[MMO] Rift - Discussion

[Joemonkey]

Different roles for different situations.

I roll with my Warlock/Chloro/* (Archon, but 0 points in it) about 85% of the time. If I'm solo, I'm running it. If I'm in a group with no defined role, I'm running it. If I'm in PvP, There's a 50/50 shot I'm running it - it all depends on what WF I'm in and how our team is handling.

BUT... if there's a dungeon crawl looking for DPS, I'll switch to Pyro/Archon/Elementalist. If there's PvP happening in Black Garden or Codex, I'm going to start the match with this build.

IF there's a dungeon crawl that wants CC, I'm going to run my Domi/SC/* build. If I'm in PvP that I'm going to see a good amount of 1 on 1 I'm going to run this build. If we're in PvP where there's a lot of enemy casters (or in codex where I can stand back and AoE the shit out of people) I'm going to run this build.

Roles are very situational. I'm waiting for loads of plat to drop in my lap so I can buy my 4th role and make a necro build. The other nice thing is, if I get bored, I just switch roles.

I understand different roles for different situations, it just makes it difficult at times. For example, if I have a role of some sort of nuker then I may try to stack spell crit gear, but if I'm a DOTer then I may stack spell power. Switching roles will also eventually mean switching gear to be effective. I'm already seeing this with my rogue who I started as a riftstalker that is stacking dodge and endurance gear, but when I switch roles to my ranger/marksman I want +crit +hit +dex stuff on.

 

[skace]

I'm level 44 as of last night. The 4th role will purely for fun though, so technically I'm not really "saving" for it. I'm more importantly saving for a mount right now that's faster than my turtle. I've had upwards of 28 plat last night, but training skill ranks across 3 roles at level 44 ate a good 6 plat. Plus I'm also putting effort into crafting too, so that eats a bit of money. On a good day just off junk loot, I make about 6-8 plat. I don't auction anything (needed for runebreaking).

I'm at 53 plat at level 41. Saving for the 125 plat I'll need for 110% run speed horse. I'm only maintaining 2 roles at this moment (purchased 3rd role but its blank). However, when I started I was given a stack of huge bags so I've been able to keep nearly everything I've picked up.

My trade skills are butcher, forager and miner. But I give all my harvested goods to the guild. So I'm neither making money nor losing money on trade skills. At some point I'm going to need a certifiable way to make a lot of plat.

I wish a mount would drop for me in the invasions...

 

[pontifex]

I'm at 53 plat at level 41. Saving for the 125 plat I'll need for 110% run speed horse. I'm only maintaining 2 roles at this moment (purchased 3rd role but its blank). However, when I started I was given a stack of huge bags so I've been able to keep nearly everything I've picked up.

My trade skills are butcher, forager and miner. But I give all my harvested goods to the guild. So I'm neither making money nor losing money on trade skills. At some point I'm going to need a certifiable way to make a lot of plat.

I wish a mount would drop for me in the invasions...

artifacts on the AH...on my server they are a regular source of income for me. people buy them left and right and willing to pay lots of gold for them.


i had about 160 plat when i hit 50

 

[Throckmorton]

artifacts on the AH...on my server they are a regular source of income for me. people buy them left and right and willing to pay lots of gold for them.


i had about 160 plat when i hit 50

They don't pay much on my server. IMO they set the mount prices way too high. We basically have to wait for runaway inflation for them to be affordable.

I get that it's supposed to be challenging but it's excessive. You mean to tell me I can save several towns from werewolves/witches/cattle rustlers/whatever yet I can't afford a horse?


It's like WoW. According to the "storyline" you're a unique hero (like everybody else who does the quests), yet you can't afford a crummy 200% speed flying mount until you're way past the required level.

 

[Avogadro]

Roles are very situational. I'm waiting for loads of plat to drop in my lap so I can buy my 4th role and make a necro build. The other nice thing is, if I get bored, I just switch roles.

Once you get to 50 and are running experts, you'll find that having all four roles is very handy to super-subspecialize. My current role setup is:

1) Heavy paragon/champion for solo questing and melee DPS, aka the blender build. I'd probably PvP like this too, but on a strictly casual basis.

2) AoE threat monster tank (paladin/reaver/warlord) for trash packs in expert dungeons. My gear is good enough now that this one feels a lot like tanking in WoW: pull the mobs in, hit your AoE threat abilities, and let your DPS reduce everything to bloody pulp.

3) High physical mitigation tank (paladin/void knight/warlord) for bosses. I didn't need to use this one very much in T1s, but I'm graduating to T2 experts very soon and putting in the practice time should pay off.

4) Anti-knockback tank (paragon to 21 points/paladin/warlord). This is a little counterintuitive but Way of the Mountain and Bend Like the Reed allow you to absolutely cheese some otherwise annoying-for-no-good-reason boss fights.

The cool thing is that I could easily think of two more builds I'd like to have: a magical damage mitigation tank build that went very heavy into void knight, and a specialized PvP build that took advantage of the PvP soul. And this is all with one character, mind you.

PS. Don't worry about plat. Once you hit 50, you get access to daily quests that pay you 25g each, and you can knock out a dozen of them in the space of an hour or so. Add to that the vendor trash and whatever harvesting materials you find along the way, and it's not hard to earn 5-6 plat in a couple of hours.

EDIT: an additional comment regarding the L50 epic mount. Not gonna lie, it *is* noticeably faster, but the game world isn't so large that having it vs. the L40 mount will dramatically change your playing experience. At least it didn't for me. Going from 60% to 90% (the starter mount vs. the L40 one) felt like a much bigger difference than going from 90% to 110%. So don't stress about not being able to pay for an epic mount the moment you hit 50.

 

[skace]

I can remember a few times in WoW where going from one area to another required passing THROUGH a area where, at my level at the time, straying from the road meant instant death.

That is true. However I never feared those deaths. Not like I feared death in EQ. I've run through some dangerous areas in rift where I certainly could die.

 

[JoshGuru7]

If you PvP as well, you'll find that 4 roles isn't nearly enough for what you want.

My cleric would like to have at least 7 builds:
1) PvE DPS (31 Druid/26 Shaman/11 Inq)
2) PvE Tank (36 Justi/Druid/Shaman)
3) PvE Healer A (51 purifier/15 warden)
4) PvE Healer B (44 warden/22 sent)
5) PvE Healer C (51 sent/15 warden)
6) PvP DPS (51 cab/3 inq/12 justi)
7) PvP Healer (45 warden/21 templar)

Right now I've had to scrap my tanking, sentinel healing, and PvP healing roles even though I often run into situations where I wish I had them available.

 

[akugami]

I see some are making great use of the different roles. Honestly, four is a lot. It's certainly more customization than what some of us have been used to that have played older games like EQ1. I know JoshGuru7 is wishing he had more roles but at the same time there has to be some limits. As a mage four builds will take me through most situations. A solo build, a healer build, a DPS build, and a PvP build which I haven't made cause I'm not big on PvP.

I've been lucky that I play with my brother and he has an outfitter so higher slot bags have been easy to come by. We share resources as well so most of the time, barring extremely rare materials, we have enough to level up our individual crafters.

 

[Throckmorton]

The role thing basically makes it so there are no consequences to your character development decisions. I think they went too far with the Fisher Price-ization. IMO a somewhat costly re-spec is enough.

 

[skace]

Eh, someone who can make 1 bad build can make 4 bad builds. You could make a DPS build that sucks, a tank build that sucks and a healer build that sucks. If you do you are respeccing just like you would in any other game. Even though I have 2 roles, I've respecced once and I'm rather technical about how I go about building my chars.

People that call it "Fisher Price-ization" really do not understand what the developer has done. If you want to use your roles to make 4 DPS builds because you can't figure out how to make a single decent DPS build, so be it. But when people are looking for people to run a dungeon with, your shotgun approach to DPS is going to make you less desirable than someone who has a solid DPS role as well as other roles.

Out of all the things Rift does right or wrong, I personally think the roles are probably one of their better and more interesting choices. Interesting that for a game that borrows so much from predecessors, the few areas they tried new things in were, in my book, impressive attempts (roles, invasions and public grouping/merging).

 

[JoshGuru7]

I see some are making great use of the different roles. Honestly, four is a lot... I'm not big on PvP.

I agree that you can get by very well on a mage with four roles if you're not interested in PvP. That's why I mentioned my cleric who does PvP, and specifically identified PvP as a gating factor that influences whether people are satisfied with four roles at endgame.

If you were into PvP, you would find that Archmage is pretty much mandatory for either your DPS or Heal spec and requires seperate roles as such. You can still get by with PvE Heal, PvE DPS, PvP Heal, PvP DPS but then you are discarding one of the roles that you identified for yourself - PvE Solo build.

 

[Arsinek]

What are yalls overall impressions of this game. Ive heard people complain theres not much to it other then leveling.

 

[The Sauce]

I have always enjoyed weird aspects of these games. I particularly enjoy farming and gold hoarding. In Guild Wars I spend most of my time running people for cash. I'm up to over 200P @ L47. Along those lines the most profitable endeavors are artifact farming and crafting - particularly runes. Everyone needs runes to apply to armor and weapons to be competitive. Also there are certain areas in the game where artifact nodes are very dense. A 5 minute run through these areas could net you 10-12 artifacts which average about 30-60g each. After a while you get to know which artifacts are worth something and whch are worth nothing. There are some in the game worth 5-10P. I can often make 2-5P in an hour artifact farming and AH'ing. Selling crafting materials can also net a lot of cash. For instance a 50-pk bolts of silk goes for about 2P on my sever atm.

 

[The Sauce]

What are yalls overall impressions of this game. Ive heard people complain theres not much to it other then leveling.

As with all things, it depends on how you approach it. I have friends and guild members who are only interested in levelling and gear. I take my time and explore everything and talk to everyone. I level slowly but enjoy it tremendously. It makes the game less of a grind. Along those lines it is a huge, beautiful world to explore, like Morrowind or Oblivion, with plenty of non-combat, non-levelling things to do, secrets, special off-the-beaten-path adventures, etc. There are puzzles, hidden treasures...all sorts of things to keep interest up. Most people jump straight to the end to get levelled up and do not avail themselves of most of the interesting content in the game.

 

[Throckmorton]

OK I'm seriously bored. Hit level 30 and realized that even though it's a milestone, I don't get any new spells or anything... because it's all based on the skill trees. I'm almost at the top of the Blade Dancer tree.... and up there is just a stupid area of effect attack.

Not only that but I realized that I forgot to do PVP while I was at the top of the bracket. Now there's no point until I hit 39.

I just canceled so I don't forget again. 24 days left and then I quit if something doesn't make the game fun again.

 

[Throckmorton]

Eh, someone who can make 1 bad build can make 4 bad builds. You could make a DPS build that sucks, a tank build that sucks and a healer build that sucks. If you do you are respeccing just like you would in any other game. Even though I have 2 roles, I've respecced once and I'm rather technical about how I go about building my chars.

People that call it "Fisher Price-ization" really do not understand what the developer has done. If you want to use your roles to make 4 DPS builds because you can't figure out how to make a single decent DPS build, so be it. But when people are looking for people to run a dungeon with, your shotgun approach to DPS is going to make you less desirable than someone who has a solid DPS role as well as other roles.

Out of all the things Rift does right or wrong, I personally think the roles are probably one of their better and more interesting choices. Interesting that for a game that borrows so much from predecessors, the few areas they tried new things in were, in my book, impressive attempts (roles, invasions and public grouping/merging).

It makes it less of an RPG though. Character development is an integral part of RPGs... but this whole easy respecs trend takes that away completely. The character is basically switching between characters.

They may have created a hokey "soul" explanation in this one game, but it's not really believable to switch classes with the click of a button. Imagine if you could do that in real life. Don't like the major you picked in college? Go to a trainer and switch to a whole new one, without having to repeat college!

 

[SunnyD]

OK I'm seriously bored. Hit level 30 and realized that even though it's a milestone, I don't get any new spells or anything... because it's all based on the skill trees. I'm almost at the top of the Blade Dancer tree.... and up there is just a stupid area of effect attack.

Not only that but I realized that I forgot to do PVP while I was at the top of the bracket. Now there's no point until I hit 39.

I just canceled so I don't forget again. 24 days left and then I quit if something doesn't make the game fun again.

Wow. I live for stupid area effect attacks! My chloro/lock loves pulling 4-6 mobs at a time then unloading with devouring shadows -> mortality (if needed) -> devouring shadows (if needed).

In PvP running pyro/archon/elementalist I'm dropping backdraft+fire storm+lava field+burning ground.

Or, if I'm running my domi/SC build, well, that's just all AoE. Period.

 

[akugami]

It makes it less of an RPG though. Character development is an integral part of RPGs... but this whole easy respecs trend takes that away completely. The character is basically switching between characters.

They may have created a hokey "soul" explanation in this one game, but it's not really believable to switch classes with the click of a button. Imagine if you could do that in real life. Don't like the major you picked in college? Go to a trainer and switch to a whole new one, without having to repeat college!

As with all things, it's a matter of perspective. I hate to bring real life into it but IMHO it's more like learning different skills and being able to bring them to the front at will. For example, you can graduate with double majors in college. They can be on vastly different subjects. Just because you are doing some work that uses one of your majors doesn't mean you can't turn around and use the skills/knowledge to complete work in your second major.

Or if you're into physical activities it's like learning how to play golf and play basketball. Both are physical activities. Both are completely different in terms of skills needed. Just because you are playing golf in the morning doesn't mean you can't turn around and play some basketball int he afternoon and be very good at both.

 

[Anneka]

OK just started to play the game a few days ago.
The main problem is the low population on moderate populated servers.
It's pretty hard to find in normal day time people to do an instance or other things....

 

[Throckmorton]

As with all things, it's a matter of perspective. I hate to bring real life into it but IMHO it's more like learning different skills and being able to bring them to the front at will. For example, you can graduate with double majors in college. They can be on vastly different subjects. Just because you are doing some work that uses one of your majors doesn't mean you can't turn around and use the skills/knowledge to complete work in your second major.

Or if you're into physical activities it's like learning how to play golf and play basketball. Both are physical activities. Both are completely different in terms of skills needed. Just because you are playing golf in the morning doesn't mean you can't turn around and play some basketball int he afternoon and be very good at both.

But is Tiger Woods as good at basketball as he as at golf? No, because he's spent his whole career becoming good at golf.

This system is like a traditional class MMO letting you switch between classes. Don't like being a rogue, no problem, hit a button and you're a mage, until you hit the button again.

 

[s1njin]

It makes it less of an RPG though. Character development is an integral part of RPGs... but this whole easy respecs trend takes that away completely. The character is basically switching between characters. They may have created a hokey "soul" explanation in this one game, but it's not really believable to switch classes with the click of a button. Imagine if you could do that in real life. Don't like the major you picked in college? Go to a trainer and switch to a whole new one, without having to repeat college! __________________ K&N air filter = 45x as much dirt in your engine (working link) Bring back the old confused smiley http://i52.tinypic.com/50lf0y.gif

I'm with you on this. Its my primary sticking point w/ the game, and as luck would have it, the game's primary selling point. So those that are somewhat opposed to this aspect probably won't like the game.

I'm torn really because the game is beautiful. I really enjoy the visual aspects of it. But I'm just not totally on board w/ the whole "Pick a class, now spec out the class so you can do whatever you want". Feels like God mode or like a developer back door or some secret cheat code or something.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but clerics and rogues shouldn't be able to tank !!!

*shrug*

 

[cblais19]

I'm with you on this. Its my primary sticking point w/ the game, and as luck would have it, the game's primary selling point. So those that are somewhat opposed to this aspect probably won't like the game.

I'm torn really because the game is beautiful. I really enjoy the visual aspects of it. But I'm just not totally on board w/ the whole "Pick a class, now spec out the class so you can do whatever you want". Feels like God mode or like a developer back door or some secret cheat code or something.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but clerics and rogues shouldn't be able to tank !!!

*shrug*

Why shouldnt they? This really boggles the mind here, what is preventing a man wearing heavy chain with a shield and mace, blessed by the gods with wards and other methods of avoiding hits from being the one standing toe to toe with the big bad monsters? What's preventing a nimble rogue who is a master of parrying and dodging from keeping the enemies attention with a myriad of quick, cutting attacks, while avoiding the return hits?

Open up to new possibilities. Not only does it make the game far smoother and more fun for many players (eg, no more, oh, your a rogue, well your dps sucks and thats your only role, so go solo), but its streching the boundaries and showing true imagination. The whole concept of the Riftstalker class, with its plane shift mechanics? Finishers to give temporary tanking buffs? That has got to be one of of the most interesting concepts behind a tank class I've seen, and works really well with the rogue archetype.

But is Tiger Woods as good at basketball as he as at golf? No, because he's spent his whole career becoming good at golf.

This system is like a traditional class MMO letting you switch between classes. Don't like being a rogue, no problem, hit a button and you're a mage, until you hit the button again.

Regarding this, I think a signficant percentage of MMO players would love exactly that, the ability to switch classes at whim. Why not? Many of us do indeed have limited time, and would like to truly do what we find fun while we play. If our cleric is getting a bit ho-hum, perhaps we would like to participate in tonights end game content with the guild, but without having to had already levelled an alt. Although Rift doesn't do exactly that, it does at least let you switch between various roles to keep things fresh.

Oh, and stats are consistant between roles, although there may be some heavier weights for certain specs (exception here is tanking and Toughness), so you're not forced to aquire multiple sets of gear to at least play around some.

 

[pontifex]

But is Tiger Woods as good at basketball as he as at golf? No, because he's spent his whole career becoming good at golf.

This system is like a traditional class MMO letting you switch between classes. Don't like being a rogue, no problem, hit a button and you're a mage, until you hit the button again.

i'm wondering if you even really play the game... you can't go from rogue to mage in the same character.

 

[s1njin]

Why shouldnt they? This really boggles the mind here, what is preventing a man wearing heavy chain with a shield and mace, blessed by the gods with wards and other methods of avoiding hits from being the one standing toe to toe with the big bad monsters? What's preventing a nimble rogue who is a master of parrying and dodging from keeping the enemies attention with a myriad of quick, cutting attacks, while avoiding the return hits?

Well, this is the way I look at it.

A straight warrior bred class (Champion, whatever sub spec you want to pick) to me is somebody akin to Sparticus (from the Showtime series of the same name). These guys practice with sword and shield day in and day out sunrise to sunset perfecting their craft. And once they become proficient, they are masters of the arena. Or in this case, the battlefield.

They know the intracies of wearing plate. How to time their sword swings, how to take a shot to the body and absorb it, how to swing through the pain. How to identify a opponents weaknesses, etc. Its what they DO.

Like Tiger Woods (as mentioned earlier). He has spent countless hours day in and day out swinging a golf club. He knows how to do it. Its what he DOES. Now, just because he decides one day 'Hey, I'm going to be a tennis player' doesn't mean he can just read a book, take a couple of lessons, and go out and become the next Pete Sampras.

As for your cleric tanking? Why shouldn't they be able to tank? Well, all those spells they cast has to take some time to learn. How to channel that energy. Those spells should come from some devotion to a God or some such thing, so considerable time reflecting/praying is involved w/ a Priest class. So where do they fit in the endless hours of practice that the Warrior endures to be good at his class?

Sure a cleric can wear chain. That's so he can survive a couple of beats before folding, not to stand on the front line as the meat shield.

Oh, and I have a low level warrior here w/ some sort of spell to pull mobs to me. Same argument but reverse. Warriors don't cast damnit ....

 

[Veliko]

As for your cleric tanking? Why shouldn't they be able to tank? Well, all those spells they cast

All those spells they cast are what enable them to function as a tank but with a different style.

Like Tiger Woods (as mentioned earlier). He has spent countless hours day in and day out swinging a golf club. He knows how to do it. Its what he DOES. Now, just because he decides one day 'Hey, I'm going to be a tennis player' doesn't mean he can just read a book, take a couple of lessons, and go out and become the next Pete Sampras.

Well, Michael Schumacher is a very good footballer.