[MMO] World of Tanks

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mooncancook

Platinum Member
May 28, 2003
2,874
50
91
This 9.0 is crashing me a lot and I have no mods. Fortunately most of my crashes happened after the battle. They need to fix this soon.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
While this is true, let's look honestly at the game. Once you get to tier seven, maybe tier eight, you can't practically earn enough credits to afford the next levels anyhow.

I gotta disagree with that. I run tier 7-10 for the most part and most of the battles are profitable for me unless I slung a lot of gold that round. If you're doing your HP's worth in damage every round, it's impossible to NOT profit from even a bad round.

You'll be not-profitable if you derp, cherry pick or hide in the back sniping and not hitting anything.

If you are talking about sniping from 500m and penning a heavy tank with ease with gold ammo, then I say again it is crutch ammo that should NOT exist. Why have armor if the rounds available can pen most anywhere? Which is why this game is currently one of cat and mouse and TDs and Arty. To be anything else is death.

The scenario I was referring to specifically is when I was fighting a T28 on a hill with my caern. Taking the hill means we have dominance over 3/4 of the map, and there were 2 pussy shit tanks behind me that just didn't want to scratch their nice paint. But they would be very valuable on the top of the hill where their pretty tanks won't get hurt while others spotted for them.

Now the caern can't pen the T-28 frontally for the most part, especially when he's hulled down properly. What do I do? Load a few gold rounds, damage him get him to back off and expose himself, and on my 4th gold round he explodes in a ball of flames. Cue the butthurt "nice gold". Yeah, it was nice gold rounds. Those gold rounds let us take the hill and proceed to put flanking shots into 5 heavies which gives us the game. If the T-28 had free reign over that hill, we would be the side with 5 smoldering wrecks.

4 gold rounds into the front of a T-28 "bought" us the game.

I understand you don't want people to auto-aim pen with gold, and for the most part that doesn't happen. You're really exaggerating the effects of gold rounds a tad much since derps will still derp and it will do fuck all to save you from a terrible loss. It just puts "bully" tanks on more even ground with other tanks, see my example with the AT2 and the KV.

Also, british TDs are laughably easy to pen no matter what tank you have. Just aim for the hilariously huge tumor.
 
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Possessed Freak

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 1999
6,045
1
0
The scenario I was referring to specifically is when I was fighting a T28 on a hill with my caern. Taking the hill means we have dominance over 3/4 of the map, and there were 2 pussy shit tanks behind me that just didn't want to scratch their nice paint. But they would be very valuable on the top of the hill where their pretty tanks won't get hurt while others spotted for them.

Now the caern can't pen the T-28 frontally for the most part, especially when he's hulled down properly. What do I do? Load a few gold rounds, damage him get him to back off and expose himself, and on my 4th gold round he explodes in a ball of flames. Cue the butthurt "nice gold". Yeah, it was nice gold rounds. Those gold rounds let us take the hill and proceed to put flanking shots into 5 heavies which gives us the game. If the T-28 had free reign over that hill, we would be the side with 5 smoldering wrecks.

4 gold rounds into the front of a T-28 "bought" us the game.

I understand you don't want people to auto-aim pen with gold, and for the most part that doesn't happen. You're really exaggerating the effects of gold rounds a tad much since derps will still derp and it will do fuck all to save you from a terrible loss. It just puts "bully" tanks on more even ground with other tanks, see my example with the AT2 and the KV.
The T28 pays a LOT for its "armor". It has no speed, none. It has no turret. And what it gets is a supposedly great front armor value and a damn fine gun. The amazingness of his armor was negated by your gold rounds.

Thank you for making my argument for me.
 

stag3

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2005
3,623
0
76
i think anyone who stays long enough to get near their first tier X will enjoy the game enough to buy premium or other stuff. i grinded to the is7 w/o premium and damn it was ROUGH. constantly had to play tier V to pay for the grind.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
The T28 pays a LOT for its "armor". It has no speed, none. It has no turret. And what it gets is a supposedly great front armor value and a damn fine gun. The amazingness of his armor was negated by your gold rounds.

Thank you for making my argument for me.

so it's supposed to be invincible to everything in its tier? I don't understand why you think a tank should be invulnerable at all, and I'm glad gold rounds provided me a fighting chance against the T28 instead of being able to do fuck all to it.

I understand the appeal of playing bully tanks like the T28 and the e75, but expecting people to just lie down infront of you and die without fighting back is pretty silly.
 

Possessed Freak

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 1999
6,045
1
0
so it's supposed to be invincible to everything in its tier? I don't understand why you think a tank should be invulnerable at all, and I'm glad gold rounds provided me a fighting chance against the T28 instead of being able to do fuck all to it.

I understand the appeal of playing bully tanks like the T28 and the e75, but expecting people to just lie down infront of you and die without fighting back is pretty silly.

In your story, the T28 somehow made it to the top of a hill. How did it get up there? Why did your team allow that to happen?

Frontally, yes I fully expect a T28, T95, E75, and a few others to be REALLY hard to engage. Flank them, ignore them, or call in arty.

Otherwise, I reiterate, WHAT IS THE POINT OF "ARMOR" IF GOLD ROUNDS LOL PEN IT? Why have the drawbacks that a T28 has if its armor means nothing?
 

chimaxi83

Diamond Member
May 18, 2003
5,457
63
101
so it's supposed to be invincible to everything in its tier? I don't understand why you think a tank should be invulnerable at all, and I'm glad gold rounds provided me a fighting chance against the T28 instead of being able to do fuck all to it.

I understand the appeal of playing bully tanks like the T28 and the e75, but expecting people to just lie down infront of you and die without fighting back is pretty silly.

This isn't a good argument. Why should you be able to frontally engage any tank you feel like? It's not about being invincible, it's more about tanks having strengths like front armor and weaknesses like terrible speed and no turret, using the T28 as an example.

Instead of tracking/flanking/using any tactics to kill that pesky T28, everyone just loads up premium rounds and can basically auto aim you to death from anywhere.

Unfortunately, premium rounds are now a must with most teams being terrible, or using no teamwork, or both.
 

Ruptga

Lifer
Aug 3, 2006
10,246
207
106
In your story, the T28 somehow made it to the top of a hill. How did it get up there? Why did your team allow that to happen?

Frontally, yes I fully expect a T28, T95, E75, and a few others to be REALLY hard to engage. Flank them, ignore them, or call in arty.

Otherwise, I reiterate, WHAT IS THE POINT OF "ARMOR" IF GOLD ROUNDS LOL PEN IT? Why have the drawbacks that a T28 has if its armor means nothing?

+1

If you let something that slow own the hill it's almost certainly because you and/or your team let him have it.

If you (your team) have no matching heavies then you must have a team of quick tanks, so rush to the good positions and use them to pin their heavy armor. If your team does have matching heavies then use them to counter their heavies. In either scenario you don't need gold rounds, you just need good play.

If you let them have the hill you should be punished for your incompetence; in that case gold rounds are a get out of jail free card for the incompetent person and/or team.

I fully understand the frustration of being 4:1 after your dumbass team got themselves slaughtered, but using gold rounds to ensure the dumbass team wins the match hardly seems fair. Dumbass teams should lose, period.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
In your story, the T28 somehow made it to the top of a hill. How did it get up there? Why did your team allow that to happen?

Frontally, yes I fully expect a T28, T95, E75, and a few others to be REALLY hard to engage. Flank them, ignore them, or call in arty.

Otherwise, I reiterate, WHAT IS THE POINT OF "ARMOR" IF GOLD ROUNDS LOL PEN IT? Why have the drawbacks that a T28 has if its armor means nothing?

The other team had 4 other tanks on the hill, but I'm not telling you about how I killed the other 3 because the focus is on the T28's armor vs gold rounds makes me an autoaim clicker. Gold rounds simply opened up an opportunity before where there was none. Understand that it's an enabler when you're in a shitty situation and isn't an "i-win"' button all the time, and while engaging "hard" tanks frontally is more often than not a terrible decision, for me it was the only option.

I also disagree with the fact that I should be punished because the rest of the team dies. The T28 was in a great spot (thanks to incompetence on my team), but gold rounds gave me a chance to carry the team when I'm faced with a tough situation. I guess I'm a pay2win derp and that's how I have a 58% winrate because I autoclick with gold rounds, I should lose honorably and known my place as a loser along with my terrible team. :awe:

Lets face it, there's situations where you can neither flank nor retreat, nor have the time and luxury to reposition to better spots. Without premium rounds loaded I would've lost the match, because apparently dumb teams "deserve to lose". I feel like bad players are punished enough by having 102 x 2 exp on their daily doubles, but maybe that's just me.

It's like you guys don't want to adjust your strategy to account for the state of the gold rounds right now. Do you feel like you're a worse player if you killed someone with gold rounds when "you're not supposed to" or something?

If you let them have the hill you should be punished for your incompetence;

Believe me, if the caern isn't a slow piece of shit they wouldn't have the hill.
 
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Ruptga

Lifer
Aug 3, 2006
10,246
207
106
In a loss, are you not content with knowing you played well? Is your good play somehow negated by your team losing? If not, why is being able to carry morons to victory so important? If so is that because of the lesser xp and silver, and if that's so are you playing to grind or are you playing to play?

Bad players are punished with low rewards, but frankly that's not enough. They ruin the game for the rest of us with their lemming trains, camping behind arty, shot blocking, retreat/cover blocking, and charging into the three invisible TDs they were just warned about. They definitely shouldn't be given any victories they didn't earn through skill and cooperation. They are bad and they should feel bad.
 

datalink7

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
16,765
6
81
Without premium rounds loaded I would've lost the match, because apparently dumb teams "deserve to lose".

That sounds about right. Dumb teams do deserve to lose.

It's like you guys don't want to adjust your strategy to account for the state of the gold rounds right now. Do you feel like you're a worse player if you killed someone with gold rounds when "you're not supposed to" or something?

The problem is, it isn't about adjusting strategy. You can't strategize when you don't know whether the opposition is slinging gold rounds or not.

If I'm in my T95, I'm faced with certain situations where I can go forward and it would be a good thing if they don't have gold, but a very bad idea if they do. But I have no special radar to know whether they have gold or not, so I can't really strategize.

Gold leads to less strategy, not more.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
In a loss, are you not content with knowing you played well? Is your good play somehow negated by your team losing? If not, why is being able to carry morons to victory so important? If so is that because of the lesser xp and silver, and if that's so are you playing to grind or are you playing to play?

Bad players are punished with low rewards, but frankly that's not enough. They ruin the game for the rest of us with their lemming trains, camping behind arty, shot blocking, retreat/cover blocking, and charging into the three invisible TDs they were just warned about. They definitely shouldn't be given any victories they didn't earn through skill and cooperation. They are bad and they should feel bad.

I play to win. I don't play to come in first on the loser team.

Statistics average out anyway. The bads will never statistically run into enough teams to carry them and they'll end up below the bell curve unless they start learning and winning and carrying. And XVM tells me this as well. Take my friend for example: I carry him to victory half the time, so he has a 52% winrate. But his eff and wn6 is not great.

That sounds about right. Dumb teams do deserve to lose.

If I'm in my T95, I'm faced with certain situations where I can go forward and it would be a good thing if they don't have gold, but a very bad idea if they do. But I have no special radar to know whether they have gold or not, so I can't really strategize.

Gold leads to less strategy, not more.

How does that make any sense? Gold rounds would make you think about the ramifications of charging in, and that you should think about alternatives and a "plan B", shouldn't it? You just make it sound like you want to charge straight down the alley on himmelsdorf and then lament if there are gold rounds on the other team. You make it sound like it's one or the other and you don't have any other options.

Your reaction is the perfect example of a lack of strategy, or the desire to have as few strategic choices as possible.
 
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datalink7

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
16,765
6
81
The crashes are weird for me. It is Tier VII and below that crash ALL the time. But I haven't crashed once with Tier VIII and above. So I've just been playing those lately.
 

Possessed Freak

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 1999
6,045
1
0
I guess I'm a pay2win derp and that's how I have a 58% winrate
Oooo can I compare epeens too? Care to guess on my winrate?

It's like you guys don't want to adjust your strategy to account for the state of the gold rounds right now. Do you feel like you're a worse player if you killed someone with gold rounds when "you're not supposed to" or something?
I feel the win is shallow if I have to bust out gold ammo to punch through the front of a tank. It means I could not use tactics and just relied on my wallet to bail me out.

THERE IS NO STRATEGY IN SHOOTING GOLD THROUGH THE FRONT OF A TANK.

Why do you think the non armored german TDs are doing so well? In game balance terms they get a great gun, good speed, good camo, and no armor to "balance it". But armor means little (as repeatedly said in the presence of gold ammo), so the tank becomes OP.
 

stag3

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2005
3,623
0
76
armor is completely useless now
i wish i never grinded for the foch155, the huge nerf it got instantly put it into the worst tier X category. getting 1 shot by arty now, can't show even a sliver of the side at all due to overmatch.

i'm an avg player with a shitty 51.83% win rate, after 25k games it's hard for me to raise it hahahah. 99% of my games were solo.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
19,550
6,624
136
I'm having a hard time getting to the right positions with my tortoise, either the battle is over before I get to see action, or my team is overwhelmed by the enemy and I get slaughtered by the enemy :/
 

datalink7

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
16,765
6
81
I play to win. I don't play to come in first on the loser team.

Statistics average out anyway. The bads will never statistically run into enough teams to carry them and they'll end up below the bell curve unless they start learning and winning and carrying. And XVM tells me this as well. Take my friend for example: I carry him to victory half the time, so he has a 52% winrate. But his eff and wn6 is not great.



How does that make any sense? Gold rounds would make you think about the ramifications of charging in, and that you should think about alternatives and a "plan B", shouldn't it? You just make it sound like you want to charge straight down the alley on himmelsdorf and then lament if there are gold rounds on the other team. You make it sound like it's one or the other and you don't have any other options.

Your reaction is the perfect example of a lack of strategy, or the desire to have as few strategic choices as possible.

Because your strategy for things that rely on armor becomes a roll of the dice. Instead of assessing the situation, it becomes a gamble.

For instance, take the T95 and Himmelsdorf. If you come to tank alley, and you know that there is a JP E100 and a 183 on the other end, you know that pushing forward will result in penetrating shots, even if they aren't running gold. So you can decide how to alternatively approach the situation.

If you come to tank alley, and see a M103 and a T57 heavy on the other end, you have no clue how to proceed. If they are running gold, they have 340 penetration and will easily decimate you. If they don't, their 258 penetration will struggle. With a 3 km/h back up speed, you can't adjust your strategy at all. Once you move out, they either kill you because you are too slow to retreat, or they aren't running gold and don't. That isn't strategy, that's rolling the dice. When there is such a huge difference between penetration values, you can't really plan anything.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
Oooo can I compare epeens too? Care to guess on my winrate?

You seem to be missing the point, or the sarcasm, or both. You're under the impression that gold rounds make derps into tank gods for some reason.

I feel the win is shallow if I have to bust out gold ammo to punch through the front of a tank. It means I could not use tactics and just relied on my wallet to bail me out.

THERE IS NO STRATEGY IN SHOOTING GOLD THROUGH THE FRONT OF A TANK.

Why do you think the non armored german TDs are doing so well? In game balance terms they get a great gun, good speed, good camo, and no armor to "balance it". But armor means little (as repeatedly said in the presence of gold ammo), so the tank becomes OP.

The new german TDs are doing so well because they're fast AND have good guns. And they have fucking turrets so they can play PAB unlike traditional TDs.

The biggest selling point of ANY tank is mobility and the ability to re-locate to important positions. It's why good players hate driving slow shits like the T95... they can't relocate well. Slow tanks are ALWAYS shoehorned into very specific areas and can't do anything to swing games if the flank they're not on falls. Or if nothing happens on their flank, they can't scoot over to where the action is.

Take away the speed/mobility on any tank and you lose a lot of utility on the tank and it will immediately become mediocre. armor has fuck all to do with it. In the future WG will "balance" the tanks by taking away their mobility like they did with the batchat and foch, I guarantee it. Personally, I dislike the direction of the paper boomers WG has decided to introduce as opposed to more traditional tanks, but I guess that's the direction tanks were headed in towards the late 50 and early 60s.

You obviously feel very strongly about how OP the gold rounds are, so I won't bother with any more arguments. Regardless of how you feel, they'll be in the game no matter how much you hate them. Who knows, maybe they'll be nerfed further in the future. They've already been through 2-3 rounds of nerfs anyway.

If you come to tank alley, and see a M103 and a T57 heavy on the other end, you have no clue how to proceed. If they are running gold, they have 340 penetration and will easily decimate you. If they don't, their 258 penetration will struggle. With a 3 km/h back up speed, you can't adjust your strategy at all. Once you move out, they either kill you because you are too slow to retreat, or they aren't running gold and don't. That isn't strategy, that's rolling the dice. When there is such a huge difference between penetration values, you can't really plan anything.

I'd argue if they're any good they'd just shoot your hatch and be done with it, even a t8 tank can pen it. I also wouldn't be pushing forward without support, so if you have support and you're able to push forward, I am assuming there will be return fire from our team which would suppress the other team as well (considering how the T95 is perfect for hulling down).

If you're alone, you shouldn't be pushing forward anyway.
 

Daverino

Platinum Member
Mar 15, 2007
2,004
1
0
I gotta disagree with that. I run tier 7-10 for the most part and most of the battles are profitable for me unless I slung a lot of gold that round. If you're doing your HP's worth in damage every round, it's impossible to NOT profit from even a bad round.

You'll be not-profitable if you derp, cherry pick or hide in the back sniping and not hitting anything.

Yeah, but do you have a premium account? If so then yes, it's going to be profitable. If you don't, you'll make a bit of money when you win and lose a bit of money when you lose, starting around tier 8. Can you make money? Sure, but maybe ten or twenty thousand silver at a time on a good win. Can you imagine how long it would take you to bank the six million needed for a tier 10 at that rate? You can do it, sure, but it's not practical.
 

Daverino

Platinum Member
Mar 15, 2007
2,004
1
0
Because your strategy for things that rely on armor becomes a roll of the dice. Instead of assessing the situation, it becomes a gamble.

For instance, take the T95 and Himmelsdorf. If you come to tank alley, and you know that there is a JP E100 and a 183 on the other end, you know that pushing forward will result in penetrating shots, even if they aren't running gold. So you can decide how to alternatively approach the situation.

If you come to tank alley, and see a M103 and a T57 heavy on the other end, you have no clue how to proceed. If they are running gold, they have 340 penetration and will easily decimate you. If they don't, their 258 penetration will struggle. With a 3 km/h back up speed, you can't adjust your strategy at all. Once you move out, they either kill you because you are too slow to retreat, or they aren't running gold and don't. That isn't strategy, that's rolling the dice. When there is such a huge difference between penetration values, you can't really plan anything.

I think this all underscores what a horrible TD the T95 is, in its current state. Take away ALL the frontal weak spots and buff the T95's armor to 500m everywhere in the front and you know what? It would STILL be horrible. It is too slow to influence a battle except in particular circumstances. The number one attribute of a good tank is: "Can it influence every battle it enters, regardless of the map or the tier."
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
Yeah, but do you have a premium account? If so then yes, it's going to be profitable. If you don't, you'll make a bit of money when you win and lose a bit of money when you lose, starting around tier 8. Can you make money? Sure, but maybe ten or twenty thousand silver at a time on a good win. Can you imagine how long it would take you to bank the six million needed for a tier 10 at that rate? You can do it, sure, but it's not practical.

Well, profit is profit. I don't disagree that it would take about a billion years longer than if you had a premium, but I ran most of my tier 7-10s without premium and usually end up with about +200k at the end of a session.
 
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