Mueller indicts Russians

[imported_tajmahal]

What would that evidence be?
Don’t make an enormous list one or two possible things.

Conviction in court? That's pretty much it for me.

 

[skull]

Conviction in court? That's pretty much it for me.

I've never known you to give dems the same benefit of the doubt.

 

[interchange]

Evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

Let's go to fantasy land and say we proved that Trump indeed had nothing to do with Russia's actions in our election whatsoever.

What do you think should be done about his refusal to acknowledge and act against this hostile action, and in particular his blatant refusal to implement sanctions passed by Congress?

 

[imported_tajmahal]

I've never known you to give dems the same benefit of the doubt.

I give you the benefit of my doubt all the time.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Let's go to fantasy land and say we proved that Trump indeed had nothing to do with Russia's actions in our election whatsoever.

What do you think should be done about his refusal to acknowledge and act against this hostile action, and in particular his blatant refusal to implement sanctions passed by Congress?

Have you ever in your pitiful existence in this country applied those standards to any other President or to any other person? Ever?

 

[interchange]

Conviction in court? That's pretty much it for me.

Unfortunately the policy has been since Nixon to not indict a sitting President but rather present evidence of concluded investigations to Congress for them to decide on impeachment proceedings.

I have no doubt whatsoever that if this were in the hands of the court he would be indicted for and found guilty of obstruction of justice.

 

[interchange]

Have you ever in your pitiful existence in this country applied those standards to any other President or to any other person? Ever?

What the hell are you even asking me? I can't even make sense of it.

 

[skull]

I give you the benefit of my doubt all the time.

We said we wouldn't talk about that on here.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Conviction in court? That's pretty much it for me.

If you were on the jury what evidence would you consider beyond a reasonable doubt. Let’s leave the legal definitions off the table specific things like an email sent from Trumps mobile device when Trump was on camera and it said...
Or
Many people observed Trump doing...

 

[rise]

1. The indictments are nothing more than window dressing. Little to no chance of prosecution, the only thing it does is prevent them from traveling here. Of course, with the crack federal law enforcement we have in this country, they could post their itineraries all over social media and wear "Here I am" signs and they'd still miss it.
2. We have been meddling in other countries elections since long before most of us were born. IMO, screaming about this looks really hypocritical.
3. If people get indicted for collusion it takes this to a completely new level.
4. The President doesn't have any excuse to not impose sanctions.

Have you read the indictments?

 

[Younigue]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...anized-anti-trump-rallies-after-election.html

"The Russians indicted for meddling in the 2016 presidential contest were also behind anti-Trump rallies after the election, prosecutors said Friday, revealing another aspect of Russia’s alleged interference as it worked to sow discord in the United States.

“After the election, the defendants allegedly staged rallies to support the president-elect while simultaneously staging rallies to protest his election,” Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein said in a Friday press conference."

It seems if you're one of those "Trump is not my President ass fvcking holes you are doing exactly what your Russian masters wanted you to do. In fact everyone on one side or the other seems to done what they pushed for. At least I never protested against a sitting President and supported our political enemies.

Holy shit you're so fu*king stupid. Stupid stupid stupid! Oh you're also completely useless to the human race. The idiot race (which is now a thing because of the Russian sponsored ushering in of the Trump Era) is absolutely benefiting from your existence among them. I suppose that's a proud moment for you. Shut the fu*k up Shit Stain.

 

[realibrad]

I don't know what you mean when you use the word "proof." The indictment says that these Russian organizations and individuals did various illegal things to help elect Trump.

It says that Russians did things to help promote Trump. It does not say that Trump was involved or not involved. They may very well plan on doing that, and this could be a way to get more information so they can.

So if Clinton had colluded with the Russians, that would mean that an entirely different set of Russian individuals and organizations were working to help Clinton, at cross purposes with the activities of the indicted group.

Not necessarily. If the goal was to disrupt things then they could have been the same group. We have no reason to believe that it actually happened though, because again there is nothing in terms of evidence.

Doesn't seem likely, does it?

No. No evidence so why would I think that?

I think when you say "proof" you don't mean "evidence" but something like absolute proof.

Well there is neither evidence or proof right? I don't think there is which is why I keep saying I lack belief. I see nothing even hinting at this point that she did.

Of course it's still theoretically possible that Clinton worked with the Russians in some way, but what's in the indictment makes it substantially unlikely and hence it is relevant evidence to strongly suggest that she did no such thing.

Why would the indictment make it substantially more or less likely? Again, the indictment also clearly says that pro and anti Trump rallies were run. The reason was to get people angry. It does not say anything about Hillary other than she was a target of things against her. That logically means that they still could have, but it also means that it may not even be on their radar because they feel there is nothing to investigate.

So I disagree that the indictment has anything to do with Hillary working with Russians.

When someone said that this indictment put the notion of Clinton colluding with the Russians to rest, he was essentially correct.

No he was not. The indictment has nothing to do with Hillary being investigated in any way. It just said that anti-Hillary things were done to help Trump. If you believe there is a part that exonerates Hillary for something that so far does not look like it was investigated because there is nothing to investigate then please show me.

Then you basically came in and said, no, it's still theoretically possible she could have. While that is technically true, from what we now know, the chances of it are extremely remote. That's why people call you pedantic.

What do you mean from what we know? We know nothing because there is nothing. Nothing saying she did, nothing saying she did not. To me it seemed like he was saying that because the indictment said Russians were trying to hurt Hillary and Help trump that it must mean Hillary did not work with Russians. That is simply illogical, and that is all I have been saying. I did not say its likely, just that the indictment simply does not say anything about Hillary working with Russians. That is why I said this pretty quickly when he was trying to get clarification.

I just meant that it does not logically follow that this indictment disproves anything about Hillary.

You can find that comment all the way back on page 3, post #53. I get that people find that trivial, but you like others seem to think that because I comment on what they see as trivial that I must be doing it for some diabolical reason. I literally just meant that the indictment does not disprove or prove anything to his question.

Look, I get that others do that here. I think the problem you and others have is that you see some people here try to use technicalities as a way to deflect, so when you see something that looks overly simple, obvious, and mainly technical you think something more is going on. All I can do is tell you that I am being as upfront as possible.

Now, this has gone on and on over something very simple. I think I have said all that can be said on this. There may be more later in terms of the indictment. If someone wants to accuse Hillary then they need to provide evidence. This indictment does not do anything other than say that Trump was supported, Hillary was attacked.

 

[Younigue]

You do what your Russian masters tell you to do and protest a sitting President. Enjoy your role comrade.

Fucking idiot! Your Orange God loves Puti.

 

[cytg111]

Evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

Obstruction of justice, firing Comey? He confessed it right there on prime time. I guess that means that your red line is a markup of how congress is mixed, cause a democratic majority would have impeached right then and there

 

[IJTSSG]

Have you read the indictments?

yep

 

[Younigue]

I've known that Russia (The Soviet Union) is an active and hostile enemy of the USA my entire life. I have never doubted it for a second. It isn't news to me and why the fvck is it news to you?

The "News" is that they're in for Trump you total useless numbnut! You're in for Trump. You're a fu*king traitor to your very core.

 

[cytg111]

The comparison is funny too.. Here is Rosenstein laying out the cards of whats what, a brilliant move that will make removal of him look like obstruction as well. That is some smart political moves.
In the other corner we have Trump who does politics with screaming shouting firing and tweeting.. Hahahaha what a s show.

 

[jackstar7]

yep

Is English your first language?

 

[sportage]

Again, we need to stand back and understand how this works.
This is only phase ONE from Mueller. Phase ONE.
Naturally, only a Donald Trump would take this as vindication.
Just as with a murder, if the cops find the knife but have yet to test for fingerprints, naturally any suspect is going to claim NO FINGERPRINTS? THIS VINDICATES ME FROM THE CRIME.

Again, one must understand how a true criminal investigation and competent investigator works.....
FIRST, you prove their was a crime.
THEN, you expose the guilty.
Linking part ONE with part TWO. Or vice versa as it were.

Understand, Mueller has now completed proving the crime.
What comes next, proving and I mean ""PROVING"" the connection between the crime and those involved.
Proving the Trump organization was in fact involved with the crime.

So, Trump thinks this vindicates him?
He has NO IDEA what is about to come.
If Donald was not the idiot he is, Donald would realize what Mueller released today is extremely bad news for Mr. President Donald Trump.
And now that the crime has been proven without any doubts, what comes next is the ugly part.
The part TWO where Mueller fully connects the dots.
The meetings between Soviet operatives and Donald Trump, the meetings between the Trump officials past and present, the meetings between Trump family members.

This is easy math.... A child could see this.
When you first have the crime exposed, then second the names of those involved, the summation of the two proves the act to conspire.
Again, what Mueller released today was only the first half of that equation.
And god bless this man Mueller, he sure is damned tight lipped.
I wonder what Mueller thinks knowing, realizing what this will mean to America democracy when the dots are fully connected?
And, ""PROVEN"" without a shadow of a doubt?
I would think Mueller, knowing what is about to take place believes that American democracy can withstand anything. Survive anything including the treasonous criminality with a president conspiring directly with a communist country to attack an American institution. Our free election system.

What might not be so obvious to most, and explains why this Mueller investigation has taken so long, is that Mueller IS A PROFESSIONAL. And quite the experienced investigator.
Mueller is no lightfoot, this is for sure.
And the ONLY reason Mueller would first release such an inclusive summary of investigation part-ONE is his knowing that when he Mueller releases part-TWO the shit will hit the fan.
If the shit is to hit the fan, better a handful at a time rather than the entire bucket all at once.

Mueller is no incompetent.
Mueller is a highly professional and highly SKILLED at law enforcement.
Mueller knows exactly how to do his job, exactly how to go about it, and what needs to be done.
And not only is Mueller the most skilled in his work, like I say he is tight lipped as any true professional would be.
Mueller makes sure all the I's are dotted and the T's crossed before releasing anything.

Then we have Donald Trump.
Caught with his hand in the cookie jar, yet too ignorant to realize everyone is watching.
But that is about to change. Change when the second shoe drops with this Mueller investigation.
And the $25,000 question is, how will Donald Trump react when his sons and his own son in-law are indicted? Put on trial with facing prison for treason?
How will Donald react when his top staff both past and present are indicted for treason?
Placed on trial with facing prison?
And then..... will the republican controlled US Congress do their duty and impeach Donald Trump once Donald Trump is also indicted for treason?

Trump reminds me an awful lot like Richard Nixon.
However, Nixon was at least smart enough to know when the jig was up.
When the heat was too much to bear, Nixon began tossing out those closest to him one by one.
Will Donald Trump begin tossing out his own and those close to him when the heat becomes too much to bear?
Probably. I wouldn't be surprised.
One thing to consider, Donald Trump including all the Trump's have one option that Richard Nixon never had. To simply flee the Whitehouse, grab his billions, jump on his private jet, and fly away.
And anyone want to guess which famous communist dictator of which major communist country would be more than willing to give then criminally indicted private citizen on the run Donald Trump full political asylum?
Gee, lets see..... Who just might that be.......?
Добро пожаловать друг от вашего нового дома

 

[rise]

yep

And you think your first point is valid? Damn, considering this only addresses the social media part of the investigation I'm pretty impressed with the detail and thoroughness.

 

[Moonbeam]

If I did not understand that, would I have asked my original question? And no, it does not hurt my ego. I could be a person that believes my judgement over others. I believe I disagree because of tests that I have run and continue to run on myself.

I tend to over explain things anyway, and try to respond in good faith. I truly do not know why you would believe I use innuendo. I speak as explicitly as I am able to do. Perhaps I am not at the level people want, but my ignorance should not be confused with a conspiracy.

I am trying to catch up in this thread and am at this post of yours to which I feel a need to stop reading and respond to. I think you are a good and well intentioned person. I think you get screwed miss seeing how what some call pedantic inclinations, what I would call a fixation on some particular tree makes you miss the forest or the larger context in which you speak. I understand your point but your need to make sure everybody gets it kind of makes everything get off more important points. Not everybody is patient and willing to deal with that. Some of us are better at it, I think. I also know that having been described in a way that may be hard for you to actually see or agree with has caused you to test and seek deeper understanding. Personally, I don't really like people making fun of you. Hope this helps.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Such a nothing burger borscht

Even the mighty Hardy's monster burger stands in awe over this one.

 

[cytg111]

When is Rosenstein getting the boot .. we should have a poll on it. Trump is out of options, the last option just got worse but he has to take it, Rod is going down, question is when.

 

[rise]

The comparison is funny too.. Here is Rosenstein laying out the cards of whats what, a brilliant move that will make removal of him look like obstruction as well. That is some smart political moves.
In the other corner we have Trump who does politics with screaming shouting firing and tweeting.. Hahahaha what a s show.

He's a warrior haha. Trump is so blindly defending yesterday he sees not the Rothstein wrath approaching.

 

[nickqt]

The thread and my comment were about the indictment released today. Please try to stay on topic.

You asked "Weren't we all waiting for the Trump connection?"

And I asked, in return, if the investigation was over.

Please do try to keep up, champ.