[MMO] World of Tanks

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ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Sorry, i need to clarify. I was not on the update. I won't be able to try that until this weekend.

Ok whew. I was about to have a sad. Can't wait to get out of the coal mine today and get some time in on the patch.
 

PlasmaBomb

Lifer
Nov 19, 2004
11,636
2
81
^Then you weren't playing against a good side or good arty.

Hell I've clocked up a number of kills with arty in a single match. At least the arty balance seems better now, no more SU-18 and SU-26 (and a few times SU-26 and SU-5) on one side against Hummels on the other... that was rather one sided.
 

PlasmaBomb

Lifer
Nov 19, 2004
11,636
2
81
Have played as a Hetzer, can't say I have noticed any warping, seems to be good so far. Although I have been ganged up on a few times. What made up for it was playing against a side heavy in American tanks... nom nom nom.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,553
3,714
126
On a side note, I switch the gun on my hetzer to the 10.5cm and went all HE rounds. Thank you guys, that made it fun to play. I went from getting only 100-200 xp up to around 600-900 now. Plus I can one shot the lower level tanks if I hit the sides or back. The teleporting is still rough, and I did accidently kill some artillery on my side a few times because of it.

Yeah - there was a big difference when I made the switch too. Just be sure you don't miss the first time!

no? almost every match I have t fight just to live through the opening rounds, and if actually survive the onslaught of 1602s then I might get a few kills. arty was easily countered, even if they were powerful.

I would have to disagree. In the matches I played you were way more likely to see arty with 4+ kills than any tank. There needed to be more deviation in their hit zones
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
3
56
Yeah - there was a big difference when I made the switch too. Just be sure you don't miss the first time!



I would have to disagree. In the matches I played you were way more likely to see arty with 4+ kills than any tank. There needed to be more deviation in their hit zones

Wrong.

Have you ever played an arty? They're just fine. I have 14 shells in my SU-5 and that seems to be pretty even. The best way to balance arty is to simply lower the number of rounds they can have.
 

Elcs

Diamond Member
Apr 27, 2002
6,278
6
81
As promised, I have posted my first impressions of the v0.6.1.5 patch and it can be found here.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Wrong.

Have you ever played an arty? They're just fine. I have 14 shells in my SU-5 and that seems to be pretty even. The best way to balance arty is to simply lower the number of rounds they can have.

Just fine for arty players. Amazingly OP classes in any game never seem to think there is a problem.

Are you going to deny that 75%+ of games are decided solely by artillery? If you kill the other teams arty early then you will most likely win, if you let them live you will lose. Most games are not much more complicated than that and amazingly the vast majority of us who don't play SPG's normally don't think that's quite right.
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
3
56
Other players will whine and bitch about everything.

Part of the reason I don't play this awesome game anymore is because of the amazing amount of whining.

Everything has an advantage over one thing and a disadvantage over something else.

Arty are NOT overpowered. Arty are slow, have limited range, have no armor, blah blah. They're glass canons. That's what they're supposed to be.

There should be a maximum number of arty per battle (maybe 4 total? 6 total?), but nothing about SPGs needs to change except maybe the number of rounds they can fire.

And, yes, 75% of the games are decided solely by arty is absolute and complete bullshit and you know it. We've all had those battles where arty is wiped right away or tanks rush and waste them with no effort. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. BFD. Remember, in every single battle, there WILL be a loser. You have a 50% chance to be one every single time you click that Battle button. Take your licks like everyone else because whining about something that isn't imbalanced won't fix it and just annoys your fellow tankers.

I play my IS and T43 more than anything, but I have a well-used arty. It seems as though those who bitch and whine about arty (when they're not bitching and whining about literally EVERYTHING else) are the ones that don't play arty and haven't pushed through the long, challenging grind to an arty that doesn't suck. Tanks get easier and more fun much faster than arty do but people aren't willing to acknowledge that as a weakness either because they're too busy bitching at whatever denies them being top dog and better than everyone else.
 
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Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,553
3,714
126
Wrong.

Have you ever played an arty? They're just fine. I have 14 shells in my SU-5 and that seems to be pretty even. The best way to balance arty is to simply lower the number of rounds they can have.

Yes I have played arty. Don't you think it's odd that a TD stationary can't hit a tank a couple hundred yards away due to the built in deviation values but an arty is much more accurate from 2x the distance? Esp considering the trajectory of the shell means it covers even more distance?
 
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Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
3
56
Yes I have played arty. Don't you think it's odd that a TD stationary can't hit a tank a couple hundred yards away but an arty is much more accurate from 2x the distance? Esp considering the trajectory of the shell means it covers even more distance?

Have you ever tried hitting something inside 100m with arty?

Have you ever tried hitting anything inside 50m with arty?

Good fuckin luck.

Arty isn't any good at close range. Yet another WEAKNESS that people would rather ignore so they can continue whining about arty.

Another WEAKNESS that arty have to contend with is accuracy. In order for arty to be accurate, they have to have their reticle inside their stationary, extremely narrow line in front of them. The barrel will swing left and right to some small degree, but having to move the tank AT ALL to move that narrow firing arc means their targeting reticle instantly goes back to full size and they have to wait another 8 seconds to be accurate within that narrow few degrees in front of them.

If you get hit by arty, it's because they were already facing that direction, already looking at you, already zoomed in on you, their reticle was already shrinking down to the size of your tank. Any other tank would have had AMPLE time to destroy you.

If you get hit by arty, you earned receiving that shell.
 
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ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Other players will whine and bitch about everything.

Part of the reason I don't play this awesome game anymore is because of the amazing amount of whining.

Everything has an advantage over one thing and a disadvantage over something else.

Arty are NOT overpowered. Arty are slow, have limited range, have no armor, blah blah. They're glass canons. That's what they're supposed to be.

There should be a maximum number of arty per battle (maybe 4 total? 6 total?), but nothing about SPGs needs to change except maybe the number of rounds they can fire.

And, yes, 75% of the games are decided solely by arty is absolute and complete bullshit and you know it. We've all had those battles where arty is wiped right away or tanks rush and waste them with no effort. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. BFD. Remember, in every single battle, there WILL be a loser. You have a 50% chance to be one every single time you click that Battle button. Take your licks like everyone else because whining about something that isn't imbalanced won't fix it and just annoys your fellow tankers.

I play my IS and T43 more than anything, but I have a well-used arty. It seems as though those who bitch and whine about arty (when they're not bitching and whining about literally EVERYTHING else) are the ones that don't play arty and haven't pushed through the long, challenging grind to an arty that doesn't suck. Tanks get easier and more fun much faster than arty do but people aren't willing to acknowledge that as a weakness either because they're too busy bitching at whatever denies them being top dog and better than everyone else.

Hummels can outrun and out turn some medium tanks and TD's and still one-shot many opponents while not being one-shotted themselves. Yeah the Russians don't have an equivalent but they have their ridiculous guns.

Most maps are small enough that range isn't a big factor, SPG's can hide in a forested corner and still hit nearly any spot on the map.

We'll see how the changes work out but to argue that NO changes were needed is pure fantasy. That's what I'm railing against.
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
3
56
Some. SOME tanks it can out turn and SOME tanks it can outrun. Who cares? Arty never do anything but find a place to hide and then sit there in Arty mode (or whatever mode is called when you hit shift).

Oh, and when they're in that mode, their situational awareness goes down the tubes outside of the tiny square they can see into and the pathetically useless map at the bottom. Yet another weakness that every other tank has over them.

And Hummels are top tier arty. Do you have any idea how long it takes to EARN a Hummel? That's like saying an IS7 is OP because it has more armor and hits harder.

They still don't one-shot everything. They still have a very narrow firing arc and are only accurate at long range.

blah blah blah

see? You're just ignoring the stuff that matters just so you can continue whining about arty.
 
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Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,553
3,714
126
Have you ever tried hitting something inside 100m with arty?

Have you ever tried hitting anything inside 50m with arty?

Good fuckin luck.

Arty isn't any good at close range. Yet another WEAKNESS that people would rather ignore so they can continue whining about arty.

Another WEAKNESS that arty have to contend with is accuracy. In order for arty to be accurate, they have to have their reticle inside their stationary, extremely narrow line in front of them. The barrel will swing left and right to some small degree, but having to move the tank AT ALL to move that narrow firing arc means their targeting reticle instantly goes back to full size and they have to wait another 8 seconds to be accurate within that narrow few degrees in front of them.

If you get hit by arty, it's because they were already facing that direction, already looking at you, already zoomed in on you, their reticle was already shrinking down to the size of your tank. Any other tank would have had AMPLE time to destroy you.

If you get hit by arty, you earned receiving that shell.

So do you or do you not think it's odd that an artillery piece is significantly more accurate at medium range than a TD? The accuracy at medium/long range is the STRENGTH of arty. It is the most accurate weapon on the map for medium/longrange shots. IMO there is no reason arty should be more accurate than a stationary TD at medium range
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
3
56
You're nit picking at something that isn't breaking the game.

It doesn't matter that arty is the most accurate at those ranges (even though that's FALSE) because that doesn't break the game. There are so many more disadvantages to being an arty that something as simple as that just doesn't even make up for those disadvantages.

By the way, I fired 4 shots and got 3 kills with my TD the other day. All 4 shots were against a group of 3 tanks literally across the map and were BARELY in range enough to see them. Fired 4 shots, killed all 3 tanks, and that was while they were zipping around in circles trying to avoid the tanks at point blank range that were trying to kill them.

Your argument is completely pointless.
 

PlasmaBomb

Lifer
Nov 19, 2004
11,636
2
81
I play my IS and T43 more than anything, but I have a well-used arty. It seems as though those who bitch and whine about arty (when they're not bitching and whining about literally EVERYTHING else) are the ones that don't play arty and haven't pushed through the long, challenging grind to an arty that doesn't suck. Tanks get easier and more fun much faster than arty do but people aren't willing to acknowledge that as a weakness either because they're too busy bitching at whatever denies them being top dog and better than everyone else.

Also you may want to hang back when you start playing and find where the arty hides. There are key places on each map, chosen for quickness of set up (not the nearest bush), good firing lines etc.

Then try playing as arty yourself, it really helps, find the places where you can't hit someone - then use them to your advantage when you are tanking...

Basically like anything if you want to be good you got to put some effort in to learn!
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Some. SOME tanks it can out turn and SOME tanks it can outrun. Who cares? Arty never do anything but find a place to hide and then sit there in Arty mode (or whatever mode is called when you hit shift).

Oh, and when they're in that mode, their situational awareness goes down the tubes outside of the tiny square they can see into and the pathetically useless map at the bottom. Yet another weakness that every other tank has over them.

And Hummels are top tier arty. Do you have any idea how long it takes to EARN a Hummel? That's like saying an IS7 is OP because it has more armor and hits harder.

They still don't one-shot everything. They still have a very narrow firing arc and are only accurate at long range.

blah blah blah

see? You're just ignoring the stuff that matters just so you can continue whining about arty.

Having spent many games chasing Hummels around the map, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Good Hummel drivers will make use of their advantages and not sit in one spot.

Despite all of these drastic disadvantageous arty makes or breaks nearly every single match and often they will have the most kills. To me that is what matters, not things that you perceive as crushing weaknesses.

Hummel doesn't take long at all from a PIV which is an XP machine when upgraded.

Like your idea of an ammo nerf, how often are you ever in threat of running out of ammo? Aside from some very long matches it's a pretty rare occurrence even for the big boys.

It's not like SPG drivers didn't have a chance to make their case or this was a rash decision. The devs obviously felt this was a needed change.

Just played my first match post patch, wanna guess who the top gun was? Ding ding yeah an S-51 with 5 kills.

So I'm not going spend too much time feeling sorry for you guys, I think you'll still be plenty effective.

Bottom line - has their been more complaining about arty than was justified? Absolutely. Does that mean there were no legitimate concerns? Absolutely not.
 

heat901

Senior member
Dec 17, 2009
750
0
0
You're nit picking at something that isn't breaking the game.

It doesn't matter that arty is the most accurate at those ranges (even though that's FALSE) because that doesn't break the game. There are so many more disadvantages to being an arty that something as simple as that just doesn't even make up for those disadvantages.

By the way, I fired 4 shots and got 3 kills with my TD the other day. All 4 shots were against a group of 3 tanks literally across the map and were BARELY in range enough to see them. Fired 4 shots, killed all 3 tanks, and that was while they were zipping around in circles trying to avoid the tanks at point blank range that were trying to kill them.

Your argument is completely pointless.

Going to have to agree that arty isnt OP, especially with certain maps that provide a lot of cover with buildings and mountains. If you are complaining that arty is killing you to much then you are doing something wrong and/or need to(and im going there ) L2P. Arty is the glasscannon, they aren't meant for close range battles and are easy targets when it comes to close range.

I just think TDs need to be buffed up or something from all the complaints I hear about them. Then again if you play against a player that knows how to use a TD they are surprisingly effective and something to watch out for.
 

PlasmaBomb

Lifer
Nov 19, 2004
11,636
2
81
20 rounds don't last all that long even if you are only firing at ~10 rpm. The high tier arty packs a punch, so you should plan that into your game.

Ever played a match with no arty? They are either really long or really short. If a couple of heavies decide to roll without fear of arty, they can tear apart a disorganised team damn quick...
 

videogames101

Diamond Member
Aug 24, 2005
6,783
27
91
Yeah, btw, it's easy to stay behind cover and not get hit with arty. L2P

You can tell the great heavy players because they'll always have some obstacle between the arty and them, and not just sitting behind a building, map positioning.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,553
3,714
126
You're nit picking at something that isn't breaking the game.

It doesn't matter that arty is the most accurate at those ranges (even though that's FALSE) because that doesn't break the game. There are so many more disadvantages to being an arty that something as simple as that just doesn't even make up for those disadvantages.

I never said it broke the game. I would also say that just because something doesn't break the game doesn't mean it shouldn't be tweaked. Clearly the game developers agree at this point because they are adjusting the accuracy
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
Yeah, btw, it's easy to stay behind cover and not get hit with arty. L2P

You can tell the great heavy players because they'll always have some obstacle between the arty and them, and not just sitting behind a building, map positioning.

Except that its impossible to do that all the time. You HAVE to move unless you want to get flanked. Which brings up the great paradox. Especially as a TD. There've been many times I've died because I moved to fire at tanks that were flanking me, then right when i fire, BOOM insta dead. So in order to not die I have to move, but if I need to move, they already have me in their sights, so as soon as I move, artillery is all over my ass. Great.

30 seconds into the game when I'm struggling to get my slow ass into cover, a fast scout spots me, BOOM from the other side of the map.

When I'm struggling to get to the point to cap, BOOM.

I HAVE to move all the time to get great firing spots. Unless you expect me to sit in one place at all times because as soon as I pop out 3 artillery pieces are going to hit me. I fire straight so I need to completely pop out of cover to fire which leaves me with no defense against artillery.

The entire game slows down because of Artillery. Today I had the pleasure of playing a game without a SINGLE PIECE of artillery, and it was more fun than any game with artillery. People weren't scared of being popped by random shots so everyone moved up and had some damn fun tank battles because we weren't all trying to squeeze into the tiny bits of cover that happen to stop artillery so everyone stayed mobile and moved around alot and was fast paced.

Alot of maps simply don't offer protection against artillery. The one map flanked by a railroad is simply a giant open field. Unless tanks manage to destroy the artillery on the other side, its a field day for those guns because there's barely any usable cover. Some of the new maps are just one big field with a town in the middle.

Many maps are just that, a giant open field with random houses providing cover. Artillery just wtfpwns and gets amazing amounts of kills because of that.
 
Mar 10, 2005
14,647
2
0
Yeah, btw, it's easy to stay behind cover and not get hit with arty. L2P

You can tell the great heavy players because they'll always have some obstacle between the arty and them, and not just sitting behind a building, map positioning.

you can tell the great heavy players because they'll always be at the back of the pack hiding behind smaller tanks. no, really. i stop my medium to let them catch up, and they put it in park. i back up, they back up. i'll call them out by name, no response. this is a pretty common trend, maybe half of the heavies do this.

as for artillery, i've played it (to learn how to beat it) and all i can say is:
god-cam, easy mode, win button.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,553
3,714
126
After playing some the match balance seems a lot better. Also - I like the nerfing of autoaim - now it takes a bit more skill to hit a moving target or hit while you are moving
 
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