muscle cars

[BadNewsBears]

Originally posted by: Rockhound

Originally posted by: styrafoam

Originally posted by: Rockhound
1969 Pontiac Trans AM

1969 Pontiac Trans AM Convertible

Convertible - only 10 of these were ever made!!!

The Ram Air IV TAs are probably my all time favorite car.

1973 Trans AM SD 455

Another hot one!

Real Sd's are SOOOOOOOO rare. Alot of people think if they have a pontiac 455 its an SD. The real ones are like kegs of beer just waiting to be tapped. Some higher ratio rockers and different pistons can make 500 hp just by itself

 

[MrYAK]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: MrYAK

Originally posted by: Prong
I'll take this one.

This is my dream car *drool* but with a 427 instead =D

My dad was telling me that his senior year in HS (1970) he sold all his pigs, like 10-20 head of them, to by this car brand new strait off the lot for only $2000. granted back then that was a good amount of money. but it was still cheaper back then then it is now.

What does a pig go for nowadays? :laugh:MFAO!!!

lol, well i didnt mean thats all he had to do to buy the car. but it depends on how big/much they weigh, what shape they are in, age, just depends on what the buyer is looking for out of them. but if its a meat plant, they will give you a cut price for xx for how ever many head they want.

 

[Iron Woode]

check out these pics:

http://www.cardomain.com/id/steamedricers

 

[sniperruff]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: sniperruff

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: sniperruff
stop arguing. anything that is NOT american CANNOT be a muscle car. anything WITHOUT A V8 cannot be a muscle car.

call them factory tuner or whatever. but the term "muscle car" is exclusive to cars with lots of power, drink fuel like crazy, and most have brakes that don't work.

Okay fine. I can live with that. :laugh:

i'd say muscle car is like juggernaut from x-man. it's butch, it's crude, it's raw. but somehow you can't help it but think that it's cool.

i guess you have to be more grown up to appreciate muscle cars. cars are not all about turbo changers and 22-inch chromes and NOS and shogun body kits and underbody neon lights...

Hey, I'm 37 years old. I grew up drooling over muscle cars and I've even owned a couple. There is no fvcking way I'd ever put 22-inch chromes, NOS, body kits or underbody neon lights on any car I own either. Hell, I wish the STi didn't have that cop magnet spoiler on it.

i'm not saying that you're a little kid or anything like that. it's just that cars these days are so hyped up by rappers and movies, that people have the illusion that putting a body kit and some large rims on a car means performance...

and i do like the Sti too, but still, it doesn't have the unique style that muscle cars have. i'd just say the older cars have "soul" in them, but the new ones are just not the same.

 

[EvilYoda]

wow, still going. wish I had the patience to read all the bitching.

 

[Toastedlightly]

Well... to swing this thread back on topic a little.. how about muscle trucks of the 70s? Those were the fun times (I like those more than the cars). Turned worse, flipped easier, but they didn't get choked til 80!

Go Red Express and Warlock!

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: sniperruff

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: sniperruff

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: sniperruff
stop arguing. anything that is NOT american CANNOT be a muscle car. anything WITHOUT A V8 cannot be a muscle car.

call them factory tuner or whatever. but the term "muscle car" is exclusive to cars with lots of power, drink fuel like crazy, and most have brakes that don't work.

Okay fine. I can live with that. :laugh:

i'd say muscle car is like juggernaut from x-man. it's butch, it's crude, it's raw. but somehow you can't help it but think that it's cool.

i guess you have to be more grown up to appreciate muscle cars. cars are not all about turbo changers and 22-inch chromes and NOS and shogun body kits and underbody neon lights...

Hey, I'm 37 years old. I grew up drooling over muscle cars and I've even owned a couple. There is no fvcking way I'd ever put 22-inch chromes, NOS, body kits or underbody neon lights on any car I own either. Hell, I wish the STi didn't have that cop magnet spoiler on it.

i'm not saying that you're a little kid or anything like that. it's just that cars these days are so hyped up by rappers and movies, that people have the illusion that putting a body kit and some large rims on a car means performance...

and i do like the Sti too, but still, it doesn't have the unique style that muscle cars have. i'd just say the older cars have "soul" in them, but the new ones are just not the same.

Oh goody...here we go with with the whole "soul" thing.

Someone please define automotive "soul" for me so that the next time I'm in the market for a car I know what to look for.

 

I don't even have to read this thread to know that some little wanker boys came in and started blabbing about some new small cars that go fast.

 

[jjessico]

OnTopic:
Yes, I love musclecars. I can't wait to take out my 70 Barracuda as soon as the weather turns nice up here in MN. Maybe this year I'll have some money to make some changes to the drivetrain.

OffTopic:
All this bitching about import vs musclecar is crap. Some cars are faster than others, blah blah (insert stupid argument one way or the other here). The only way to find out if its true or not is to line them up. All the bench racing in the world won't prove jack shit, so there is no sense arguing.

With that said, anyone who wants to see real muscle car performance should head out to Brainerd International Raceway (Brainerd, MN) this summer for either Show & Go or Muscle Car Shootout. (a writeup for MCS04)

Out of probably the threat of getting sued they have a Import/4 category for Muscle Car Shootout. Last year nothing in that class could keep up with 80% of the stuff in the Stock Eliminator (SE/2) class. Needless to say nothing in Import/4 could keep up with anything in the more serious muscle car classes.

 

[Brutuskend]

My last muscle car

Damn but I miss that car.

I also used to own a 1965 Olds 442.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: Iron Woode
You have singled out a few high powered imports and then try to make it sound like all imports are racecars, they ain't.

On average, the good old musclecars were faster than 98% of todays cars.

As for the 283 chevelle crap; wtf? SS was a trim option and had nothing to do with HP. A 396 chevelle was a fast car. A 383 Road Runner was a fast car. A 283 chevelle was a vehicle to go to work in.

Fast is relative too. Most classic roadtests look crappy. Why? Try hooking up 400+ lb ft of torque with bias ply tires that are 7 inches across. Tire technology wasn't up to specs back then. These cars had restrictive air intakes and exhausts because they had to comply with regulations. This kills performance.

Modernize the cars a bit with real tires, shocks and better exhausts and air filtres and you will be very surprised at the difference. I have seen nearly stock musclecars pull .89 on a skid pad. That's better than most new cars today.

Most of the times I've seen floating around the net for old cars don't show a disproportionate trap speed vs ET, which is the true mark of traction limiting a run.

Also your qualifiers cut both ways. If you retune an STI or EVO, CAFE, cats/emissions, noise be damned, you could probably get another 50 WHP easy if not more.

Not to mention fuel. 108 octane gas is not available anymore for these car's 13:1 compression. Each point in compression is worth 4% horsepower.

Weight is also a factor. Imports weigh less than 3000 lbs. The average musclecar weighs 3800+ lbs.

You cannot directly compare them unless things are equallized.

Oh also, weight is factor for modern cars too, delete the side crash reinforcements, airbags, etc. to make it fair.

I don't really think common muscle cars are all that fast really. I've seen them at the dragstrip and 14 sec, 15 sec cars are nothing special. Once at the dragstrip, I saw an accord V6 pull up next to some fully restored classic chevy, no clue what it was. Announcer said it was a 58 something, kept calling out the accord, "honda has his work cut out for him", blah blah. They both ran high 15s.

I'm sure you're thinking you can dig up some 10 sec, super limited run to beat stock racing rules muscle car, but you can do the same for some nismo skyline or whatever.

 

[jjessico]

Ok. The bitching obviously won't stop, so here are some actual numbers instead of people just pulling ETs out of their collective a$$es.

If you head over to Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag Race you can see Results From Past Races.

These are all 'Muscle Cars' and have to pass very strict rules on being Pure Stock.

So that is some insight into how fast Muscle Cars truley are.

Also available, because I'm a nice guy, is a list of muscle car ET times as tested by popular magazines. Sources are cited. The full list is available HERE.

On a side note, I don't know why I'm bothering to post this stuff. No one will read it and if they do, they probably won't care. So sad.

 

[RGN]

I have an '04 GTO. So yeah, I like muscle cars.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: jjessico
Ok. The bitching obviously won't stop, so here are some actual numbers instead of people just pulling ETs out of their collective a$$es.

If you head over to Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag Race you can see Results From Past Races.

These are all 'Muscle Cars' and have to pass very strict rules on being Pure Stock.

So that is some insight into how fast Muscle Cars truley are.

Also available, because I'm a nice guy, is a list of muscle car ET times as tested by popular magazines. Sources are cited. The full list is available HERE.

On a side note, I don't know why I'm bothering to post this stuff. No one will read it and if they do, they probably won't care. So sad.

I read it. And appreciate your posting.

"Surgeon General never said you couldn't smoke a V8" :laugh:

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: jjessico
Ok. The bitching obviously won't stop, so here are some actual numbers instead of people just pulling ETs out of their collective a$$es.

If you head over to Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag Race you can see Results From Past Races.

These are all 'Muscle Cars' and have to pass very strict rules on being Pure Stock.

So that is some insight into how fast Muscle Cars truley are.

Also available, because I'm a nice guy, is a list of muscle car ET times as tested by popular magazines. Sources are cited. The full list is available HERE.

On a side note, I don't know why I'm bothering to post this stuff. No one will read it and if they do, they probably won't care. So sad.

You're right. I don't care.

2005 Subaru WRX-STi

0-60: 4.7 seconds
1/4 mile: 13.3@103mph
60-0 braking: 112 ft
Speed through slalom: 69+mph

I'd like to see a vintage muscle car stop in 112 ft from 60 mph. Or handle like this car.

 

[essasin]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: jjessico
Ok. The bitching obviously won't stop, so here are some actual numbers instead of people just pulling ETs out of their collective a$$es.

If you head over to Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag Race you can see Results From Past Races.

These are all 'Muscle Cars' and have to pass very strict rules on being Pure Stock.

So that is some insight into how fast Muscle Cars truley are.

Also available, because I'm a nice guy, is a list of muscle car ET times as tested by popular magazines. Sources are cited. The full list is available HERE.

On a side note, I don't know why I'm bothering to post this stuff. No one will read it and if they do, they probably won't care. So sad.

You're right. I don't care.

2005 Subaru WRX-STi

0-60: 4.7 seconds
1/4 mile: 13.3@103mph
60-0 braking: 112 ft
Speed through slalom: 69+mph

I'd like to see a vintage muscle car stop in 112 ft from 60 mph. Or handle like this car.

But i think the point is you can't replace the nostalga of driving these musele cars. We own a 67 stingray, 69 stang, and I used to drive an STI. The sti does haul ass but nothing beats the torque and the bruteness of these big blocks.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: essasin

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: jjessico
Ok. The bitching obviously won't stop, so here are some actual numbers instead of people just pulling ETs out of their collective a$$es.

If you head over to Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag Race you can see Results From Past Races.

These are all 'Muscle Cars' and have to pass very strict rules on being Pure Stock.

So that is some insight into how fast Muscle Cars truley are.

Also available, because I'm a nice guy, is a list of muscle car ET times as tested by popular magazines. Sources are cited. The full list is available HERE.

On a side note, I don't know why I'm bothering to post this stuff. No one will read it and if they do, they probably won't care. So sad.

You're right. I don't care.

2005 Subaru WRX-STi

0-60: 4.7 seconds
1/4 mile: 13.3@103mph
60-0 braking: 112 ft
Speed through slalom: 69+mph

I'd like to see a vintage muscle car stop in 112 ft from 60 mph. Or handle like this car.

But i think the point is you can't replace the nostalga of driving these musele cars. We own a 67 stingray, 69 stang, and I used to drive an STI. The sti does haul ass but nothing beats the torque and the bruteness of these big blocks.

A well rounded stable...too bad you gave up the STi though. It's a great car!

 

[jjessico]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: jjessico
Ok. The bitching obviously won't stop, so here are some actual numbers instead of people just pulling ETs out of their collective a$$es.

If you head over to Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag Race you can see Results From Past Races.

These are all 'Muscle Cars' and have to pass very strict rules on being Pure Stock.

So that is some insight into how fast Muscle Cars truley are.

Also available, because I'm a nice guy, is a list of muscle car ET times as tested by popular magazines. Sources are cited. The full list is available HERE.

On a side note, I don't know why I'm bothering to post this stuff. No one will read it and if they do, they probably won't care. So sad.

You're right. I don't care.

2005 Subaru WRX-STi

0-60: 4.7 seconds
1/4 mile: 13.3@103mph
60-0 braking: 112 ft
Speed through slalom: 69+mph

I'd like to see a vintage muscle car stop in 112 ft from 60 mph. Or handle like this car.

You must not be familiar with the Pro Touring style of Muscle Cars that are floating around these days. Big disc brakes on all 4 wheels as well as some suspension mods make some very powerful muscle cars into great handlers and stoppers.

As for what matters more in car, well I've never seen two people pull up to a stoplight and challenge each other to make a few laps around the town square.

 

[jjessico]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus


A well rounded stable...too bad you gave up the STi though. It's a great car!

No one is really questioning that. An STi is "fun", "quick", "smart", "advanced", and "crafty"; however, its not "tear your face off powerful".

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Here's the thing about muscle cars.

Today's version of the muscle cars, from domestic entries like the 'Stang, GTO, Viper, 300C, Magnum to the Japanese versions like the STi, EVO, etc.. are better in every way than their predecessors. They are faster, handle better, more comfortable (thats debatable right Ornery?), and are more reliable.

But here's the catch, those old muscle cars have a little something that these new cars don't, not yet anyway. Maybe its the sound of the big block idling, or that sexy fastback look, whatever it was, its from that era; from that time when it was liberating to drive those cars. And I'm sure folks in those days said those Challengers and GTOs didn't compare to the rat rods and Ford roadsters they used to have in the 30s. It's just a perpeuating cycle.

The current crop of performance cars don't feel that way to us, simply because we are used to having high horsepower cars around. Apart from that, we just relate to them differently than we do to muscle cars.

30 years from now, we will reminicse about the STi or EVO and tell our kids that they don't em like they used to.

 

[Stumps]

yep i sure do, my favorite is the 1969 ford mustang Mach1 with the 428CJ, my favorite aussie muscle car is the 1972 Ford XA falcon GTHO Phase 4, only 4 were made, 3 racing prototypes and one production model, they are the rarest and most expesive aussie muscle car.
They where powered by a 4v 351cu Cleveland V8 rated at around 400-450hp (depending on what you believe as no real perfomance figures exsist but the previous phase 3 model was rated at 390hp and the Phase 4 is a far superior car in every aspect), 4spd ford toploader Gearbox and 3.00:1 ford 9 incher fitted with detroit locker internals. most tend to believe that this car was capable of high 13, really low 14 second quarter mile and a top speed in excess of 173mph (the engine was capable of being reved to 7700rpm in top gear in the race version), this car sparked the super car scare during the 1970's in australia which saw massive drops in car performance for the next 10yrs, the sydney morning herald printed the following article in 1972 "BULLETS ON WHEELS" which out lined the new aussie sedans capable of speeds in excess of 160mph, once the polititians got hold of it, it was the end for the 3 "BATHURST" specials that where being produced by Ford, GMH and Chrysler

 

[imported_walt]

I miss the old hot intermediates, big two doors often with four on the floor and rear drive. So sad when many of those old nameplates went front drive.

1973 Grand Am 400/455 4 speed

455 HO Grand Prix SJ

77' Can Am W72 400

 

[Stumps]

the Phase 4 is valued at AU$250000 thats a big jump from the AU$5199 back in 1972 and that was with the QC engine option

 

[imported_walt]

The Aussie cars are pretty interesting. I like the Pontiac wheels and "350" decal on this white car.

1971 Holden Monaro 350

Traditional muscle.

62' Bel Air 409, 4 speed & dual 4 bbl

1970 Ford Torino King Cobra "Cobra Jet 429"

 

[Stumps]

Ah the good ole HQ monaro, they were not much of a muscle car, the 350 chev in them was only rated at 250hp when compared the the GT falcon which had 300hp and the GTHO falcon's which were rated at beyond 350hp for the Phase 2, 3 and 4 model, at the time of the HQ GMH had another muscle car the LJ Torana GTR XU1, rated at around 230hp, it featured a triple carb 3.3 six cylinder, with a M21 4spd, being about 400kg lighter than the HQ it was the only Holden that was a match for the Mighty GTHO phase 3 falcon at Bathurst, and even beat it in 1972, it was light nimble and the six could be reved beyond 8000rpm, the only real draw back was high fuel consumption and regular tuning, but it is a good looking coupe and it goes like the wind, the monaro was nothing more than boat with wheels, they looked good but handled like crap, especially when compared with the big falcon which was at least 10yrs ahead of it's time and is still a magnificant car to drive, I have had the pleasur of racing against a 1971 Ford XY Falcon Phase 3(which is a $150000 ledgend) and even though I did beat it, it was breathtaking to watch the King in action..the sound..the sight..the PRESENCE, it was a beast, if only I could find a Phase 4 to race