Microsoft's mission: Revive PC gaming

[garfong]

Originally posted by: bamacre
IMO, the biggest problem is not piracy, it's a total lack of good games coming out. I had maybe pourchased 6 games total in 2005. Horrible. The good games, HL2, Far Cry, COD series, are great, but there's just not enough of these good games to keep me satisfied. I love FPS's, and I hate waiting years for games to come out. There should be a HL2-quality game coming out at least once every 2 months. Right now, we get, maybe 2 per year.

Screw MS, Nvidia and ATI need to be more closely involved in PC gaming, along with MS. They are the ones that depend on PC gaming. Why pay $400 for a video card if there are only a few games that could even make use of it?

You pretty much summed up the situation. The Devs are acting like the music industry, blaming piracy for lack of sales when it's really their crappy music. Last year I bought and sold my gaming rig because I played through all the interesting games in a few months and realized that my comp would be obsolete by the time more good games came out.

 

[bersl2]

Gaming technology can be revived by releasing the hardware companies from the glacial pace of DirectX updates, so that hardware dictates to OS, as should happen. Games make demands of hardware, but hardware makes demands of the support software; MS is trying to force the dependency in the opposite direction.

As for content, gameplay, etc., MS has no possible say in that.

MS, GTFO. You're screwing everything up, as usual.

 

[blurredvision]

Originally posted by: bamacre
IMO, the biggest problem is not piracy, it's a total lack of good games coming out. I had maybe pourchased 6 games total in 2005. Horrible. The good games, HL2, Far Cry, COD series, are great, but there's just not enough of these good games to keep me satisfied. I love FPS's, and I hate waiting years for games to come out. There should be a HL2-quality game coming out at least once every 2 months. Right now, we get, maybe 2 per year.

The total lack of good games is in a roundabout way because of piracy, which makes it the biggest problem. I don't think everyone really understands how piracy affects game sales, which in turn affects developers, which in turn affects potential developers who once were considering PC development. Currently, there's no good way to prevent piracy without pissing off the majority of the single-minded PC gamers who want innovation, but don't want to pay for it.

Originally posted by: skace
6. Lower the cost. It makes complete sense that if you stamp out piracy you can afford to sell games cheaper.

PC games are already cheap. The bigger titles obviously start out at $50, but most of those games are available at $40 a month or two later, and a lot of games start out at $40 (or even $20-$30 on occassion). You certainly can't say that for console games. Most console games only see a drop in MSRP if sales are extremely bad or if they are carted to a budget line (i.e. Sony's Greatest Hits line).

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: Looney

6. Lower the cost. It makes complete sense that if you stamp out piracy you can afford to sell games cheaper.

If anything prices will go higher. Games costs so much more to develop now that graphics are getting so much better.

Raising the prices of a product whose demand seems to be waning is usually a bad economic strategy.

I think if the content is good, people would be willing to pay for it. 360 games are higher than Xbox and PS2. And i doubt PS3 games will be cheaper. So people are willing to pay for it... but if a game costs 20 million to make, it better look like it cost 20 million (WoW cost 70mil).

I am certainly willing to pay for it, and you are very much correct in newer games being more expensive. It just takes more resources to make the kind of games that are revolutionary, the kinds of games we are waiting to see.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: apoppin
and you call boil all that M$ PR BS down to ONE sentence:

Microsoft -- The company is throwing its weight behind PC gaming and contends a new operating system due at the end of the year will help push the platform to new heights.

M$ doesn't care about PC gaming . . . they just want to sell more Vista.

If it helps PC gaming out, what does it matter?

if what helps out PC gaming?


it will help M$ out . . .

the future of PC gaming is unclear . . . Vista will make no difference.

Until we see innovative games worth our money, the Platforms will continue to erode PC gaming . . .

you like xbox360 ports to PC?
:Q

M$ cares about xbox.

Well gee... who's word am i going to take. Somebody on an internet forum who makes a post without any substantial statements except replacing the S in MS with a $ (very witty and original btw!). Or developers who already have a look at the OS and are very optimistic about it.

what developers?

Oh, you mean M$ VP in charge of marketing?
:roll:

Most of us can see thru M$' BS

and what point did you make?
:thumbsdown:

 

[ndruw]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2

Originally posted by: apoppin
and you call boil all that M$ PR BS down to ONE sentence:

Microsoft -- The company is throwing its weight behind PC gaming and contends a new operating system due at the end of the year will help push the platform to new heights.

M$ doesn't care about PC gaming . . . they just want to sell more Vista.

Whatever, that's fine by me. We're all smart enough here to do our own research as far as OSes go...this community tends to be convinced by community approval/review, not PR hype. ...anyway...

Personally, I'm happy that M$ has acknowledged the issue at all. At the least it should turn heads. I also hope they acknowledge the idea of releasing thoroughly bug-tested games, rather than companies publishing/releasing first and patching later.

by acknowledged, do you mean found a new marketing ploy?

 

[StrangerGuy]

Remember the great console port known as Halo from Microsoft?

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: StrangerGuy
Remember the great console port known as Halo from Microsoft?

I remember that Microsoft didn't even create Halo in the first place..

Although I bet when they release halo 3 or 4 it will help "revitalize PC gaming"

 

[garfong]

Originally posted by: blurredvision

Originally posted by: bamacre
IMO, the biggest problem is not piracy, it's a total lack of good games coming out. I had maybe pourchased 6 games total in 2005. Horrible. The good games, HL2, Far Cry, COD series, are great, but there's just not enough of these good games to keep me satisfied. I love FPS's, and I hate waiting years for games to come out. There should be a HL2-quality game coming out at least once every 2 months. Right now, we get, maybe 2 per year.

The total lack of good games is in a roundabout way because of piracy, which makes it the biggest problem. I don't think everyone really understands how piracy affects game sales, which in turn affects developers, which in turn affects potential developers who once were considering PC development. Currently, there's no good way to prevent piracy without pissing off the majority of the single-minded PC gamers who want innovation, but don't want to pay for it.

Originally posted by: skace
6. Lower the cost. It makes complete sense that if you stamp out piracy you can afford to sell games cheaper.

PC games are already cheap. The bigger titles obviously start out at $50, but most of those games are available at $40 a month or two later, and a lot of games start out at $40 (or even $20-$30 on occassion). You certainly can't say that for console games. Most console games only see a drop in MSRP if sales are extremely bad or if they are carted to a budget line (i.e. Sony's Greatest Hits line).

PC games aren't cheap if you consider the amount of money going into upgrades. Some gamers may have unlimitted funds to buy every pc game that comes out, but considering the meager lifespan of a pc most are very choosy and would rather put that extra 50 bucks into the next tier video card rather than a game that they're unsure they'll like.


BTW, Microsoft probably helped PC gaming most when they stopped the xbox360 from using the mouse and keyboard for input devices. This is really the only thing the PC gaming has going for it imo. Piracy with consoles is much less than PCs, and online cheating in games is more difficult with consoles. But who in their right mind wants to play an FPS or RTS with a thumbstick?!

 

[Nextman916]

you forgot to add crysis

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: garfong

Originally posted by: bamacre
IMO, the biggest problem is not piracy, it's a total lack of good games coming out. I had maybe pourchased 6 games total in 2005. Horrible. The good games, HL2, Far Cry, COD series, are great, but there's just not enough of these good games to keep me satisfied. I love FPS's, and I hate waiting years for games to come out. There should be a HL2-quality game coming out at least once every 2 months. Right now, we get, maybe 2 per year.

Screw MS, Nvidia and ATI need to be more closely involved in PC gaming, along with MS. They are the ones that depend on PC gaming. Why pay $400 for a video card if there are only a few games that could even make use of it?

You pretty much summed up the situation. The Devs are acting like the music industry, blaming piracy for lack of sales when it's really their crappy music. Last year I bought and sold my gaming rig because I played through all the interesting games in a few months and realized that my comp would be obsolete by the time more good games came out.

Whats sad is few people realize we cant keep suing each other for money. The economy wont work like that. Sooner or later someone has to produce something of value.
It wont be the entertainment industry, but its something to think about.

 

[preslove]

This will revive pc gaming... for now. And *gasp* EA will own it...

 

[dighn]

hahah this is such a blatantly obvious push for Vista

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: preslove
This will revive pc gaming... for now. And *gasp* EA will own it...

:shocked:

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: blurredvision

Originally posted by: bamacre
IMO, the biggest problem is not piracy, it's a total lack of good games coming out. I had maybe pourchased 6 games total in 2005. Horrible. The good games, HL2, Far Cry, COD series, are great, but there's just not enough of these good games to keep me satisfied. I love FPS's, and I hate waiting years for games to come out. There should be a HL2-quality game coming out at least once every 2 months. Right now, we get, maybe 2 per year.

The total lack of good games is in a roundabout way because of piracy, which makes it the biggest problem. I don't think everyone really understands how piracy affects game sales, which in turn affects developers, which in turn affects potential developers who once were considering PC development. Currently, there's no good way to prevent piracy without pissing off the majority of the single-minded PC gamers who want innovation, but don't want to pay for it.

If the people that want innovation are the same ones that don't want to pay for it...well then you don't have anything to lose by pissing them off.

I don't know. You can blame piracy...but there were always pirates, and always will be. I've thought the cdkey online systems we have in place were pretty sufficient in that regard. PC users are used to having a certain amount of control over their applications, which is why most of the cd protection mechanisms are met with such animosity. I mean, having the cd in the drive to play? I have a gigantic hard drive with all the game files on it...if I wanted to deal with disk swapping all day I would have bought a console. I know this has been discussed before, but antipiracy measures usually work by punishing people that bought the game. Pirates just strip out the crap anyway. And then when you have every remaining PC Gamer downloading cd cracks for games they bought...what have you done besides bring the cracker scene a little closer to your buying demographics heart?

I could just as easily argue that the gaming industries more aggressive antipiracy measures are the cause of the lost sales. There's no statistics to back it up either way, there was no poll of people with illegal copies on their system asking whether they would have paid for it if they HAD too, not that its results wouldn't be skewed anyway.
One things for sure though, more cd copy protection systems haven't boosted sales of bad titles. You can lock down your crappy game like fort knox all you want, but people aren't going to rush out and buy a piece of crap just because they can't download a piece of crap anymore.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: blurredvision

Originally posted by: bamacre
IMO, the biggest problem is not piracy, it's a total lack of good games coming out. I had maybe pourchased 6 games total in 2005. Horrible. The good games, HL2, Far Cry, COD series, are great, but there's just not enough of these good games to keep me satisfied. I love FPS's, and I hate waiting years for games to come out. There should be a HL2-quality game coming out at least once every 2 months. Right now, we get, maybe 2 per year.

The total lack of good games is in a roundabout way because of piracy, which makes it the biggest problem. I don't think everyone really understands how piracy affects game sales, which in turn affects developers, which in turn affects potential developers who once were considering PC development. Currently, there's no good way to prevent piracy without pissing off the majority of the single-minded PC gamers who want innovation, but don't want to pay for it.

If the people that want innovation are the same ones that don't want to pay for it...well then you don't have anything to lose by pissing them off.

I don't know. You can blame piracy...but there were always pirates, and always will be. I've thought the cdkey online systems we have in place were pretty sufficient in that regard. PC users are used to having a certain amount of control over their applications, which is why most of the cd protection mechanisms are met with such animosity. I mean, having the cd in the drive to play? I have a gigantic hard drive with all the game files on it...if I wanted to deal with disk swapping all day I would have bought a console. I know this has been discussed before, but antipiracy measures usually work by punishing people that bought the game. Pirates just strip out the crap anyway. And then when you have every remaining PC Gamer downloading cd cracks for games they bought...what have you done besides bring the cracker scene a little closer to your buying demographics heart?

I could just as easily argue that the gaming industries more aggressive antipiracy measures are the cause of the lost sales. There's no statistics to back it up either way, there was no poll of people with illegal copies on their system asking whether they would have paid for it if they HAD too, not that its results wouldn't be skewed anyway.
One things for sure though, more cd copy protection systems haven't boosted sales of bad titles. You can lock down your crappy game like fort knox all you want, but people aren't going to rush out and buy a piece of crap just because they can't download a piece of crap anymore.

One possible way of combatting piracy is to make games cheap, or even free, by addding advertising to the games. I also think Steam is a good way of not only combatting piracy but also keeping everyone on the same game version for online play. There are other ways, developers will have to innovate here just as they need to innovate gameplay.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: bamacre
One possible way of combatting piracy is to make games cheap, or even free, by addding advertising to the games. I also think Steam is a good way of not only combatting piracy but also keeping everyone on the same game version for online play. There are other ways, developers will have to innovate here just as they need to innovate gameplay.

I thought steam was a good effort at combating piracy as well. People still b|tched and complained about it, and they did have some valid complaints about its buggy initial release. However its pretty solid now IMO, and I really like not having to worry about what I did with my cds or having to install a cd crack just to keep from scratching up said cds. And if you read what microsoft is suggesting in regards to their plans for PC Gamings future, it sounds a lot like what steam is doing right now...except that it will probably be as much a vehicle for OS sales as it is a distribution network.

The cheap thing is sort of the same deal. We're seeing a lot of bizarre game ideas already being distributed through steam for a cost well below your average title. I've said it before, but I think this kind of system is what we're looking for. All of the different stuff these days comes out of the mod community, and steam is giving some kind of way to sell this as a product. They're not full blown new games, so they shouldn't really command the same price. But they are a product thats marketable. We're of course seeing some griping about that since most people aren't used to paying for mods. But then again, only the really good and polished ones can actually command sales...and those ones IMO are worth their small cost.

 

[Magnulus]

Spore isn't 100 percent original. Remember Sim Earth? Actually, I liked that game better. The only reason Maxis doesn't make cool games like that any more is because of EA.

Piracy is to blame for PC gaming's decline, but so are bland, unoriginal games. And dare I say it, PC gamers might share some of that blame too? PC gamers hardcore seem to be very grumbly and dificult to please.

 

[BladeVenom]

Blaming piracy is pure BS. Just a convenient excuse from the gaming industry. Not having copy protection on a game doesn't decrease its sales, and having the best copy protection certainly doesn't increase its sales. If anything copy protection hurts game sales. I know I would never knowingly buy another game with the Starforce copy protection trojan.

Galactic Civilizations 2 has zero copy protection on it. Its from a small developer with a very limited advertising budget, and it seems to be selling very well. No copy protection, and you can download it from their website whenever you like if you damage your CD.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Magnulus
PC gamers hardcore seem to be very grumbly and dificult to please.

I disagree. We've been pleased with a lot games.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Originally posted by: StrangerGuy
Remember the great console port known as Halo from Microsoft?

You mean the tactical strategy game by Bungie that Microsoft raped? Indeed I do.

 

[kobymu]

Only good PC games can revive PC games. it is really that simple.

Microsoft can say whatever they want but it is not up to them,unless that is they start making good games :shocked:.

 

[dguy6789]

It is quite possible that this is just PR. However, if it is not, then there is much to think about. Microsoft, can and make anything they want in just about any market happen, if they really want it. If they are really going to try to push PC gaming upwards, then I have no doubt that it will go upwards.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: apoppin
and you call boil all that M$ PR BS down to ONE sentence:

Microsoft -- The company is throwing its weight behind PC gaming and contends a new operating system due at the end of the year will help push the platform to new heights.

M$ doesn't care about PC gaming . . . they just want to sell more Vista.

well from what i've read they do have a point about direct x 10 and making hardware compliance stricter. making things easier for developers can't be bad.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: dguy6789
It is quite possible that this is just PR. However, if it is not, then there is much to think about. Microsoft, can and make anything they want in just about any market happen, if they really want it. If they are really going to try to push PC gaming upwards, then I have no doubt that it will go upwards.

Well, MS just may be very serious about this. Gaming keeps the more computer literate off Linux.