Mueller indicts Russians

[UNCjigga]

Guys, between the "200" Russian mercenaries killed in Syria and the indictments today (nevermind all the sanctions)...anyone feel like shit is getting real between the US and Russia? We've got our proxy war (Syria), we have their illegal transfers of oil to North Korea, and I'm sure there is other strategic posturing I'm not aware of (rumors that they were double dealing with Assad AND ISIS in Syria wrt oil contracts.)

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[soundforbjt]

See, and you like to pretend Republicans are the only ones living in denial. Yet there you go again.

Why does it matter who paid Fusion GPS?

 

[realibrad]

I'll believe that when I read it in an indictment.

I just meant that it does not logically follow that this indictment disproves anything about Hillary.

 

[Chromagnus]

Indictments saying definitively that Russians tried to interfere with our elections. Response from some people here....

but Hillary!

 

[ivwshane]

See, and you like to pretend Republicans are the only ones living in denial. Yet there you go again.

I really hope you aren't being serious right now because it appears you don't understand what the words, collude and alter mean. Fusion GPS didn't collude with Russia, they used intelligence gathered from Russian sources in the same way the FBI used associates of the mafia to gain Intel on the mafia. Fusion GPS did not seek to alter the 2016 election, they provided a service to give opposition research to a client, what that client did with that information is irrelevant.

Its really sad that this has to be explained to you.

 

[UNCjigga]

I just meant that it does not logically follow that this indictment disproves anything about Hillary.

I suppose, but it does specifically state that these 13 Defendants took actions to support the candidacy of Donald Trump and to support the candidacy of Jill Stein. I suppose in theory there could have been a COMPLETELY SEPARATE group of Russians (a "Red Team" if you will) working to support the candidacy of Hillary Clinton, but so far there is no evidence of that.

 

[crashtech]

How will the prosecution of Russian nationals be pursued?

 

[realibrad]

I suppose, but it does specifically state that these 13 Defendants took actions to support the candidacy of Donald Trump and to support the candidacy of Jill Stein. I suppose in theory there could have been a COMPLETELY SEPARATE group of Russians (a "Red Team" if you will) working to support the candidacy of Hillary Clinton, but so far there is no evidence of that.

Does not even need to be a different group. Anyone dumb enough to work with the Russians is going to get dirty, and that dirt would be possible blackmail. Russia has every incentive to work with both, even if there is someone they would prefer.

 

[Jhhnn]

Americans DID collude with Russians to alter the 2016 election, only it was with Fusion GPS and the Steele dossier.
Hillary can't take back her payment to them. Or Sidney Blumenthal's direct involvement with Mr. Steele.

Which is obviously *not* the Russian govt.

 

[Jaskalas]

Why does it matter who paid Fusion GPS?

To use Russian propaganda to alter the 2016 Presidential election. Hah, you pretty much asked why collusion with Russia would matter.

Which is obviously *not* the Russian govt.

Steele sourced from the Russian government.

 

[soundforbjt]

[Q

How will the prosecution of Russian nationals be pursued?

They can’t come here and if they go to any country that we have extradition cooperation with, they’re screwed. Mess with any outside bank accts, there’s ways.

 

[Jhhnn]

How will the prosecution of Russian nationals be pursued?

Through Interpol, I suspect. It'll put a crimp in their travel agendas.

 

[UNCjigga]

Does not even need to be a different group. Anyone dumb enough to work with the Russians is going to get dirty, and that dirt would be possible blackmail. Russia has every incentive to work with both, even if there is someone they would prefer.

Ok, but there is nothing in these indictments to suggest that any Russians were meddling in the 2016 election to benefit Hillary. You're alluding to completely different "dirt" (Uranium One?) that has nothing to do with 2016 election meddling. This was a huge intelligence effort leading to the indictments, and the intelligence dates back at least to 2014.

 

[soundforbjt]

To use Russian propaganda to alter the 2016 Presidential election. Hah, you pretty much asked why collusion with Russia would matter.



Steele sourced from the Russian government.

How is it propaganda if some of it is confirmed as true?

 

[vi edit]

How will the prosecution of Russian nationals be pursued?

They won't. This is informational and symbolic in nature. It's to put Trump on his heels and spin the narrative to a "YES RUSSIA MEDDLED" message.

 

[ivwshane]

Does not even need to be a different group. Anyone dumb enough to work with the Russians is going to get dirty, and that dirt would be possible blackmail. Russia has every incentive to work with both, even if there is someone they would prefer.

Its entirely possible the Russians were trying to work Hillary and in fact it was reported that attempts to entrap her failed.

This operation has been going on since 2013 and was done with people and groups who were physically here.

As appalling as that is, it's even more appalling that we have a president who is obviously compromised and instead of taking action to ensure their influence is minimized he's not doing shit! Let that sink in, we have a foreign adversary attacking our democracy and we have a president not even acknowledging it let alone doing anything to stop it. If that's not treason then I don't know what is.

 

[crashtech]

Through Interpol, I suspect. It'll put a crimp in their travel agendas.

I am wondering if these indictments are, in effect, symbolic, since these individuals will no doubt be offered the protection of the Russian government.

Edit: what vi edit said...

 

[realibrad]

Ok, but there is nothing in these indictments to suggest that any Russians were meddling in the 2016 election to benefit Hillary. You're alluding to completely different "dirt" (Uranium One?) that has nothing to do with 2016 election meddling. This was a huge intelligence effort leading to the indictments, and the intelligence dates back at least to 2014.

I'm not referring to anything. I am saying that we cannot say yes or no in terms of Hillary because this has no ability to mean anything about her. So when you ask if we can stop now, it seems weird because it means nothing in that regard.

 

[ivwshane]

To use Russian propaganda to alter the 2016 Presidential election. Hah, you pretty much asked why collusion with Russia would matter.



Steele sourced from the Russian government.

Um... You do understand the difference between, "sources from within the Russian government", and "sourced from the Russian government"?

 

[Jhhnn]

Steele sourced from the Russian government.

From people in the govt who weren't supposed to do that. It can't be shown to be an effort by the Russian govt. Pretend that it was if you want.

 

[feralkid]

Um... You do understand the difference between, "sources from within the Russian government", and "sourced from the Russian government"?

I wouldn't bother trying to explain it to him.

 

[realibrad]

Its entirely possible the Russians were trying to work Hillary and in fact it was reported that attempts to entrap her failed.

This operation has been going on since 2013 and was done with people and groups who were physically here.

As appalling as that is, it's even more appalling that we have a president who is obviously compromised and instead of taking action to ensure their influence is minimized he's not doing shit! Let that sink in, we have a foreign adversary attacking our democracy and we have a president not even acknowledging it let alone doing anything to stop it. If that's not treason then I don't know what is.

He was just saying that now that this is happening, could we stop saying Hillary could have too. So I not really in relation to this because this means nothing to that. That was all.

 

[JSt0rm]

i bet russia gave kim the missiles too

 

[Puffnstuff]

Here's Rosenstein's presentation.

 

[UNCjigga]

[Q

They can’t come here and if they go to any country that we have extradition cooperation with, they’re screwed. Mess with any outside bank accts, there’s ways.

There's also a chance that some of these individuals may be "disappeared" if they stay in Russia. There's enough in the indictment to suggest Mueller/FBI had a source in St. Petersburg very close to the operation.