muscle cars

[WT]

Imagine, if you will ... cars today, given 35+ years of technology and tuning, that were able to perform BETTER ...*gasp*... than cars built in the late 60's and early 70's. That is known in automotive circles as .. progress !!!! Do we care that cars have progressed to the point they now are ? Only when we are hauling the family around, or going to the beach and can stuff a shytload of gear in the back, or on a sweltering day with the A/C cranked and the car running perfectly cool in traffic.

Point is, technology marches on, and the WRX might have refinement and safety in spades over any old muscle car, but this thread was not started to honor practicality. It's the true V8 with tons of torque, bias ply tires that could fall apart after one huge burnout and no modern amenities installed to speak of (radio delete option -*check*)

I for one am sick of hearing a hopped up Civic sounding like a sheep in heat tearing down the street nearby.

My first car was a mild 289 2 barrel '65 Mustang. My Dad had a 64 1/2 Mustang convertible and a '70 Boss 302 (there was no Super Boss, it was just a Boss 302 or 429). My favorite car of all time is a '65 AC Cobra - AC Ace roadster body manufactured in England and bought up by Ford for Carroll Shelby to go to work on. Shelby took the Ace body and modified it enough to accept Fords top motor at the time, the 427 side oiler, also known as the cammer (originally, the Cobra had a 260 and later a 289 motor as well). With 500+ HPs on tap, it was made specifically to win the FIA World Championship of GT cars back from Ferrari, who had won the cup the previous 10 years. The last two cars off the line came with dual Paxton superchargers making 800+ HP, one going to Carroll Shelby himself and the other to Bill Cosby.

Edit: added link for pics of the Cobra here

 

[Stumps]

I agree, there is nothing like a thumping great V8, I'm currently in the process of rebuilding my 1978 Ford XC Falcon 500 sedan, I will begiving the gold ole 4.1litre six the toss for a 351 4v Cleveland V8(which was optional so no real hassles in fitting) built to Phase 4 falcon specs, and a FMX auto, hopefully I will be able to match the grunt of my dads 1979 Ford XD Fairmont with it 302 Cleveland V8 which is rated at 380hp(not including the 150hp NOS) at the wheels. hopefully the bigger cubes will make up for the extra weight...about 200kg's extra

 

[Stumps]

here is a rare peice of Australian motoring history the 1969 GMH GTRX, I believe there is only 3 in exsistance, very very rare prototype that would have made an awesome aussie muscle car, powered by a modified 186cu inline six cylinder fitted with 3 stromberg side draught carbs and a m21 4spd, it is very light and very nimble, had it been released it could have been a match for the 5.8litre (351cu) GTHO Phase 1 falcon.
http://www.carshine.com.au/Special%20Vehicles.htm

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: WT
Imagine, if you will ... cars today, given 35+ years of technology and tuning, that were able to perform BETTER ...*gasp*... than cars built in the late 60's and early 70's. That is known in automotive circles as .. progress !!!! Do we care that cars have progressed to the point they now are ? Only when we are hauling the family around, or going to the beach and can stuff a shytload of gear in the back, or on a sweltering day with the A/C cranked and the car running perfectly cool in traffic.

Point is, technology marches on, and the WRX might have refinement and safety in spades over any old muscle car, but this thread was not started to honor practicality. It's the true V8 with tons of torque, bias ply tires that could fall apart after one huge burnout and no modern amenities installed to speak of (radio delete option -*check*)

I for one am sick of hearing a hopped up Civic sounding like a sheep in heat tearing down the street nearby.

My first car was a mild 289 2 barrel '65 Mustang. My Dad had a 64 1/2 Mustang convertible and a '70 Boss 302 (there was no Super Boss, it was just a Boss 302 or 429). My favorite car of all time is a '65 AC Cobra - AC Ace roadster body manufactured in England and bought up by Ford for Carroll Shelby to go to work on. Shelby took the Ace body and modified it enough to accept Fords top motor at the time, the 427 side oiler, also known as the cammer (originally, the Cobra had a 260 and later a 289 motor as well). With 500+ HPs on tap, it was made specifically to win the FIA World Championship of GT cars back from Ferrari, who had won the cup the previous 10 years. The last two cars off the line came with dual Paxton superchargers making 800+ HP, one going to Carroll Shelby himself and the other to Bill Cosby.

Edit: added link for pics of the Cobra here

Quoted for stupidity. :roll:

 

[imported_walt]

When it comes to muscle American Motors did alot with their three specials in 1969-71.

69' SC 360 Rambler (Scrambler)

70' Rebel "Machine"

71' SC 360 Hornet

Lean, sharp cars.

 

[Stumps]

Another magnificant aussie muscle car was the Valiant(Chrysler)Charger, these rare six cylinder monsters were infact faster than the mighty Ford XY Falcon GTHO Phase 3 down the quater mile, 14.1 sec compared to 14.4 for the big falcon.
But the falcon did have a far superior top end perfomance, the Charger was plagued by poor handlering due to it torsion bar suspension which was prehistoric compared to the modern wish bone suspension used in the falcon, because of this the charger was unpopular with race drivers but it did often manage to give falcon and torana drivers a bit of a scare on straight sections of race track.
The charger was the only car in the the 70's bathurst supercar trio which included the 1971 Ford XY Falcon GTHO Phase 3 and the LJ GTR XU1 Torana, that did not claim victory at Bathurst.
It is because of this and the decline in popularity of the Hardtop body shape(Chryslers sedans where unpopular because they were too "American") that saw Chrysler dissappear from the Australian market in 1981 when Chrysler Australia was bought out by the Mitsubishi corporation .

 

[Stumps]

oops here is the link to the charger http://members.optushome.com.au/iroc-z/oz/oz1.html

 

[Stumps]

Other mentionable aussie muscle cars are the SLR 5000 and A9X torana's manufactured by GMH between 1974 and 1979.
The SLR was a 5 litre (308cu) powered torana sedan, which in road form was a rough old dog of a car with breathtaking straight line grunt but let down in the brakes and suspension departement as the LH-LX torana's where original designed for a 1.8litre 4 cylinder.
GMH later fitted 2.85 and 3.3 litre six cylinders which worked expectionally well, but for the bathurst boys, the SLR5000 was released, it featured a GMH 308cu V8 fitted with a Rochester 4v carb, L34 big valve heads, an M21 4spd. this made for a lightweight monster that was equal to the mighty Ford XA falcon GT RPO 83 which was used as the basis for the 1973-74 Bathurst Falcon after the Phase 4 was cancelled.
The A9X torana was based on the LX torana Hatchback and was even more refined than the SLR, it dominated the ATCC during 1978-79 when it's only competition was the Ford XC Falcon Cobra 5.8litre.
The XC was a fine car but it was heavy and the heavily emisioned 5.8litre Cleveland V8 did not have the bite it had in earlier falcons, it only produced around 240bhp as opposed to the A9X's 280bhp from it's 5litre.
This marked a sad end to the Falcon Hardtop and the GT, insurance companies and the greenies saw aussie V8's all but dissappear for the next 10 yrs.

The last of the big ford V8's where the XD and XE fairmont ESP(European Sports Pack) from 1981-82, these cars had the last 400 cleveland V8's fitted to them, they where impressive preformers as the XD and XE where a lot lighter than their predecessors and a refined engine gave low 15 sec 1/4 miles, while adding many luxery options that where only found on BMW's and Mercedes benz at the time.
The ESP Fairmont's where a classy and powerful end to the ford V8 which did not return until 1992 in the EB XR8 Falcon and EB Falcon GT.

GMH did continue it's V8 line during the 1980's with it commodore range, but these where pathetic attemps, with a 111kw 4.2litre (253cu) and 127Kw 5.0litrw (308cu, later in 1984 it became the 304cu so it could be used in the Group A racing class).

Peter Brock a well known race driver developed his own line of commodores known as the "Brock specials" these were a refinement of the GMH product that allowed the commodore to be entered in the ATCC.
Power output varied between models ranging from 160kw in the HDT VC commodore, 177KW in the VH Group 3 and 194kw in the VK Group A.
The last brock special was the 1987 VL Group A, this had a heavily emisioned unleaded 304cu which produced only 134kw, but tensions between Brock and the GMH management saw the mighty Brockies come to an end in late 1987.

 

[Stumps]

Chrysler Australia released during the late 60's the Valiant Pacer, which was a 6 cylinder sedan which featured a 2bbl 245cu or 4bbl 265cu engine with a 3 on the tree manual gearbox and nice paint work with black racing stripes, it was quick in a straight line but it was very thirsty and suffered from fuel surging when racing because the carburretor was mounted 90 degrees from it's normal position(it was mounted sideways with the fuel bowls running left to right instead of front to back) this cause bad surging problems under cornering so to correct the problem race mechanics enriched the mixtures, this gave the pacer appauling fuel economy when compared to the 351cu windor V8 used in the 1969 XW falcon GTHO and the 186cu inline 6 with triple stromberg carbs used in the LC torana, the cars that it competed with, the pacer is considered an "also ran" as it like all of Chryslers cars did not acheive victory at bathurst.


2 door Pacer
http://www.chargerclubofwa.asn.au/VisitorsCars/vgpacer.htm

 

[Stumps]

this is the car that started the Aussie muscle car scene..the 1967 Ford XR Falcon GT, it is powered by a 225hp 4BBL 289cu (4.6litre) V8 and has a ford Top loader 4 speed Gearbox, it only came in one colour..GT Gold, it was based on the Police Intercepter that was being built for the Victorian Highway patrol.

its peformance is:
1/4mile - 16.8sec
Top speed - 125mph

http://www.grandtourer.com.au/public/re...s/ViewImage.asp?EntityID=331#bodystart

 

[SuperSix]

Nice to see some Buick V6 Turbo love here!

I think we can clear this up - American musclecars. (Maybe Aussie too - they loved displacement in that era as much as we did)

Some say the Buick Turbo V6 was the last American muscle car.
By some definitions, it's not, as it's a turbocharged V6, and gets decent fuel economy. The factory brakes DO suck though.

1987 - 245RWHP - 355ft/lbs torque. - "World's fastest production car" - ran 13.4 @ 104 bone stock on pump gas. With 1k in mods, it's easy to be in the mid 12's, w/2k, high 11's are very possible.

Due to insurance industry pressure, and the fact the Corvette division was VERY pissed they didn't have the fastest car in GM's stable, the advertised HP/TQ ratings were taken at the rear wheels, so add ~30% (drivetrain loss) to that number and compare them

I guess they were the WRX's of their day, very advanced. distributor-less ignition (some cars are in the 9's with the stock ignition system), sequential (not batch or multiport which is used on 99% of FI cars), Turbo Regal-specific quick-ratio steering, valve bodies (were also used on the MOnte SS of the same era), Garret intercooler, 15PSI factory boost (20lbs is possible with stock heads and tuning), and more.

The "holy grail" of Buick turbo cars is the 1987 GNX, with only 547 being made. They were modified by ASC McClaren. They had even more high-tech (for 1987) goodies in them, a ceramic impeller turbo, advanced panhard rod rear suspension, functional fender vents, complete SW aftermarket guage cluster..

The average sale price on one now is at least 40k! Ebay

The same motor was used in the 89 Turbo Trans Am, and it is/was the only car to ever pace indy with no modifications.

I love my 2 Turbo Buicks, the resale is going through the roof!

Interesting pages:
http://www.impactsites2000.com/autozone/buick_gsx.htm
http://www.buickstreet.com/buickstories.html#thegrandnationalandgnxstory

Oh.. and the 86/87 Monte Carlo SS was a dog in comparison, with a carb'd 305 making ~180hp..

 

[imported_walt]

Buick GN was a hot car, I think Car & Driver got 0-60 in 4.6 seconds. Sensational in the mid to late 80s, and not bad today. That GM policy of having the Corvette as top performer really messed things up.

Buick GSX

I think someone mentioned this earlier? Not sure, but the Super Duty Trans Ams were pretty hot. Shame the motor never got put in the 1973 GTO.:frown:

73' SD 455 T/A

74' SD 455 T/A

 

[Stumps]

After the much loved Peter Brock left GMH, a new division was formed known as Holden Special Vehicles or HSV.
The first car they produced was the 1987 HSV VL commodore SS Group A SV or "The Walkinshaw" as it is more commonly known, named so because of it's designer Tom Walkinshaw.
It was based on the VL SL Commodore but ran the first Australian made EFI V8, the much loved 304cu Group A engine which produced 180kw, it was mated the the Borg Warner(BTR) T5 5 speed manual, it gave low 14sec 1/4 mile times, which is pretty good for a 1400kg+ car.
It is often called the "Plastic Pig" or the "Tupperware Tourer" because of the huge body kit it ran.
The car was a poor seller but was fantastic on the race track, claiming victory at bathurst in 1990 despite competing against cars like the GTR Skyline and the Ford Serria which were far superior cars.
The VL was superseded by the 1990 VN SS Group A which followed a similar formula and had similar performance, it introduced the first 6 speed gearbox to an Australian made car, and was powered by a beefed up 304 V8.
The VL and the VN group A's were the last true Australian muscle car that were built for homolagation to qualify for the ATCC. after 1992 a standised class was introduced and limited run "race" cars were no longer allowed.
Now we have the ever so boring V8 supercar class which has nothing in common with "real" cars other than the badge on the bootlid.

The VL http://www.walkinshaw.net/originals/originals.html

The VN http://www.australianmusclecarsales.com.au/sales/hsv_vn_group_a_ss_commodore_n

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: walt


Does anyone here like muscle cars? I think the old Mustangs look cool, also the new 2005 retro one.

1969 Mustang Super Boss 429

Firebird

Dodge Charger R/T

If I had the cash, I could having one or 20 as a toy or a collection. But I would not want one as my only car.

 

[yhelothar]

Nice cars, but they're ugly as hell.
Don't understand what you guys see in them.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
Nice cars, but they're ugly as hell.
Don't understand what you guys see in them.

I feel the same way about the Asian Imports. Sure there are a few good looking one but most are generic looking and have that weird Japanese styling.

 

[czech09]

Muscle Cars are awesome the 05 stang is not .

 

[Stumps]

I second that one, it's hard to tell most jap cars apart from each other and they sound terrible, while a few jap cars are cool, mainly the Skyline,Supra and RX-7, as well as few other, most look the same, they have no character and lack that..umm whats the word i am looking for..PRESENCE, when you drive a muscle car people around you know that your car is powerful, when you are in a buzz box, you look like every other 17-18yr old with a hair dyrer powered car.

 

[Stumps]

These cars are the new breed of aussie muscle cars.
the Ford BA Falcon GT and GTP and Holden VZ monaro. these car follow the traditional muscle car formula of max grunt/big cubes and rear wheel drive.

Falcon GT
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~ljday/images/falcongt2003.jpg

GMH VZ Monaro

http://www.seriouswheels.com/2004/2004-...-VZ-Monaro-Blue-FA-Studio-1280x960.htm

 

[MasterAndCommander]

Originally posted by: czech09
Muscle Cars are awesome the 05 stang is not .

Yup...with sales up 32% this year, it's ice cold

 

[SupaDupaCheez]

These are currently in my 'stables':

'66 Chevelle SS/396 and '70 Chevelle Malibu 350

'69 Camaro Convertible Pace Car Z11 350 (RS/SS + Z11 package)

All are what they are.....no BS.

SDC

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: Stumps
I second that one, it's hard to tell most jap cars apart from each other and they sound terrible, while a few jap cars are cool, mainly the Skyline,Supra and RX-7, as well as few other, most look the same, they have no character and lack that..umm whats the word i am looking for..PRESENCE, when you drive a muscle car people around you know that your car is powerful, when you are in a buzz box, you look like every other 17-18yr old with a hair dyrer powered car.

Attention Whore?
Interior is shiit.
Guess what, it's hard to tell most muscle cars apart from each other either, and they sound terrible. The sound is just screaming attention whore. It's almost as bad as the 16-17yr old with fartcan ricers.

each to their own anyways.

 

[Stumps]

Muscle cars sound terrible? how can you tell when you have your head so far up your ass the only thing you can hear is bowel movements.
there is nothing better than the delicous rumble of hot V8 and if you have difficulty telling muscle cars apart then you shouldn't be looking in the first place

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: Stumps
I second that one, it's hard to tell most jap cars apart from each other and they sound terrible, while a few jap cars are cool, mainly the Skyline,Supra and RX-7, as well as few other, most look the same, they have no character and lack that..umm whats the word i am looking for..PRESENCE, when you drive a muscle car people around you know that your car is powerful, when you are in a buzz box, you look like every other 17-18yr old with a hair dyrer powered car.

Attention Whore?
Interior is shiit.
Guess what, it's hard to tell most muscle cars apart from each other either,

Yeah if you are clueless

and they sound terrible. The sound is just screaming attention whore. It's almost as bad as the 16-17yr old with fartcan ricers.

each to their own anyways.

The sound of a Muscle Cars engine = Heay Metal

A Japanese import = Abba

 

[radioouman]

I love muscle cars. I had a Barracuda and a Duster while I was in college. I sold them when I got married.