[MMO] World of Tanks

[biostud]

I only have the Fv185b 183 TD, so not a big difference for me.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Kind of glad I only have 2 TD lines (original German, and Russian). Sounds like most of these are pointless now. Without the camo, the drawbacks on them are not worth it anymore. Yes the WAF line needed to be nerfed, but the rest of them were pretty much fine.

Now the front armor needs to be about 2x as bouncy as it currently is on the TD's for them to be viable again, or they need turrets, or they need 2x the speed to move out of that spot. I mean seriously, you might as well use a heavy tank and sit behind that bush. You will more likely be able to snipe from there and not be seen than a TD and you have the added armor (in almost all cases), and in some cases better speed (IS line most certainly is faster than all but the German WAF line and the Hellcat).

 

[PowerYoga]

It's not like you're suddenly visible from 500m away. You keep your camo untill you fire, and other tanks with low view ranges still can't see you.

This changes nothing about how I play my TDs but it makes finding them after they fire easier, instead of making it impossible until you eat 3 shells in your side.

 

[stag3]

typical wg, wtf nerf incoming. going from a 6 to a 5 round clip. reload from 60 to 51.
accuracy to be nerfed as well.

they put wtf on the ontrack, had everyone use gold to free xp down the line, wait 1-2 mos, then nerf it hahahahaha bait and switch ftw.

i don't mind, i have the wtf but don't play it much as it's just not fun to play

 

[Possessed Freak]

typical wg, wtf nerf incoming. going from a 6 to a 5 round clip. reload from 60 to 51.
accuracy to be nerfed as well.

they put wtf on the ontrack, had everyone use gold to free xp down the line, wait 1-2 mos, then nerf it hahahahaha bait and switch ftw.

i don't mind, i have the wtf but don't play it much as it's just not fun to play

The thing needed to be nerfed into the ground. I have one and it was retardedly easy to play. I benched it after only a few plays because it was dull. Fire 6 times, see if I live for a minute, fire again 6 times. Rape shit till I die.

 

[stag3]

yea it's zzz to play, i have way more fun in the 183 hahaha

 

[lozina]

Does the camo calcs currently consider size of tank at all?

Being successfully camo'd should be easier if you are: (talking in terms of gameplay balance not realism, though most of it is realistic)
a) the smaller the tank is
b) the lower tier your tank is
c) when you fire the chance of being seen should be smaller if you have smaller caliber gun

regardless of camo equipment + crew ability

 

[biostud]

I think I get quite easily spotted in the fv185b 183, so I think size does matter

 

[skipsneeky2]

This tank soccer mode is so much fun, i could see a real life version of this except with blank shells. Something tells me that this mode is perhaps inspired by such a thing?

 

[Possessed Freak]

Does the camo calcs currently consider size of tank at all?

Being successfully camo'd should be easier if you are: (talking in terms of gameplay balance not realism, though most of it is realistic)
a) the smaller the tank is
b) the lower tier your tank is
c) when you fire the chance of being seen should be smaller if you have smaller caliber gun

regardless of camo equipment + crew ability

WG creates the camo values of a tank mostly based on these with some oddballs thrown in.

 

[PowerYoga]

typical wg, wtf nerf incoming. going from a 6 to a 5 round clip. reload from 60 to 51.
accuracy to be nerfed as well.

they put wtf on the ontrack, had everyone use gold to free xp down the line, wait 1-2 mos, then nerf it hahahahaha bait and switch ftw.

i don't mind, i have the wtf but don't play it much as it's just not fun to play

dude, they've been pulling that shit forever. They did the same shit when french tanks came out, same thing when french TDs came out, etc etc. It should come as no surprise by now, they ALWAYS nerf the new tanks after a few patches.

Does the camo calcs currently consider size of tank at all?

No. The camo checks several "spot" points on your tank, and your tank is as good as not camo'd if one of those "spot" points is not hidden. If your tank is completely hidden by foliage (including the barrel) you won't get spotted unless the scout's view range check exceeds your camo values or unless one of those "spot" points gets seen by the scout. The spot checks happen at set intervals and its the reason why a lot of tanks "disappear" into thin air after a few seconds.

Bigger tanks inherently have less places to hide because the foliage isn't big enough, and most larger heavies (E100, maus, etc) have very low base camo values. But their size is not calculated as a factor in their camo.

Firing your tank's gun removes removes some camo value from the bushes around you I believe. (or it might reduce it to 0, can't remember). You get spotted because you are suddenly not "hidden" by foliage, not because the gun makes your tank easier to see.

 

[wetech]

dude, they've been pulling that shit forever. They did the same shit when french tanks came out, same thing when french TDs came out, etc etc. It should come as no surprise by now, they ALWAYS nerf the new tanks after a few patches.



No. The camo checks several "spot" points on your tank, and your tank is as good as not camo'd if one of those "spot" points is not hidden. If your tank is completely hidden by foliage (including the barrel) you won't get spotted unless the scout's view range check exceeds your camo values or unless one of those "spot" points gets seen by the scout. The spot checks happen at set intervals and its the reason why a lot of tanks "disappear" into thin air after a few seconds.

Your barrel does not have a spot check point. Just the mantlet as far as the barrel goes, not the muzzle.

Bigger tanks inherently have less places to hide because the foliage isn't big enough, and most larger heavies (E100, maus, etc) have very low base camo values. But their size is not calculated as a factor in their camo.

The bigger tanks have a lower base camo value because of their size.

Firing your tank's gun removes removes some camo value from the bushes around you I believe. (or it might reduce it to 0, can't remember). You get spotted because you are suddenly not "hidden" by foliage, not because the gun makes your tank easier to see.

Firing your gun removes the camo bonus for foliage within 15 meters. In addition, your base camo is lowered immediately after firing your gun. So you could be sitting in a field un-spotted (assuming the enemy tanks vision is low enough), but subsequently get spotted upon firing your gun.

 

[stag3]

now i'm getting conflicting reports the 183 is gonna get nerfed

 

[Possessed Freak]

now i'm getting conflicting reports the 183 is gonna get nerfed

Just remember, since release this tank has NEVER been nerfed (beyond class wide nerfs). So while everything around it has been nerfed, this guy has stayed the same... stealth buff.

Up until I stopped playing this game, I ended most every night with a run in the 183. It was so much fun even if RNG trolled me.

 

[stag3]

yea that's why i'm worried, this is the tank win or lose i have fun in. rng is rng, sometimes all your shots give the 400-700 roll, sometimes you get all 1700+ rolls.

problem is the gun is the ONLY thing good about this. armor is shit, turret traverse is shit, reload is shit, 12 shells max. if they get rid of or nerf hesh damage, it would be a complete shit version of jgpze100 except with no armor. when i play against 183's, i don't fear them.

now the wtf, that is completely OP and should get nerfed.

 

[biostud]

You might not fear them, but you have to be quite aware of their location and gun orientation. I don't think it's OP, as you can easily take them out.

 

[PowerYoga]

Your barrel does not have a spot check point. Just the mantlet as far as the barrel goes, not the muzzle.

I've heard conflicting info about this. So I hide the barrel now too. I know that the gun barrel itself does have a hitbox, but hitting it doesn't seem to do anything from some tests.

The bigger tanks have a lower base camo value because of their size.

Not true. Some big vehicles have very high camo values comparatively, for example the IS series.

Firing your gun removes the camo bonus for foliage within 15 meters. In addition, your base camo is lowered immediately after firing your gun. So you could be sitting in a field un-spotted (assuming the enemy tanks vision is low enough), but subsequently get spotted upon firing your gun.

Thanks, that's the information I was looking for, didn't realize it lowers your base camo too.

 

[Daverino]

Thanks, that's the information I was looking for, didn't realize it lowers your base camo too.

Yeah, each tank has three camo ratings. Not moving, moving and firing.

The TD 'camo bonus' which was removed last patch was that TDs had a considerably better firing camo rating than a comparable firing tank. The difference between the firing and not firing camo rating is based on the caliber of the gun being fired. So the bigger the gun you fire, the more your camo rating will drop. TDs could fire large caliber guns with only a small drop in their camo rating before the patch and remain invisible. The Borsig was probably the most notorious as most people run the 'smaller' 128mm because of its better RoF and DPM. After the last patch, all guns of the same caliber will reduce your camo rating by the same amount. So whether it's a Maus or a Borsig firing a 128mm, both will suffer the same camo penalty. The baseline camo for the Borsig is still lower than the Maus, of course, so it has a better chance to stay hidden. But TDs have become much easier to spot after they fire, especially if they have a big caliber gun.

When you fire all bushes and felled trees within 15 meters are removed for the purposes of spotting. If you have a bush between you and the enemy that is over 15m from your tank, you will still get the camo bonus from that bush. The easy test for whether a bush will grant camo after firing is to look at it in sniper view. If it is transparent and you can see buildings and tanks etc through the bush then it is within 15m. If it is opaque it is over 15m. The goal is to be within 15m when spotting (you can spot through the bush but the enemy cannot) but over 15m when firing (the bush continues to provide camo). If you're only concerned about remaining invisible, you want to 'double bush' and keep two or more pieces of foliage between you and the enemy.

Light tanks have the same camo rating whether they are moving or standing still. This allows them to remain undetected slightly longer when moving into position. In my experience, light tanks are still fairly easy to spot, so I've never thought of this as a great advantage.

 

[microAmp]

Camo calculator
http://www.wotinfo.net/en/camo-calculator

And a you vs another tank camo calculator
http://www.wotinfo.net/en/camouflage

 

[stag3]

well i knew the day would come. 9.2 patch
183 hesh pen reduced from 275 to 230
so basically it's a worse jgpze100.
can only be useful against 8's and some 9's now

fuck you wg

 

[PowerYoga]

230? yuck. I guess they want to encourage the use of normal rounds vs HESH for less instances of 1-shot.

 

[stag3]

but the gun handling and reload was not compensated for the pen nerf, so it's pretty much gone the way of the foch155, which means you won't see it anymore

 

[datalink7]

well i knew the day would come. 9.2 patch
183 hesh pen reduced from 275 to 230
so basically it's a worse jgpze100.
can only be useful against 8's and some 9's now

fuck you wg

Noooo! I finally just got the thing. Only about 20 games in it (66 percent win rate or something at t he moment). I can't play until the 12th again because I'm in the middle of a move.

Guess I'll just settle back on my JPE100 when I want a big damage dealer. Despite all of its shortfalls, I enjoy the thing quite a bit and have well over 100 games in it.

After the new nerf, I think this settles it as far as the E3 being the best Tier X TD, at least IMO. Though I haven't played all of them (I have the JPE100, 183, E3 and Waffles).

Edit: This is even more solidified in my mind after seeing the Waffle changes incoming:

- DPM decreased from 2985 to 2903
- clip reload time reduced by 9 seconds (60 to 51)
- 128mm gun now has only 5 shells (earlier 6)
- ROF dropped from 5,331 to 5,185
- accuracy on the move and accuracy when the vehicle turns decreased by roughly 25 percent

 

[stag3]

yea they nerf the 183 yet buff the waffle......
how often do you need that 6th shell? things are usually dead by the 3rd or 4th shot.
i'd rather have 9sec less reload than that 6th shell.

plus the waffle is never turning when clipping, only the turret moves which will not be affected by the accuracy decrease

 

[datalink7]

yea they nerf the 183 yet buff the waffle......
how often do you need that 6th shell? things are usually dead by the 3rd or 4th shot.
i'd rather have 9sec less reload than that 6th shell.

plus the waffle is never turning when clipping, only the turret moves which will not be affected by the accuracy decrease

When I play the Waffle, I actually play the 4 shot version anyway. I know, it is vastly inferior, but I actually don't really enjoy the Waffle that much, so when I do play it the higher alpha damage potential is just more fun for me.