[MMO] Rift - Discussion

[J-Money]

So what? Back in the great years of MUDs we never had graphics either.



Ah, here we have that false dichotomy cropping up again. This is complete nonsense.




False dichotomies and strawman arguments again. I am detecting a pattern here amongst the anti add-on crowd.

You claimed "it's impossible to tell threat without a threat meter" yet I factually said it isn't. You obviously never played an MMO before WoW and probably couldn't without a meter telling you when to stop attacking.

And you already said you would kick someone with 15% less dps then someone else, that proves you want mix/maxers with FOTM builds instead of people playing a build they enjoy because it's fun.

THE METER SAID YOU SUCK SO LEAVE PLZ.

You are exactly what's wrong with MMO's nowadays. It's a job to you where everyone has to be 100% productive instead of letting people have fun and do their best, even if it's in a less than ideal build.

 

[Veliko]

You claimed "it's impossible to tell threat without a threat meter" yet I factually said it isn't. You obviously never played an MMO before WoW and probably couldn't without a meter telling you when to stop attacking.

So how do you know how much threat you are giving out if you don't have anything that displays it?

And you already said you would kick someone with 15% less dps then someone else, that proves you want mix/maxers with FOTM builds instead of people playing a build they enjoy because it's fun.

THE METER SAID YOU SUCK SO LEAVE PLZ.

No I didn't say I would kick someone with 15% less DPS than somene else. We are only one page on from what I said and you are making things up already and coming up with strawman arguments.

This is what I actually said. Which part of it do you disagree so vehemently with?

If you were on my guild raid team, were consistently 15% behind everyone else and that held us back then yes you would be the one who is most likely to be replaced.

You are exactly what's wrong with MMO's nowadays. It's a job to you where everyone has to be 100% productive instead of letting people have fun and do their best, even if it's in a less than ideal build.

You are everything that is wrong with forums. From the anonymity of your keyboard you can sit there lying and making things up about people without any fear of actually having to address any of the points raised.

 

[KIAman]

When I first subscribed, I purchased a 3 month block, anticipating a fun and interesting game. I cancelled my sub last night. This is the shortest mmo sub I've ever had.

The reason had nothing to do with patches or updates. Just not the play style I enjoy. As a reference, I've never played WOW or EQ and my favorite MMO has been UO (pre-suckiness) and AOC (quit because nobody to play with).

I had 40 warrior, 32 cleric and 30 mage. The warrior changes didn't affect my warrior leveling speed but I specced pyro as a mage and hit 2x harder.

 

[smackababy]

So how do you know how much threat you are giving out if you don't have anything that displays it?



No I didn't say I would kick someone with 15% less DPS than somene else. We are only one page on from what I said and you are making things up already and coming up with strawman arguments.

This is what I actually said. Which part of it do you disagree so vehemently with?

If you were on my guild raid team, were consistently 15% behind everyone else and that held us back then yes you would be the one who is most likely to be replaced.



You are everything that is wrong with forums. From the anonymity of your keyboard you can sit there lying and making things up about people without any fear of actually having to address any of the points raised.

The problem is 90% of the people are those who would be 15% behind good players. They have to cater to these players because they give the money.


Seriously though, on the subject of DPS meters: once they release a fight like Brutallus, Patchwerk, etc where it is just a DPS race for the most part, knowing who is and isn't ready for that content helps a lot. If you can't do x amount of DPS, frankly, you're not ready for that content, either skill or gear wise.

 

[SunnyD]

When I first subscribed, I purchased a 3 month block, anticipating a fun and interesting game. I cancelled my sub last night. This is the shortest mmo sub I've ever had.

The reason had nothing to do with patches or updates. Just not the play style I enjoy. As a reference, I've never played WOW or EQ and my favorite MMO has been UO (pre-suckiness) and AOC (quit because nobody to play with).

I had 40 warrior, 32 cleric and 30 mage. The warrior changes didn't affect my warrior leveling speed but I specced pyro as a mage and hit 2x harder.

Yeah... I feel the stagnant - or is it rapid? - nature of Telara. I've been running 4 characters (one each class) up the tree, resting them as rested runs out. I'm primarily pushing my mage right now though, who hit 37 last night. I solo a lot, so I'm not really rushing content otherwise I'd have 2 50's by now (my cleric is 32). But I can tell I'm going to run out of content sooner rather than later. I'm signed up for a 6 month block to take advantage of the price, but unlike you I won't be dropping the sub. Part of it is my friend paid for it, so I'm there for him, and the other part is that this is replacing my $9.99/mo that was spent on LOTRO, so there's no net loss. I'm in it for the content they push out. Right now, I'm having fun with the event that's going on, trying to figure out what happens next. All the while, patiently leveling, running warfronts, and exploring the world.

And my pyro seems to be hitting less hard than before the patch. Then again, I don't play pyro unless I'm in the warfront - the rest of the time its chloro/lock/archon.

 

[Joemonkey]

looks like all the servers are locked this morning, is there a site I can check for server status that is actually correct? All the ones I checked say the servers are up

 

[smackababy]

There is an android app for it. I assume there is a server status site on their website, but I've never looked.

 

[novasatori]

So how do you know how much threat you are giving out if you don't have anything that displays it?

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[Throckmorton]

Why do they keep taking out the dye merchant??

 

[coloumb]

Why do they keep taking out the dye merchant??

lol - probably for the same reason they disabled iron nodes [1 node which would spawn immediately] yesterday - probably some bug related to being able to exploit the game mechanics.

For those who have multiple characters and haven't level capped - I'd suggest you pick one, level it up to 50, respec for "dungeon" running, and try it out. Go run dailies, go battle rifts/invasions, go run a few dungeons.

Last night - we Raising Kain [zone event] spawned in Stillmoor and it was the most fun I'd had in an MMO in a long time. Thanks to the devs increasing the amount of death rifts - there's always something to do...

 

[Chiropteran]

So how do you know how much threat you are giving out if you don't have anything that displays it?

Intuition and practice. You get a feel for how much threat your tank produces and how hard you can DPS. If your tank screws up and has less threat, he warns you over vent or chat so you know to hold back a bit more. It's not like it's rocket science.

 

[Veliko]

Intuition and practice. You get a feel for how much threat your tank produces and how hard you can DPS. If your tank screws up and has less threat, he warns you over vent or chat so you know to hold back a bit more. It's not like it's rocket science.

No, it's mathematics. If you don't know the numbers to the equations it isn't possible to know what the output is.

 

[pontifex]

about 1 "bubble" away from 50 on my ranger/bard/marksman.

 

[dougp]

No, it's mathematics. If you don't know the numbers to the equations it isn't possible to know what the output is.

I'm sorry, but in games like EQ and DAoC - you didn't have threat meters. You had to pay attention to what was going on with the mob instead of some meters. Your argument is really invalid - meters help the handicapped. I used to love raiding in DAoC - WoW took the fun out of it, because of meters.

 

[Throckmorton]

MMO gamers want their hands held for everything. I almost miss the old EQ days before we even had real quests.

 

[SunnyD]

Why do they keep taking out the dye merchant??

They took it out to make apothecaries actualky useful for something.

 

[Chiropteran]

No, it's mathematics. If you don't know the numbers to the equations it isn't possible to know what the output is.

Sure, it is mathematics. But you do not need the numbers to figure it out. If you can spam ability X and not pull agro, you just figured out that ability X is less than your tanks threat, even without knowing the numbers. You are one step closer to being able to handle your agro, and you didn't need any numbers to do so.

Besides that, I have a feeling the system is designed so that you won't ever pull agro through normal DPS rotations with competent tanks. It's more of a game for the tank to do a proper agro rotation rather than something DPS worry about in most situations.

 

[Throckmorton]

They took it out to make apothecaries actualky useful for something.

But I looked on the auction house and there's hardly any dye for sale. Plus the colors are different and ugly-- we no longer get green, we get seafoam green.

They basically removed dying from the game.

 

[Veliko]

I'm sorry, but in games like EQ and DAoC - you didn't have threat meters. You had to pay attention to what was going on with the mob instead of some meters. Your argument is really invalid - meters help the handicapped.

Again, this is absurd. You may as well remove health meters and say that they are only for the handicapped.

I used to love raiding in DAoC - WoW took the fun out of it, because of meters.

Don't be so ridiculous. This only makes sense if you think the only difference between DAoC and WoW are the add-ons.

 

[dougp]

Again, this is absurd. You may as well remove health meters and say that they are only for the handicapped.

Uhm, you're arguing for an add-on, whereas health bars have always been in games.

Don't be so ridiculous. This only makes sense if you think the only difference between DAoC and WoW are the add-ons.

In the raiding scene - yes, only huge difference is addons.

 

[coloumb]

it doesn't take a mathematic rocket scientist to know when the tank has lost threat and if a non-tank is causing too much dps [their health bar drops extremely fast and usually they'll die faster].

Tanks have spells which causes the mob to attack them and nobody else. Pretty sure that spell takes priority over any other "threat/dps" spell in the game and thus why dps/threat meters are NOT needed.

Heck - the raid quest in Stillmoor is a prime example. If both tanks are doing their jobs [switching up threat between debuffs] - the entire fight is on 2 tanks with everyone else staying out of red circles, picking up adds, and dps'ng the boss down.

 

[Veliko]

it doesn't take a mathematic rocket scientist to know when the tank has lost threat and if a non-tank is causing too much dps [their health bar drops extremely fast and usually they'll die faster].

That's akin to removing the speedometer from a car because if you skid off the road you know that you are going too fast.

Tanks have spells which causes the mob to attack them and nobody else. Pretty sure that spell takes priority over any other "threat/dps" spell in the game and thus why dps/threat meters are NOT needed.

Presumably those spells only last a certain amount of time and have cooldowns.

 

[Genx87]

MMO gamers want their hands held for everything. I almost miss the old EQ days before we even had real quests.

Pretty much. I miss the days of UO. Got into the game and started killing NPCs or each other.

 

[Veliko]

Uhm, you're arguing for an add-on, whereas health bars have always been in games.

I remember when games didn't have health bars. They are for the handicapped.

In the raiding scene - yes, only huge difference is addons.

What, other than the difference in playstyle you mean? If add-ons ruined raiding for you it just means you weren't that great in the first place.

 

[dougp]

I remember when games didn't have health bars. They are for the handicapped.

You REALLY are pulling at straws because people don't agree with you. And then you lean towards personal insults ...

What, other than the difference in playstyle you mean? If add-ons ruined raiding for you it just means you weren't that great in the first place.

Yah, I'm terrible. Not. You require add-ons to raid - maybe you're just that bad, you need something to tell you how to play instead of understanding your abilities and the mechanics of a game.