prospect at a streamlined follow-up.

Age Of Conan: Hyborian Adventures (Funcom)
Set in Robert E. Howard's rich world of fantasy and sorcery, this massively multiplayer game promises to deliver deep story-driven single player adventures that build to massive multiplayer melees.

Spore (Maxis)
Ever the innovator, "Sims" creator Will Wright is broadening his life simulator and tackling creation. Players will start as a single-cell organism and guide it through evolution until their creation becomes a unique society worthy of space travel, colonization and, of course, war. Player organisms also will be shared with other online gamers automatically.

Microsoft Flight Simulator X (Microsoft Game Studios)
The culmination of nearly a quarter-century of flight simulators, "Flight Simulator X" with 24,000 airports situated around the world. The new heights of graphic realism will include such real-world distractions as the glare from the plane's wing or glints off glass and chrome.

Prey (Human Head)
Featuring an American Indian protagonist and alien-invasion story line, this first-person shooter includes a number of unusual gameplay mechanics, such as shifting gravity and having to fight for your spirit to continue the game after a death.

Enemy Territory: Quake Wars (Splash Damage/id Software)
This first-person shooter returns to id Software's seminal work, this time putting players in the midst of the Strogg invasion of Earth. You can choose to play as either side in a game that features strategic team play, day and night battles and the ability to hop into 40 different vehicles.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
and you call boil all that M$ PR BS down to ONE sentence:
Microsoft -- The company is throwing its weight behind PC gaming and contends a new operating system due at the end of the year will help push the platform to new heights.
M$ doesn't care about PC gaming . . . they just want to sell more Vista.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
lol...gee...I wonder what OS that is. I wonder if that'll take the focus off their Xbox 360. I heard they are going to, sometime soon, implement a Live system that encompasses both PC and console platforms.
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
Originally posted by: apoppin
and you call boil all that M$ PR BS down to ONE sentence:
Microsoft -- The company is throwing its weight behind PC gaming and contends a new operating system due at the end of the year will help push the platform to new heights.
M$ doesn't care about PC gaming . . . they just want to sell more Vista.

Whatever, that's fine by me. We're all smart enough here to do our own research as far as OSes go...this community tends to be convinced by community approval/review, not PR hype. ...anyway...

Personally, I'm happy that M$ has acknowledged the issue at all. At the least it should turn heads. I also hope they acknowledge the idea of releasing thoroughly bug-tested games, rather than companies publishing/releasing first and patching later.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Gooberlx2
Originally posted by: apoppin
and you call boil all that M$ PR BS down to ONE sentence:
Microsoft -- The company is throwing its weight behind PC gaming and contends a new operating system due at the end of the year will help push the platform to new heights.
M$ doesn't care about PC gaming . . . they just want to sell more Vista.

Whatever, that's fine by me. We're all smart enough here to do our own research as far as OSes go...this community tends to be convinced by community approval/review, not PR hype. ...anyway...

Personally, I'm happy that M$ has acknowledged the issue at all. At the least it should turn heads. I also hope they acknowledge the idea of releasing thoroughly bug-tested games, rather than companies publishing/releasing first and patching later.

that's all M$ does is release unpatched SW for their customers to beta test.

my BS detector is on 'Max" whenever i read their PR. M$ has an agenda . . . their "mission" DRM and they figure [wrongly] the only way to protect games from piracy is with Vista.

Unfortunately M$' security record is dismal.

they are addressing 'nothing' . . . they just want to sell xbox360 games and Vista.

Gaming's "salvation" is not thru MS . . .

they are a False Gaming God.
:thumbsdown:

 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
Originally posted by: apoppin
and you call boil all that M$ PR BS down to ONE sentence:
Microsoft -- The company is throwing its weight behind PC gaming and contends a new operating system due at the end of the year will help push the platform to new heights.
M$ doesn't care about PC gaming . . . they just want to sell more Vista.

If it helps PC gaming out, what does it matter?
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
Originally posted by: apoppin
and you call boil all that M$ PR BS down to ONE sentence:
Microsoft -- The company is throwing its weight behind PC gaming and contends a new operating system due at the end of the year will help push the platform to new heights.
M$ doesn't care about PC gaming . . . they just want to sell more Vista.

If it helps PC gaming out, what does it matter?
if what helps out PC gaming?


it will help M$ out . . .

the future of PC gaming is unclear . . . Vista will make no difference.

Until we see innovative games worth our money, the Platforms will continue to erode PC gaming . . .

you like xbox360 ports to PC?
:Q

M$ cares about xbox.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,111
318
126
"I don't believe PC gaming is going to die, but it is bleeding right now," said Tim Willits, lead designer and co-owner of id Software, makers of such PC powerhouse games as "Quake" and "Doom."

Considering that iD is killing gaming with it's belief of graphics over gameplay, he shouldn't be talking.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
4 times the power of gaming counsoles? Does that mean Opty dual core oced to 2.6, SLI 512GTX or x1900xtx crossfire is also 3-4 times more powerful than the gaming counsoles?
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Will Vista even run OpenGL games reasonably well?


thru some nasty DX "layer", i guess
:Q


i guess we'll need to keep XP [at least on dual boot] if we want to play id's games and engines

:shocked: if true

edit: evidently, not true . . . OGl will run OK on Vista.
 

microAmp

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2000
5,988
110
106
Originally posted by: apoppin
and you call boil all that M$ PR BS down to ONE sentence:
Microsoft -- The company is throwing its weight behind PC gaming and contends a new operating system due at the end of the year will help push the platform to new heights.
M$ doesn't care about PC gaming . . . they just want to sell more Vista.


lol, so true!
 

videogames101

Diamond Member
Aug 24, 2005
6,783
27
91
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
Originally posted by: apoppin
and you call boil all that M$ PR BS down to ONE sentence:
Microsoft -- The company is throwing its weight behind PC gaming and contends a new operating system due at the end of the year will help push the platform to new heights.
M$ doesn't care about PC gaming . . . they just want to sell more Vista.

If it helps PC gaming out, what does it matter?
if what helps out PC gaming?


it will help M$ out . . .

the future of PC gaming is unclear . . . Vista will make no difference.

Until we see innovative games worth our money, the Platforms will continue to erode PC gaming . . .

you like xbox360 ports to PC?
:Q

M$ cares about xbox.

M$ cares about xbox because they sld the first one AT A LOSS! They can't not care.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
61
Originally posted by: Hacp
4 times the power of gaming counsoles? Does that mean Opty dual core oced to 2.6, SLI 512GTX or x1900xtx crossfire is also 3-4 times more powerful than the gaming counsoles?

He's referring to the quad SLI setup in their XPS 600 Renegade.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
61
IMO, the biggest problem is not piracy, it's a total lack of good games coming out. I had maybe pourchased 6 games total in 2005. Horrible. The good games, HL2, Far Cry, COD series, are great, but there's just not enough of these good games to keep me satisfied. I love FPS's, and I hate waiting years for games to come out. There should be a HL2-quality game coming out at least once every 2 months. Right now, we get, maybe 2 per year.

Screw MS, Nvidia and ATI need to be more closely involved in PC gaming, along with MS. They are the ones that depend on PC gaming. Why pay $400 for a video card if there are only a few games that could even make use of it?

I think it's time they start investing more money into the games, massive innovation, even if that causes prices of games to increase. Massive multiplayer FPS's, along with a long SP game as well.

Think about, what if a game came out that was maybe $100 retail, called for intense-performing hardware, but was so farking incredible and fun that everyone went out and bought it all just to play. That's what PC gaming needs, a swift kick in the ass. Something revolutionary, even if it's expensive. Something to make people say, damn, that's expensive, but damn, it is fun as hell.

PC gamers have always wanted the best, the newest, latest, greatest thing. And we've been willing to pay for it. There's just no one willing to step up and make it.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Not that Microsoft gives a crap what I think but:

1. Crossplatform the Live service onto the PC.

2. Create a consistant security measure that keeps hackers out of online gaming. File consistency checks, whatever are needed, this will make or break the future. We need to reach a point where hacking impossible.

3. Create a consistant anti-piracy scheme. BUT also get rid of bloated, rediculous security measures AT THE SAME TIME. Remove the starforces, the cd checks, and the other security programs that cause games to run slower, crash, and invade our pc with crap we do not want.

4. Offer game patches via Windows Update / Live? What if Microsoft went in direct competition with Fileplanet for offering a good source of getting a patch for every and any game you own. What if that product told YOU what you needed to update instead if you finding out when you try to connect to a server or when your game crashes 3 times in a row.

5. RELEASE GAMES ON FVCKING DVDS ONLY ALREADY. Your games cost 50 dollars, a DVD reader costs 15 dollars, MATH DOES NOT COMPUTE. Oh and start using DVD cases too. You made a step in the right direction long ago by making the cardboard boxes smaller, but the reality is that DVD cases are clearly superior than the cardboard boxes of old. A box may sound silly, but appearance is important and frankly I hate the fact that they don't stay closed.

6. Lower the cost. It makes complete sense that if you stamp out piracy you can afford to sell games cheaper.

7. Get to the point where a gamer can host BF2 at their own house off their own network connection. Uploading bandwidth simply isn't there yet. This isn't Microsoft's problem but it is a global gaming problem that may solve itself simply with time, but it would be much better if it solved itself sooner rather than later.

8. PC Gaming isn't dying, even if none of the things on this list occur, it will still continue forward with no tar pit in sight. It may lose money, but it will always be a valid gaming machine unless they start ripping out video game cards and Koreans stop making mmorpgs of everything under the sun.

I feel better now, thanks.

Oh and I love this quote: "The idea that there are no mountains left to conquer is absolutely ludicrous," he said. "People have no clue how much further we can go."
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
32
91
I've become jaded with the PC gaming market due to the acceptance by the general public that releasing a broken game is okay. I can't go to EB anymore, buy a game, and expect it to work. I can however expect to buy a game, install it, and spend some additional time hunting down patches and such to make it work.

Bleh. Fix that and maybe they can fix the PC market. It's one of the primary reasons I lean more towards consoles now.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,756
600
126
Originally posted by: apoppin
and you call boil all that M$ PR BS down to ONE sentence:
Microsoft -- The company is throwing its weight behind PC gaming and contends a new operating system due at the end of the year will help push the platform to new heights.
M$ doesn't care about PC gaming . . . they just want to sell more Vista.

Agreed. That whole article was a bunch of self inflicted back patting rubbish. Microsoft hasn't really done much of anything for pc gaming for a good long time. All they've done is given us some sloppy xbox ports that run like ass.

Oh...vista to the rescue? When YOU abadone your girlfriend on the side of the road somewhere, you aren't a hero when you finally come back 3 hours later to get her. I'll bet their marketing department would tell me vista cooked me breakfast every morning if they thought thats what I wanted to hear. Were they trying to "save" PC Gaming when they took time out of their busy schedule to modify AOE3's installer to prevent it working on windows 2000? Seems like they were trying to sell operating systems with that one. I'll believe it when I see it from microsoft.

id...what a bunch of crap. Blame the whole bit on piracy. Piracy has been around since the beginning of the PC and before. Some how you managed to sell games back then though. Maybe if they made a game with nongraphical features that weren't considered old hat 5 years ago people would be more excited about their games. Doom3 had its moments, but lets face it, gameplay wise it didn't bring much to the table that doom 1 didn't have. id makes graphics engines with a skeletal game on top. The modders make it fun. I didn't see them taking the humble stance that they weren't meeting their demographics demands there...they just did the good old "blame it on the pirates" routine.
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
5
0
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
Originally posted by: apoppin
and you call boil all that M$ PR BS down to ONE sentence:
Microsoft -- The company is throwing its weight behind PC gaming and contends a new operating system due at the end of the year will help push the platform to new heights.
M$ doesn't care about PC gaming . . . they just want to sell more Vista.

If it helps PC gaming out, what does it matter?
if what helps out PC gaming?


it will help M$ out . . .

the future of PC gaming is unclear . . . Vista will make no difference.

Until we see innovative games worth our money, the Platforms will continue to erode PC gaming . . .

you like xbox360 ports to PC?
:Q

M$ cares about xbox.

Well gee... who's word am i going to take. Somebody on an internet forum who makes a post without any substantial statements except replacing the S in MS with a $ (very witty and original btw!). Or developers who already have a look at the OS and are very optimistic about it.
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
5
0
6. Lower the cost. It makes complete sense that if you stamp out piracy you can afford to sell games cheaper.

If anything prices will go higher. Games costs so much more to develop now that graphics are getting so much better.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,756
600
126
Originally posted by: Looney
6. Lower the cost. It makes complete sense that if you stamp out piracy you can afford to sell games cheaper.

If anything prices will go higher. Games costs so much more to develop now that graphics are getting so much better.

Raising the prices of a product whose demand seems to be waning is usually a bad economic strategy.
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,365
16
0
M$ doesn't care about PC gaming . . . they just want to sell more Vista.

Of course. And without gaming, most people might as well use Linux, or OS X. It's about time MS woke up and realized that gaming is the only advantage their OS has to most of us.

Maybe MS will now stop trying to kill coop mode on the PC just so it can be an Xbox exclusive. Examples are Halo, Doom 3, and the lastest Battlefield.
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
5
0
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Originally posted by: Looney
6. Lower the cost. It makes complete sense that if you stamp out piracy you can afford to sell games cheaper.

If anything prices will go higher. Games costs so much more to develop now that graphics are getting so much better.

Raising the prices of a product whose demand seems to be waning is usually a bad economic strategy.

I think if the content is good, people would be willing to pay for it. 360 games are higher than Xbox and PS2. And i doubt PS3 games will be cheaper. So people are willing to pay for it... but if a game costs 20 million to make, it better look like it cost 20 million (WoW cost 70mil).
 

mordantmonkey

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2004
3,075
5
0
oh yes, piracy is the number one reason for the sales slump :roll:. I'll admit, i have pirated one game... X3. only because X2 was a bit of a let down, and i didn't want to waste money on something i wouldn't play. I played for about 1 hour, and immediately removed it. Yet in the past year i have bought, HL2/CS:S, DOD:S, D3(used), BF2, Sims2, Evil Genius, Halo, KOTOR2.
Guess it's a good thing piracy can't really be quantified, makes it a lot easier to point a finger.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |