Originally posted by: JuanTabonia
I'm a classic Mustang fan. I really wish the new Mustang had the "step" up behind the door like in the OP's picture link. The new Charger has that but that car is fugly.
I just watched "Rides: Biggest Spenders" and the most expensive muscle car is a restored Hemi 'Cuda Convertible, because they only made 260 (i think). Pricetag: $3,000,000.
The most expensive car ever is The Silver Ghost (the original) by RR. It has not even been restored and is in excellent running condition w/ 1/2 million miles on it. $40 MILLION!!
I suggest you grasp the term musclecar. WRX is not a musclecar. Unless it was made before 1980, has a V8, RWD and a midsize chassis. An exception can be made for the Buick Grand National and GNX.Originally posted by: Vic
Uh... the WRX-STi IS a modern muscle car. Exactly by your own definitions. I suggest you take his advice and try driving one.Originally posted by: Iron Woode
How about reading my statement again?Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Go drive a WRX-STi and try making that statement again.Originally posted by: Iron Woode
For old musclecars, modern refinement is over-rated.Originally posted by: Insane3D
I love my fox bodied Mustang. Easy to work on, reliable, lots of power, and tons of options for upgrades.
Mine is not a classic like the cars listed, but it's still considered a "muscle car" I would think. Sure it's not as refined as some of the newer cars, but that's the beauty of it.
Those of us that like musclecars, today's new refined cars are boring and lack style and mystique. Musclecars are raw, all steel, don't give a damn about fuel economy - make as much power as possible vehicles.
Got it now?
No, I suggest you "grasp" the term and understand what a muscle car really is/was, and not just some nostalgic bullsh!t.Originally posted by: Iron Woode
I suggest you grasp the term musclecar. WRX is not a musclecar. Unless it was made before 1980, has a V8, RWD and a midsize chassis. An exception can be made for the Buick Grand National and GNX.
i totally agree with you and your Mustang accessment.Originally posted by: walt
Does anyone here like muscle cars? I think the old Mustangs look cool, also the new 2005 retro one.
1969 Mustang Super Boss 429
Firebird
Dodge Charger R/T
Originally posted by: Vic
No, I suggest you "grasp" the term and understand what a muscle car really is/was, and not just some nostalgic bullsh!t.Originally posted by: Iron Woode
I suggest you grasp the term musclecar. WRX is not a musclecar. Unless it was made before 1980, has a V8, RWD and a midsize chassis. An exception can be made for the Buick Grand National and GNX.
A muscle car is/was an otherwise run-of-the-mill economy car modified for true performance straight from the factory.
Manufacturers still build muscle cars today, just not American manufacturers. Otherwise, "rice" is the modern muscle, and we are right now today in the midst of a performance car revolution that makes the "good old" muscle car craze of late 60s/early 70s look like a little girls tea party.
Originally posted by: Vic
No, I suggest you "grasp" the term and understand what a muscle car really is/was, and not just some nostalgic bullsh!t.Originally posted by: Iron Woode
I suggest you grasp the term musclecar. WRX is not a musclecar. Unless it was made before 1980, has a V8, RWD and a midsize chassis. An exception can be made for the Buick Grand National and GNX.
A muscle car is/was an otherwise run-of-the-mill economy car modified for true performance straight from the factory.
Manufacturers still build muscle cars today, just not American manufacturers. Otherwise, "rice" is the modern muscle, and we are right now today in the midst of a performance car revolution that makes the "good old" muscle car craze of late 60s/early 70s look like a little girls tea party.
By '71 they were dead. Emissions and insurance killed them. And all hope was lost once the 'Vette had those horrible plastic bumpers tacked onto the gorgeous Mako Shark design.Originally posted by: Rockhound
Nothing like the cars of the '60's and early to mid '70's. Tons of styling, uniqueness.
The STi comes with 300 hp from the factory, pal. And in stock form is faster down the 1/4 than a stock GTO of any model year. I mention the GTO in this reference because it, the Chevelle LS6, the Mustang Super Boss 429, and the Charger R/T were all the finest examples of factory-modified performance cars from the 60s. And the STi is as fast from the factory as any of those ever were from the factory.Originally posted by: Black88GTA
THe WRX-STI makes 300-400 HP RWD V8 cars look like a "little girls tea party". OMG. :roll::roll:
You obviously have NO concept of what a Muscle Car is all about.
The WRX-STI, while a sweet car, is NOT in ANY WAY, SHAPE, or FORM a "muscle car". You will find few on this board (save for maybe Jules Maximus) who will agree with you. I'm sorry, but this is one argument that you WILL lose.
Rice has nothing to do with muscle, its all flash, style with no substance.Originally posted by: Vic
No, I suggest you "grasp" the term and understand what a muscle car really is/was, and not just some nostalgic bullsh!t.Originally posted by: Iron Woode
I suggest you grasp the term musclecar. WRX is not a musclecar. Unless it was made before 1980, has a V8, RWD and a midsize chassis. An exception can be made for the Buick Grand National and GNX.
A muscle car is/was an otherwise run-of-the-mill economy car modified for true performance straight from the factory.
Manufacturers still build muscle cars today, just not American manufacturers. Otherwise, "rice" is the modern muscle, and we are right now today in the midst of a performance car revolution that makes the "good old" muscle car craze of late 60s/early 70s look like a little girls tea party.
You're not comparing apples to apples. The STi is the modern equivalent of a Chevelle LS6 or Mustang Super Boss 429. In their time, those cars were also heavily modified from the factory (making further modification more difficult than just bolting on a new set of headers) and were moderately expensive and relatively limited production, just like an STi (or other cars in its class today).Originally posted by: Insane3D
How much does a STI cost though? How easy is it to do general maintanence to? I'm also guessing you can't just bolt on a set of heads or a intake like you can with a good old american push-rod V8.
Also, while I'm sure there are performance mods that can be done to a STI, the sheer amount of upgrade choices and options can't compare to what's out there for most older domestic V8 cars.
When I was growing up, the muscle car was also something that was cheap, fast, and easily upgraded. Maybe the definition changes over time, but that's what I consider a muscle car.
Just an alternate point of view.
BTW- I'm not knocking the STI, it's a nice car.
Right... like 95% of the actual muscle cars on the street back in the day weren't just a used mid-60s Chevelle with a 195hp 283ci V8 (or equivalent) with a loud exhaust and a jacked-up ass end. Yeah, that's all performance there... :roll:Originally posted by: Iron Woode
Rice has nothing to do with muscle, its all flash, style with no substance.
A musclecar has always been and always will be a midsize 2 door chassis, V8, RWD with performance enhancing mods from the factory, however, they are not just an engine swap and suddenly become musclecars. A lot of other mods went into them. They were made from 1963-64 till 1973 by most standards. The exceptions would be the GN and GNX, possibly the Monte Carlo SS.
You don't like the definition? Too bad.
As for the tea party: bring on riceboy.
The real performance revolution now is comming from v8 powered RWD cars.
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Black88GTA
THe WRX-STI makes 300-400 HP RWD V8 cars look like a "little girls tea party". OMG. :roll::roll:
You obviously have NO concept of what a Muscle Car is all about.
The WRX-STI, while a sweet car, is NOT in ANY WAY, SHAPE, or FORM a "muscle car". You will find few on this board (save for maybe Jules Maximus) who will agree with you. I'm sorry, but this is one argument that you WILL lose.
I'm well aware, thanks.The STi comes with 300 hp from the factory, pal.
I don't feel like looking up stats right now, as I don't know 1/4 mile times of either car. But, you're probably right.And in stock form is faster down the 1/4 than a stock GTO of any model year.
Agreed on all points. Although I will submit the ZL1 COPO Camaro to be added to that list.I mention the GTO in this reference because it, the Chevelle LS6, the Mustang Super Boss 429, and the Charger R/T were all the finest examples of factory-modified performance cars from the 60s. And the STi is as fast from the factory as any of those ever were from the factory.
I wasn't alive in the 60s, nor was I even alive in the '70s. Point being, I have no idea of how "big" the muscle car era was compared to today, save for what I hear from others.But I wasn't comparing car to car, but era to era. What I clearly meant is that the modern performance car era is (and will continue to be for some time to come) much bigger than the muscle car era was.
However, this thread is not about "modern performance cars". A "muscle car" in the commonly accepted definition is A). RWD B). V8 powered C). 2 doors D). (although this is debatable) built sometime between 1960 and 1974. Your WRX meets 1 of the 4.
A "modern performance car" is a completely different animal than a "muscle car," although the two can share similar attributes.
Your nostalgia is blinding you, I think.
Um, I was born in 1980. I'm 24. No "nostalgia" here, pal. When I was born, in fact, was pretty close to an all-time low as far as RWD V8 cars - or performance oriented cars in general, for that matter - are concerned.
Your "Import Tuner" fanboyism is blinding you, I think.
Originally posted by: Iron Woode
How about reading my statement again?Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Iron Woode
For old musclecars, modern refinement is over-rated.Originally posted by: Insane3D
I love my fox bodied Mustang. Easy to work on, reliable, lots of power, and tons of options for upgrades.
Mine is not a classic like the cars listed, but it's still considered a "muscle car" I would think. Sure it's not as refined as some of the newer cars, but that's the beauty of it.
Go drive a WRX-STi and try making that statement again.
Those of us that like musclecars, today's new refined cars are boring and lack style and mystique. Musclecars are raw, all steel, don't give a damn about fuel economy - make as much power as possible vehicles.
Got it now?
Originally posted by: Vic
The STi comes with 300 hp from the factory, pal. And in stock form is faster down the 1/4 than a stock GTO of any model year. I mention the GTO in this reference because it, the Chevelle LS6, the Mustang Super Boss 429, and the Charger R/T were all the finest examples of factory-modified performance cars from the 60s. And the STi is as fast from the factory as any of those ever were from the factory.Originally posted by: Black88GTA
THe WRX-STI makes 300-400 HP RWD V8 cars look like a "little girls tea party". OMG. :roll::roll:
You obviously have NO concept of what a Muscle Car is all about.
The WRX-STI, while a sweet car, is NOT in ANY WAY, SHAPE, or FORM a "muscle car". You will find few on this board (save for maybe Jules Maximus) who will agree with you. I'm sorry, but this is one argument that you WILL lose.
But I wasn't comparing car to car, but era to era. What I clearly meant is that the modern performance car era is (and will continue to be for some time to come) much bigger than the muscle car era was.
Your nostalgia is blinding you, I think.
You lack of facts is blinding you.Originally posted by: Vic
The STi comes with 300 hp from the factory, pal. And in stock form is faster down the 1/4 than a stock GTO of any model year. I mention the GTO in this reference because it, the Chevelle LS6, the Mustang Super Boss 429, and the Charger R/T were all the finest examples of factory-modified performance cars from the 60s. And the STi is as fast from the factory as any of those ever were from the factory.Originally posted by: Black88GTA
THe WRX-STI makes 300-400 HP RWD V8 cars look like a "little girls tea party". OMG. :roll::roll:
You obviously have NO concept of what a Muscle Car is all about.
The WRX-STI, while a sweet car, is NOT in ANY WAY, SHAPE, or FORM a "muscle car". You will find few on this board (save for maybe Jules Maximus) who will agree with you. I'm sorry, but this is one argument that you WILL lose.
But I wasn't comparing car to car, but era to era. What I clearly meant is that the modern performance car era is (and will continue to be for some time to come) much bigger than the muscle car era was.
Your nostalgia is blinding you, I think.